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hobowu
Known Hero
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posted May 18, 2006 08:47 AM |
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Quote:
Don't forget that Kyrre also has archery skill and while Hack and Tazar struggle with their lame archers and with no archery, Kyrre and his elves will kick much more ***.
uhhh. kyrre is female as well...or maybe ur talking about ivor?
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hobowu
Known Hero
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posted May 18, 2006 08:49 AM |
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Edited by hobowu at 08:50, 18 May 2006.
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yeh i know... it's just that in tournaments pplz play at a lower difficulty... so... hydra time  , or maybe devil + force fields 
I don't know why people keep talking about "Devil + force field" and other crap like that. Try doing it once and you'll see why this idea is so stupid.
Hydra Time??? Dragons wait, wait, wait, last dragon stack attacks, dragons attack, attack, attack, you lose a hydra. End of story.
Everyone also likes to talk about "killing legions of golems with 1 devil". Well, try it and then tell me how well you do.
Btw, Kyrre will kick Tazar's and Hack's ass any time if the map is big enough. On early levels offense/defense specialty does not help you THAT much. 30% extra movement from expert log helps you much more. You'll visit more powerups and collect artifacts faster, so that will make you close enough to Hack or Tazar when you are taking that treasury. In the end game having 60%+ extra movement will mean you'll break to the treasure area faster. Clearing the treasure area with your crazy speed bonus is almost a guaranteed win.
killing legions of golems with 1 devil is definitely possible, (i did it on a smaller scale, but with vampire lords against dendroid soldiers... same thing really, in fact my one was harder...)
and i DID try devil force field... worked too, but it was only half full utopia though (if there was any more dragons, i would've run outta spell points )
and about the hydras... theres a thread somewhere, showing u exactly how to do it, i tried and it worked, use some lizard warriors as bait...
just cos ur not good enough to do something doesn't mean it can't be done... especially when many other people have tried it!
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Ecoris
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted May 18, 2006 11:39 AM |
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The hydra trick does not work at Hard difficulty or above.
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angelito
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
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posted May 18, 2006 12:45 PM |
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Quote:
The hydra trick does not work at Hard difficulty or above.
It does...just a bit different kind of usage...
Look here for an example.
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Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.
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Ecoris
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted May 18, 2006 12:50 PM |
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@ Angelito
That is pretty nice.  I gotta try it some day.
But still it won't do in Utopias.
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angelito
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
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posted May 18, 2006 04:18 PM |
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Edited by angelito at 16:20, 18 May 2006.
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That is pretty nice. I gotta try it some day.
But still it won't do in Utopias.
In utopia u can try the following:
Bring in your Chaos and 6 single dragflies. Place Chaos in slot 7. Black and Golds will eat 2 flies, then itīs your turn. Haste on Chaos, 1 dragfly besides green, 1 dragfly TWO hexes above of red. The other 2 flies to the east so only black and gold can reach them next turn. Green will attack its "neighbour", and red will fly ONE hex north and kill dragfly there. Now move Chaos in the SE corner and attack red with that move. From there on, u can only be attacked by 2 stacks at max. Cast Shield, Bless, Stoneskin next turns and "keep hiding" there. Cure helps also....
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Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.
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russ
Promising
Supreme Hero
blah, blah, blah
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posted May 18, 2006 04:25 PM |
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Quote:
killing legions of golems with 1 devil is definitely possible, (i did it on a smaller scale, but with vampire lords against dendroid soldiers... same thing really, in fact my one was harder...)
and i DID try devil force field... worked too, but it was only half full utopia though (if there was any more dragons, i would've run outta spell points )
and about the hydras... theres a thread somewhere, showing u exactly how to do it, i tried and it worked, use some lizard warriors as bait...
just cos ur not good enough to do something doesn't mean it can't be done... especially when many other people have tried it!
Gotta love some noob popping out of the box to tell you that you are not good enough. I know that you think you are better than everyone in this community, so you'll probably ignore what I say, but I'll say it anyways just in case:
1) Just because you did something "on a smaller scale" does not mean you can do it on a large scale. Say, you are facing 7 large stacks of gold or diamond golems. What if there are obstacles on the map that are not in your favor? What if one of those stacks walks the wrong way around the obstacle? What if after 1 hour of flying back&forth you get tired and your mouse slips? Most likely the only thing you'll get out of doing fights like that will be very very pissed opponent (because noone likes to wait for 2 hours) and a lost game.
