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Heroes Community > Heroes 3.5 - WoG and Beyond > Thread: ERM help and discussion
Thread: ERM help and discussion This Popular Thread is 407 pages long: 1 50 100 150 200 ... 236 237 238 239 240 ... 250 300 350 400 407 · «PREV / NEXT»
bloodsucker
bloodsucker


Legendary Hero
posted October 21, 2014 04:03 AM
Edited by bloodsucker at 05:04, 21 Oct 2014.

Salamandre said:
If you show me a screen of the error, then I know where to look.

You don't expect me to check and test every line of this script, which would take me several hours, just because you think there may be some error nobody reported until now.


I awsered this in the previous post.

I came to think that my commands that have some asteriscs or other comment tecnic before them are still processed, is this true?

Ex:
*** !!HE-1:F2d/d/d/d; [this will still had 2 to the current heroes attack] - if so how can I comment the lines of code I'm still working on while debugging?

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Siegfried
Siegfried


Famous Hero
posted October 21, 2014 05:59 AM

bloodsucker said:

I came to think that my commands that have some asteriscs or other comment tecnic before them are still processed, is this true?

Ex:
*** !!HE-1:F2d/d/d/d; [this will still had 2 to the current heroes attack] - if so how can I comment the lines of code I'm still working on while debugging?


*biggrin* Yes, this is true. If you want to comment those lines out, you have to _replace_ those two !! with **. So from:

!!HE-1:F2d/d/d/d;

make

**HE-1:F2d/d/d/d;

This is why you can f.ex. start a code line with blanks (insert a block of code after an !!if:. It is simply so that any characters before the start of the code are ignored. The code starts with those 2 !! and some 2-letter mnemonic, whereever in the line is it. And it is terminated then with the semikilon.

And you can put 2 commands in 1 line for the same reason.
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Siegfried
Siegfried


Famous Hero
posted October 21, 2014 06:09 AM

Salamandre said:
Could you please upload a package with:

a) a few of the objects you want to use from fred's patch (def+msk+msg for each)
b) details about what type/subtype to give them (yet only subtype may be considered, if you add new types, editor will not recognize)

I will try to make a correct mod and objects list from it, so at least we are sure if it does not work, is not because invalid data. If it works, then you add the remaining objects.


I did not change anything other in the FREDOBJ mod than this FREDOBJ.txt. So you can simply install that mod and replace the FREDOBJ.txt.

But: This is exactly what i tried: I gave 3 of the objects another type, and i gave them a brand new type of 300. And the editor recognized it. That was exactly what i was trying. It was an experiment to see if this would be possible. And it is possible, although the editor complains with an error message. But it is still possible to place the object. And the game itself shows the object but ignores it otherwise. This is perfect for this way those objects can be scripted with erm without any default behaviour interfering.

On the other hand i found many pure decorative objects in the original data that all have their own object type. That is pure waste of object types. A simple cactus does not need an object type of its own. All those objects could have type 40 (decorative object) as long as you don't want to script them or place them or somehow else want to cope with them with erm. Renumbering those objects would free up dozens of object types, which then also could be given proper names. This is something to think about.
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fred79
fred79


Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
posted October 21, 2014 06:36 AM

i've been renaming/grouping objects myself, for my own lod. i really saw no reason why there would be 2 sets of the same object names(log, rock, lake...log, rock, lake)it just takes up unnecessary room. this is all without scripting, though. just simply renaming objects.

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bloodsucker
bloodsucker


Legendary Hero
posted October 21, 2014 08:34 AM

Some days ago I reported that if I (correctly) changed the specialty of an hero to something else that change was unstable and battle trigers would often (but not always!!!) revert them to the previous specialty.
I came to notice that doesn't happen when I use Nagash, Jedite or Gem and they all suffered alterations in Wog (change of specialties and change of starting spell) so I think there is some messure I should take that is not mentioned in the help about changing specialty. Do you know what it is?

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Siegfried
Siegfried


Famous Hero
posted October 21, 2014 09:19 AM

fred79 said:
i've been renaming/grouping objects myself, for my own lod. i really saw no reason why there would be 2 sets of the same object names(log, rock, lake...log, rock, lake)it just takes up unnecessary room. this is all without scripting, though. just simply renaming objects.