2) On what month/week did you do dragon utopia? What were your stats/skills? How many Devils did you have? How many spell points did you use?
3) Next time you aren't sure about something, replace "There is a thread somewhere" with a link. I don't remember seeing a thread that describes a RELIABLE strategy of taking full utopias with 3-5 hydras without assuming that you have level 20 Tazar with several magic schools at expert level and 20/20/20/20 stats. Example of reliable strategy: angelito's hydras vrs mighty gorgons strategy (with spirit of oppression). Example of unreliable strategy: TRYING to take utopias with master gremlins (noone will be stupid enough to try that in a real game).
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Binabik
Responsible
Legendary Hero
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posted May 18, 2006 06:23 PM |
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I'm going to mention Aine as one of the best heroes to show up in the tavern. Why? Becuase she's one-of-a-kind.
There's several good might heroes for main, and a lot more who are acceptable. There's a good chance of getting a log hero, or even log specialist.
So Aine's not the best, but she's definitely on the "hope for" list....scholar, wisdom, spell book, 350 Gold, grem fodder, and maybe gargoyles for day one scouts in slow creature towns.....and she's blue
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Ecoris
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted May 18, 2006 06:47 PM |
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Yes, scholar and +350 gold are very good skills for a secondary hero. Alamar (scholar, wisdom, and resurrection) is also very good. In many cases you can hire heroes with 3 creature stacks (level 1, 2 and 3 creatures) with a combined value > 2500.
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LegendMaker
Promising
Famous Hero
The Metal Specialist
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posted May 19, 2006 01:54 AM |
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Edited by angelito at 18:44, 01 Jun 2006.
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Secondary Heroes
Quote:
mention Aine as one of the best heroes to show up in the tavern. Why? Becuase she's one-of-a-kind.
Hehe. You must have read on my mind, Bin. Countless times I discussed this at Spy. No later than two nights ago, I remember a fellow asking me <<Why Aine over Alamar ?>> Aine is the best possible scholar. Cause she actually PAYS you on top of effectively teaching you spells, that's why.
Come to think of it, secondary heroes are well worth mentioning here. After all, any decent strategy on a typical game will include one main, but several secondaries. All choices are very important, not just who will be your main hero.
Here's my take on what i consider some of the best secondaries, grouped by assigned tasks (some heroes fit in more than one category, including main, but it's all about decisions) :
 SCOUTS
The most obvious and basic of all categories. Anyone but the newest of the noobs use secondary heroes as scouts in any given regular game. Though what is a scout exactly and how can it come in handy during the various stages of a game may vary quite a bit depending who you ask.
Way I see it, a scout will mainly :
* uncover the land
* flag unguarded mines and take any bonuses up for grabs
* contribute to the chaining
* collect spells from distant shrines, scholars and such
But they can also, depending on the situation :
* fight the opponent's scouts
* do minor map fights to clear the way and claim more bonuses
* collect additionnal troops in various ways (dwellings, diplo, necro...)
* attack and run enemies or crucial wandering stacks to "scan" them
* drain enemies' mana (wraith bombs)
* other tactical or intelligence tasks
What does a secondary hero need to fullfill all these tasks in the most possible effective way ? First and foremost : SPEED. Additionnally, especially in the case they have to do some fighting, they'll need some troops and/or offensive means. To collect spells, wisdom is also needed. Scouting is okay early on, but not anywhere near useful in the long run imho, even for scouts. Pathfinding can be good later on, depending on the terrain.
The 5 log born heroes in the game are hence the ultimate scouts.
GUNNAR : 7 +QPs (+2 log born, +2 log spec, +1 main style level ups, +1 good might stats, +1 tactics born)
PYRE : 7 +QPs (+2 log born, +2 free ballista, +1 main style level ups, +1 good might stats, +1 artillery born)
DESSA : 6 +QPs (+2 log born, +2 log spec, +1 wisdom born, +1 free spellbook)
KYRRE : 6 +QPs (+2 log born, +2 log spec, +1 main style level ups, +1 good might stats) ( * )
MONERE : 5 +QPs (+2 log born, +1 offense born, +1 main style level ups, +1 good might stats)
( * ) : archery doesn't earn Kyrre a +QP here, because taking shooters with him would ruin his speed advantage immensely as a pure style scout).
WALKING MINES
There are 9 MoneyMakers (+350 gold specialty) in the game (Caitlin, Octavia, Clavius, Nagash, Damacon, Jenova, Aine, Grindan, Gelare).
4 Walking Resource Mines (Rissa +1 mercury, Saurug +1 gem, Calid +1 sulfur and Sephinroth +1 crystal).
2 estates born heroes, Cuthbert and Lord Haart, the latter being the only estates specialist (which isn't as great as it may sound).
Any and all of those are worth hiring for their paying specialty only. Of course some of them have other qualities that make them even more useful (mainly Aine, Grindan, Damacon, Sephinroth). But since even if you already have 8 heroes, those are always worth it (even if you lock them up inside a town), there's no real challenge between them. Whichever shows up at your tavern, hire him.
SCHOLARS
There are 13 scholar born heroes in the game. More often than not, you'll need one. But no more than one. Especially since they need some proper training to express their full potential, and the potential itself can vary a LOT from one scholar to the next. So you can and should be picky unless you're desperate for a particular low level spell and need it at all costs.
I think it's important to distinguish two groups : what I call true scholars (wisdom born, not just scholar born)and the rest (of which I think any of those labels suit them well : low scholars, half scholars, lazy scholars).
Only 6 true scholars in the game. The usual concern about the 7 lazy scholars (Fafner, Iona, Neela ( * ), Octavia ( * ), Septennia ( * ), Synca, Thane) is that you need to level them up much longer than true ones, wasting time and efforts upgrading useless skills until you finally get wisdom (even true for Thane, who is a really lousy scholar imho).
Out of the 6 true scholars, one doesn't come with a spellbook (Rashka) because it's a non-tower, non-necro might hero (only one that I know of who starts with wisdom). However, I'd pick even Rashka over any lazy scholar any day of the week (even those with a spellbook).
He'll cost 250 more gold than, say Fafner, and contrary to him he won't add the haste spell in the mix. But starting at no later than level 4, he'll get the best out of his scholar skill (you'll be lucky if Fafner gives the same results before he reaches level 8).
So, as the assigned scholar hero of your team, any of the 6 true ones will do a great job :
Aine, Alamar, Coronius, Rashka, Sanya, Xyron.
That said, those two particularly shine :
AINE (+350 gold, Curse)
Exactly what Bin said. She's a true scholar + she's a moneymaker ! Absolutely the best possible scholar (also arguably one of the very best moneymakers, as mentionned above).
ALAMAR (Resurrection, Resurrection spec)
Unless you play necro you just can't turn your back on Resurrection. Even then, with a few level ups, a healthy tank of spellpoints and a spare pack of troops, that boy will handle many minor fights without any losses. That makes him second only to Aine imho. On certain scenarios (especially the richer ones) he can even surpass her.
LAZY SCHOLARS still worth it :
( * ) : Neela (Armorer spec; armorer)
If you play tower and can't find a good (ie foreign) hero, you'll have to stick with this female, blue, scholar-cursed version of Tazar as your main heroine. When your main has a skill slot wasted by scholar anyways, no point in hiring another hero to do the scholaring job.
( * ) : Octavia (MoneyMaker, offense)
If you have her at your tavern, you should recruit her for her moneymaking specialty only. Since she starts with offense, levels up just fine as a demoniac and happens to be scholar born... If no true scholar shows up, you might want to give her a few upgrades and see if you can fulfill her scholaring potential eventually.
( * ) : SEPTENNIA (Necromancy, Death Ripple, Death Ripple spec)
Though she technically falls in the lazy scholars category, she's an exception. If you get her early on, she can even be better news than a true scholar. Believe it or not.
Septennia is different in that her second starting skill is wondeful and you'll want to upgrade it anyway, especially but not exclusively if you play necro. By the time both starting skills are upgraded to expert (level 5) there's a fair chance she'll get wisdom. Even if she doesn't, it's not the end of the world. She levels up fine for a magic hero and if you picked her in the first place, it's to handle as many minor fights as possible. Earth magic can't be anywhere near bad for her now, can it ?
As a necro player, you just can't turn your back on the opportunity to teach Death Ripple to all your heroes (which thankfully she'll do immediately since it's only a level 2 spell). Plus, she'll harvest some useful skellies during her necessary level ups, so it will by no means be a waste of time (unless you already have, say Vido + Alamar, or Isra + Aine).