I think this would be really useful. And luckily it does not ruin any existing map, because existing maps keep their object numbers and flags as they are.

I'd just go one step further. Why should a lake be named lake? Why not simply name it "decorative object"? You only would need a lake to be a "lake" (i.e. distinguishable from other objects) if you want to add a special function to it. Other than that there is no need for any decorative object to be anything other than exactly that: A decorative object. This would free up about 50 object types which could be used for scripted objects. That is a lot.

I think this evening i'll do another test with one of the special terrain patches. I'll give them object type 50, which is blank. If i could then get it as topmost terrain overlay with erm, then all of these patches could be added some erm to add some functionality. If it is not possible then i revert them all to "decorative object" again. That would mean that other than being decorative they would be useless.
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bloodsucker
bloodsucker


Legendary Hero
posted October 21, 2014 08:51 PM
Edited by bloodsucker at 05:27, 22 Oct 2014.

As things are going I have about two thousand lines of reusable code and close to ten objects.
The idea of automaticaly place objects on the map is gainning consistence but there is a problem: some of this objects must appear only once and in player's starting area. I don't have the slightest idea of how to accomplish that. Any sugestions would be welcome.

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fred79
fred79


Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
posted October 21, 2014 10:47 PM
Edited by fred79 at 22:49, 21 Oct 2014.

@ siegfried: that's a good idea. i don't like the term "decorative object", though; it sounds too manufactured, instead of natural. i think the term "flora" could cover all plants, "fauna" could cover all animals(not creatures you fight, but decorative animals), and rocks, hills, and mountains could stay(unless you have a better word that could properly unite all of them). i don't have any ideas for lakes or ponds, either.

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bloodsucker
bloodsucker


Legendary Hero
posted October 22, 2014 12:27 AM
Edited by bloodsucker at 05:27, 22 Oct 2014.

fred79 said:
@ siegfried: that's a good idea. i don't like the term "decorative object", though; it sounds too manufactured, instead of natural. i think the term "flora" could cover all plants, "fauna" could cover all animals(not creatures you fight, but decorative animals), and rocks, hills, and mountains could stay(unless you have a better word that could properly unite all of them). i don't have any ideas for lakes or ponds, either.


I would like to know what this has to do with ERM...

1. If I write this:

!?TM2&$day$=1/$once$=1;
!!FU45321:P;

!?FU45321;
!!OW:R-1/0/d15;
!!OW:R-1/1/d10;
!!OW:R-1/2/d15;
!!OW:R-1/3/d10;
!!OW:R-1/4/d10;
!!OW:R-1/5/d70;
!!OW:R-1/6/d15000;

I recieve the resources but they don't show in the screen until I do some other action. For me it's ok, I know they are there, it was me who put them but if I will ever think of publish it as a mod it would be good to refresh it but I don't have any idea how it can be done.

2. Can someone please explain to me (like I was a 4 years child) why this line I was so proud of don't even let the game start (even if it is encapsulated with in an object)?

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Siegfried
Siegfried


Famous Hero
posted October 22, 2014 07:17 AM

bloodsucker said:

I would like to know what this has to do with ERM...




It would free up many object numbers to be used with erm.
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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted October 22, 2014 08:33 AM

To free, how? Those objects need their types in order to be placed by the random generator.

But you can switch those objects (depending on size, passability) with fred's terrains, then create own mod, then get a rather different random map. it is not a real problem to find on which terrain battle is taking place, as you can, after placing them manually, create an unique algorithm for each, then store virtually the terrain properties in PO vars.