As a non necro, she's even more useful imho. Especially on grass terrain. Dirt terrain has mainly undead wandering stacks, which are of course immune to DR. On grass terrain, having skellies won't give her movement penalties, and most of the wandering stacks will be living flesh. With a few level ups and enough mana, Septennia will become autosufficient as a map cleaner in areas you can't afford your main to dwell. She'll kill easy preys with her mini arma, gathering skellies in the process. Later on, said skellies (along with her continuously improved stats and collected spells) will give her an edge over not only most enemy scouts, but also tougher and tougher map creatures. In the meantime, she'll have fully developped her scholaring potential.
BARGAINS
What I depict here are heroes that are worth buying just for the one-time bonus they come up with. Of course, they'll do more or less okay scouts or particular locations visitors once you hired them. But you'll dismiss them without regret when more useful ones show up at your tavern. Basically, this category embraces any hero equipped with a free ballista, any hero who already knows a badly needed spell, and any hero with either many troops (especially if you play necro), much HP worth of troops (if you're demon hoarding) or a highly valuable troop (Bron or Lorelei in a good day for instance).
Under certain circumstances, a hero with a free first aid tent might be worth buying but compared to its regular price of 750 gold, this is hardly an actual bargain.
It depends on the situation you're in (if you already have haste, Fafner can suck it), so there are too many heroes to list in this category. For the record, this I think is good to know :
There are 6 Ballista givers : PYRRE (also a great scout and even a potential main, as mentionned above), Torosar, Gurnisson, Gerwulf, Christian and Arlach. Don't forget to check wether or not they actually have their ballista before you go hire them.
6 Slow givers : GRINDAN (best way to get that mandatory spell : moneymaker, earth magic, 30 sp), Gundula, Sandro, Moander, Geon and Voy.
7 Haste givers : CALID (walking sulfur mine), Terek, Brissa, Cyra, Fafner, Josephine and Straker.
A handful of great spell givers : THANT (Animate Dead, necro game winner), ALAMAR (Resurrection, true scholar), Jeddite (Resurrection), Aislynn (Meteor Shower, necro) Deemer (Meteor Shower), Solmyr (Chain Lightning), Septennia (Death Ripple, lazy scholar, necro), Coronius (Slayer, great news if many topes ahead). I guess a few others can be argued, under certain circumstances (if only there was such a thing as an Armageddon specialist, he would top that list by far).
5 potential Horde givers : SHAKTI (up to a horde of troggs), Gretchin (gobs), Ignatius (imps), Drakon (gnolls) and, technically... Galthran.
Though I hardly see any situation where I could possibly have a reason to pick Galthran as a secondary hero. For necro he's the best possible main, so I'd never waste his talents. If it's much too late in the game to make him my main, I'll already have so many skellies that his horde won't be that much of a bargain any more. And as a non necro... a horde of skellies only means bad morale.
Sadly, there's neither a sprites specialist (any necro's dream girl), nor a pikes spec (would have been way better than Tyris imho), nor a cents specialist (how scary would that be ?), nor of course a grems spec (just imagine you were Galthran and skellies could shoot)....
OBSTRUCTORS
That's a tricky category. Rarely used in typical regular games, but under the right circumstances it can pay back well. This time it's not at all about what you play, but rather about what your opponent plays. For instance, let's say you go all random and the other guy ends up necro. If you're blessed enough to spot Galthran at your tavern, by all means hire him ! Just to prevent him from ending up leading the other front, see my point ?
Opponent is rampant or hold ? Then Seph is at least two times more of a bargain for you (even if you couldn't care less for crystal in your own building strategy). Same for Calid if he's dungeon, Rissa if he's ferno, and Saurug if he's christian or tower. Oh, he's tower ?! Then do you really want to take the chance Orrin shows up at his tavern next week, out of spite from your refusal to hire him ? And so on, again highly depending on the situation, how lucky (or unlucky) you expect to be and, above all, your opponent.
HARVESTERS of DOOM
This last category is entirely specific to necro players. Any necromancer or death knight does start with the mandatory necromancy skill, so any can harvest some skellies for you. However, there are two rather famous super powered harvesters that are a great deal better suited for the job than their fellow deathheads :
ISRA : 6 +QPs (+2 necromancy spec, +1 adv necro, +1 main style level ups, +1 good might stats +1 magic arrow)
VIDOMINA : 3 +QPs (+2 necromancy spec, +1 adv necro)
Well, that's it for now. If anyone has more ideas or suggestions about secondary heroes, be my guest.
Edit by angelito
Nice overview and summary refering to the scouts topic.