But you can't just "free" types then expect the "fauna, flora, lakes" or whatever to still remain functional. Random generator does never place "decorative objects".
____________
Era II mods and utilities

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bloodsucker
bloodsucker


Legendary Hero
posted October 22, 2014 09:16 AM

I did it, I changed the SAs and MGs to Stronghold and made them neutral to match with Enchanters and other possible addictions like Sharpshooters or War Zealots. To substitute them I've put Artic Sharpshooters upgrading to Sorceress in Tower and (cause this map doesn't have Confluxes) Firebirds/Phoenix in Castle.
One hundread times I've asked for sugestions on how to make other creatures have AAs, MGs and Enchanters habilities with no awser so I guess Castle will no longer have a Resurrection creature. I've changed Thane in to a Offense Specialist with Offense and Intelligence and Yona into a Sorceress Specialist with Archery and Intelligence. I've also made Torosar a Titan's specialist with Archery and Tactics and for Castle I turned Rion in an Phoenix Grand Master with +5A +5def +10Dam, Wisdom and Armourer. Guess they will all be trashed by Leaders but did it anyway.

I still didn't replaced the dwellings but I was thinking Lost Friar looked good in Castle, the Snow Covered Position fits Tower and Howling
Hollow and the Vast Cavern would work in Stronghold. I not sure about sizes and placement but I don't care to much about the looks for the moment.
But in the long thern it would be good have a creature for Castle, I was thinking in using the gorynyches ID but now I think maybe the best is to use Behemoths ID's (they got freed) and I have found some defs in the WogForum. If I knew how to make it work I could use Behemoths Id for Stronghold level four and give Castle the Ogres at level 7, giving them the resurrection spell instead of Bloodlust but for all I know this is impossible. So, I would like to ask if you see problems in this I was incapable of detect.

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fred79
fred79


Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
posted October 22, 2014 10:50 AM

Salamandre said:
To free, how? Those objects need their types in order to be placed by the random generator.

But you can't just "free" types then expect the "fauna, flora, lakes" or whatever to still remain functional. Random generator does never place "decorative objects".


i never use the random map generator. the terrain patches i make, are all best placed by hand, and layered over one another to achieve the look the map maker is going for. my best terrain patches are for multi-layering, and using your own aesthetic judgment will best place those.

in my opinion, the people who use the random map generator, are more concerned with playing the game, than designing maps. my object patch was designed specifically for people who design their own maps. if erm can be used to place anything, the more power to you. but i place everything on my maps by eye/hand(just like a tailor everything by eye/hand).

not knocking anyone, of course. to each their own.

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Siegfried
Siegfried


Famous Hero
posted October 22, 2014 01:05 PM

fred79 said:
Salamandre said:
To free, how? Those objects need their types in order to be placed by the random generator.

But you can't just "free" types then expect the "fauna, flora, lakes" or whatever to still remain functional. Random generator does never place "decorative objects".


i never use the random map generator.


Me too

But Salamandre is right, the random map generator is something to take into account. I'll think about it. Perhaps there is a possibility to renumber at least some of them and to use the other numbers for new but similar objects. But that would mean lots of testing, and testing with the RMG too. Much work to do. So maybe it is a better idea to give these new objects completely new numbers.
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fred79
fred79


Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
posted October 22, 2014 02:19 PM

makes sense. quick question: which names in the list are the random map generator; the 1st set, or the 2nd?

for instance, if the second set is attributed to the random map generator, then wouldn't the first set be able to be renamed?

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bloodsucker
bloodsucker


Legendary Hero
posted October 22, 2014 04:08 PM
Edited by bloodsucker at 23:02, 22 Oct 2014.

fred79 said:
in my opinion, the people who use the random map generator, are more concerned with playing the game, than designing maps. my object patch was designed specifically for people who design their own maps


And here we go again... IMHO the guy you are talking to has created some of the best, more original and beautiful maps I ever put my eyes on. Can u claim the same?
Maybe I'm just not recognizing your alias.
I use the ramdom map generator cause I'm more interested in changes in game playability then in looks - and because RMG seems to be more gifted then me to place objects in an harmonic way. I've designed a few H4 maps and looks are definively not their britest side...
I've downloaded and add to my map editor both yours and Salamandre's pack. Only one survived the test of time (two weeks). Guess what was it. Guess WHY was it.