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LM   
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Binabik
Responsible
Legendary Hero
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posted May 19, 2006 10:03 AM |
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One could argue that, as a group, the secondary heroes are more important than the main.
It's really hard to weigh these things, but I'd say they contribute more to winning than the main. With good scout selection and usage, the main WILL end up being good unless you pick and play him/her REALLY badly. With bad secondary heroes who are played poorly, the main will NOT be as good. Even with the best main pick, bad secondary heroes would be like driving the worlds finest sports car with bad gas, flat tires and blown head gasket....it won't win the race against an inferior car in good tune.
Quote:
archery doesn't earn Kyrre a +QP here, because taking shooters with him would ruin his speed advantage
Kyrre has another problem. Of the five born log heroes, she has by far the worst chance of getting log upgrade. Pyre has more than twice the chance of log upgrade. From best to worst, they are: Pyre (2:1), Dessa (3:2), Monere (8:9), Gunner (4:5), Kyrre (5:8). If it seems like Kyrre gets Archery upgrade more often than log, it's because she DOES get it more often.
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But since even if you already have 8 heroes, those are always worth it (even if you lock them up inside a town)
Someone's gotta hold the legion arts right? With a couple Legion arts, 2500 gold for a hero is a pretty good deal compared to Griffin Bastion, etc.
Quote:
( * ) : Neela (Armorer spec; armorer)
If you play tower and can't find a good (ie foreign) hero, you'll have to stick with this female, blue, scholar-cursed version of Tazar as your main heroine. When your main has a skill slot wasted by scholar anyways
Don't under-estimate Neela, even as a non-native main. She doesn't level up as well as others and certainly isn't the best, but I'm sure not going to cry if she ends up as main. I don't consider using a slot for Scholar a total waste. Any scout with a spell book acts like a Scholar bringing the spells to her. It makes a lot of the logistics MUCH easier. You don't end up with another Scholar trying to "catch up" with your main. Loynis, Aislinn, Solmyr etc all become Scholars. Octavia is almost the same. She doesn't have arm specialty, but she will level up better in other ways. Just off the top of my head, I think I'd put Neela in maybe the top 20 for main....."you can't always get what you want, but if you try sometime, you just might find, you get what you need".
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5 potential Horde givers : SHAKTI (up to a horde of troggs), Gretchin (gobs), Ignatius (imps), Drakon (gnolls)
These guys, or any other creature specialist, can easily become main with multiple external dwellings. I'm playing a game now (Meeting in Muzgob) that has SEVEN external Gnoll huts!!! With full built town, that's 119 Gnolls per week, plus tavern Gnolls. With a high level Drakon, those Gnolls do some serious damage for a defense town.
This stuff we've been discussing is the reason the "best of/worst of" threads are meaningless when all people do is name a hero, spell, build, etc. The correct answer to almost every strategy question in HOMM is "it depends on the situation, map, resources, town, etc". A proven fixed strategy will win games, but the ability to adapt those strategies to the situation will win a lot more.
A person not willing to change mains, scouts, or even build after the map reveals itself, isn't playing as well as they could. So what if your current main already has some levels? With a large army, a new level 1 main can make up for it in just a few fights. You end up with a better main and a good secondary hero.
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Ecoris
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted May 19, 2006 10:52 AM |
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you can't always get what you want, but if you try sometime, you just might find, you get what you need
Right, the Rolling Stones have got a point.
I must agree with binabik. If your main hero hasn't developed too much you won't lose much if you decide to make another hero your main hero. 25000 XP could give your level 15 main hero another 4 levels but it could also give you a new level 15 hero. Especially on XL maps. At high levels huge amounts of XP are required for high level heroes. Better to leave the throng of dendroids to another hero.
I played a game with Vidomina the other day just to see how powerful her Necromancy skill will become. Not far from my starting town I found the dead man's boots a week later I found a black market and my luck knew no bounds. Guess which artifatcs I could buy? The amulet of the undertaker and the vampire's cowl 
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maretti
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted May 19, 2006 11:37 AM |
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Imo we miss one category of scouts. That is scouts who can take out or lower stacks on their own early in the game because of their starting spells (solmyr, deemer, aislynn, ciele and septennia). These heroes are usefull if you have to fight some shooters very early in the game or if you have a high level dwell which is very well guarded. In the last case you can attack with one or more of these heroes after boosting their spellpower and that way weaken the guards and then take them out with full army on your main.