@Salamandre

This is from Alexander

!#MA: C136/6/750 A136/17 D136/12 P136/30 S136/9 M136/14 E136/14 N136/32 G136/3 B136/0 R136/0 I136/1210 F136/805 L136/9 O136/0 X136/4116; Enchanter
!#MA: C143/6/100 A143/8 D143/3 P143/10 S143/6 M143/2 E143/4 N143/0 G143/15 B143/0 R143/0 I143/135 F143/135 L143/9 O143/0 X143/16; Rogue
!#MA: C169/6/600 A169/14 D169/10 P169/40 S169/8 M169/10 E169/12 N169/24 G169/2 B169/0 R169/0 I169/1000 F169/700 L169/9 O169/0 X169/4116; War Zealot
!#MA: C170/6/500 A170/13 D170/10 P170/15 S170/9 M170/8 E170/10 N170/32 G170/3 B170/0 R170/0 I170/700 F170/500 L170/9 O170/0 X170/1048596; Arctic Sharpshooter
!#MA: C171/6/500 A171/12 D171/11 P171/15 S171/9 M171/8 E171/10 N171/32 G171/10 B171/0 R171/0 I171/700 F171/500 L171/9 O171/0 X171/1048596; Lava Sharpshooter
!#MA: C172/6/1500 A172/15 D172/14 P172/110 S172/9 M172/18 E172/22 N172/0 G172/2 B172/0 R172/0 I172/2030 F172/1740 L172/9 O172/0 X172/132121; Nightmare

Questions:
1. What is MA:R (from manual "Monster # (Format C) has a Growth H of $.") whats the difference from MA:G ("Monster # (Format C) has a Grow rate of $.")?

2.You define things like MA:F (fight value) and MA:I (AI value), is it worth the trouble? Cause this is a fixed map with no week of and what I'm trying to do is a mod to use after RMG, assuming people (I will) will have selected week of monsters.

3.Some of those MA:X numbers are not document and are not binaary numbers, are u using the sum of bits u want to add? Isn't it unsafe?

4.I already found that 1048576 and 2097192 are both magic immunities of the dragon type, is there a number for the Immunity excluding benefical like used in EA?
 

--------
I'm thinking about a new Neutrals stack experience. Does this looks (logic/right/doable - insert your choice)?

Check if AI - if Yes exit

check control variable -> if True - give level 10 and exit
Stacks start at level 2
Timer cicles 7 days adds 1 level to stack experience per week, starting day one; if level 7/8 divide bonus levels by two rounded down.
if level >10 give 10 and set control variable to true

Apply this to summoned "neutrals get help" as well using EA:O;

----
If I got it right this and the EA defs I'm making will make random maps more abusive then TDS.

P.S. Level 7/8 is wrong, like that would always be level 2.

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fred79
fred79


Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
posted October 22, 2014 05:58 PM

bloodsucker said:
fred79 said:
in my opinion, the people who use the random map generator, are more concerned with playing the game, than designing maps. my object patch was designed specifically for people who design their own maps


And here we go again... IMHO the guy you are talking to has created some of the best, more original and beautiful maps I ever put my eyes on. Can u claim the same?


i'm not knocking anyone's maps, guy. i don't know why you're so offended/angered; nothing i have said is offensive or angering in the least. i'm just stating an opinion. i'm not going to argue over who has the best maps, either; because that would be both childish and stupid. this isn't a pissing contest here.

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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted October 22, 2014 06:10 PM

I was thinking Siegfried wants his mod to work with the random generator mainly. Because if not, I don't see any problem. If you design the map, you place Fred's terrains manually, then store corresponding squares in PO receiver and proceed any battle at those locations with desired bonuses/penalties; you don't even need new types/subtypes, as you know the locations in advance.

In general, all those struggles around adding new types is not worth IMO: wog is excellent at coding and giving any properties to the existing data, but wog is very weak when it comes to add new structures, creatures, objects types and such. There is a reason nobody could add a new town in wog, and is precisely this one.

Bloodsucker, that data is from my first codes, 2008 I think, and it was made with an automatic tool, I don't even recall the name.

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Mister_kalu
Mister_kalu


Known Hero
posted October 22, 2014 06:10 PM

Salamandre hello again, do you know how to get the hero spell points on any momment in the battle without the HE receiver? this for skip the bug of adventure screen

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Salamandre
Salamandre


Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
posted October 22, 2014 06:13 PM

Without HE receiver you can't. But there is no bug, what you mean?

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