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Crag rules, Orrin and Ivor suck
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LegendMaker
Promising
Famous Hero
The Metal Specialist
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posted May 19, 2006 12:57 PM |
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Depending on the situation...
Yeah, I like that song too (I also quote its chorus every now and then hehe). Well, thank you both for your comments. We all seem to agree here (read my previous post again if you have doubts, and notice just how many times I said <<depending on the situation>>.
About Neela, I think my description makes her justice. I don't think scholar is a total waste of a slot for a main. In fact, I used to play that strategy (back in my oh-so-embarrasing Alamar days lmao )and of course I'll struggle to get the best out of it anytime I end up with Neela as main. Like you said, it simplifies <<hero contacts>> a LOT. Anyone who has any interesting spell just has to touch the main once, and you're done. It's just that it makes skill selection that much more delicate. So it gives a fine advantage, but at the price of a substantial inconvenient. <<Depending on the situation>> comes to mind... lol
Like anything strategy, there's a balance to be found and tuned each game. While I certainly used to overrate specialties a bit at some point... I'm still aware that some specialties, played right (which of course includes the proper back-up team) can have a tremendous impact on a game. Take Damacon for instance (I played a game a few nights ago where he ended up being my main). Specialties aside, he's no slouch compared to Crag. He builds up just as great. He starts with exactly the same skill at the same level. But in the long run, will his 350 gold bonus make up for Crag's offense specialty ? lol
The way I see it, there's plenty of decent to pretty good potential main heroes. Any non-christian, non-tower might hero with non horrible starting skills will do fine. While there's only a handful of excellent to great main heroes. If you go random or decide to pick a particular secondary as starting hero and decide that you'll pick your main on-the-fly... You have to take chances. Crag won't be waiting for you at the tavern every time. So if you meet Damacon first, then Damacon will have to do.
The same holds true for secondary heroes, in each category. You won't have a true scholar every game. That's no big deal if you adapt your strategy to whatever scholar (even a lazy, lousy one) you get. Waiting for Aine or Alamar to show up for too long would put you in much more trouble than moving along with the flow. It even happened to me a few times to create a scholar on-the-fly (while expecting Aine, one of my scouts got offered Scholar as his first level up and here I go).
As for switching main as you go, sure it's always a possibility. Up to a certain point. When I said <<way too late in the game to make him my main>> I do mean it. Galthran at the tavern month 2 won't mean taking my troops away from my level 20 Clavius or Isra or whoever. Cause at this stage, it will already be a race against the clock. Now it doesn't mean I won't give him a pack of spare VLs and assign him some minor tasks and level him up a bit. You never know. But it's very unlikely he'll have the time to catch up with my current main's level early enough to justify the late switch.
But I'm certainly not afraid to switch up to middle game if need be. Because for sure, it's always good to level up and boost any hero you play, main or secondary. Most secondaries will fulfill their potential only past a certain level, anyways. And any edge you can have is great news if scout wars are bound to happen.
To conclude about the importance of picking the right secondaries, some strategies rely mainly on a particular secondary hero. For instance, if you play necro and want to go the Animate Dead way, you have better chances of success by picking Thant as starting hero than Galthran. It's much more likely you'll find a decent main as you go (out of the 20+ there is in the game) as well as one of the 13 scholars (or even one of the 6 true scholars) than the one and only Thant.
Another classic case is having to pick a starting hero for a map or template you know is really poor. Picking Monere is making sure you'll have a great main, but chances are you'll be too broke to provide him any military support. Picking Grindan makes it very likely you'll end up with a foreign hero as main, but is this that big a deal, really ? Compared to the tremendous boost of Grin's gold and his early game potency as temporary main ? Of course not.
@ Eco : With the cloak of the undead king, even Nimbus rocks ! If you really want to see what Vido is worth, I'd advise trying her under normal circumstances.
[ADDIT] :
@ Maretti : Sorry, foo, I was writing this post while you posted yours, so I only noticed it now. Well, if you read the Septennia section of my previous post, I described how to use her the way you mean in a rather detailed fashion. But it's true I didn't make it a distinct category. I guess it has to do mainly with the fact there's always a scholar at the core of my strategy. So, I most often see Solmyr or Deemer as walking scrolls rather than actual heroes.
Ciele is an exception, though. Her fetish spell is the most common of all, so there's no point hiring her for it. And it's true she makes a pretty effective hit and runner in early game or when blocked by an impossibly tough stack at some point. Especially if you play Dungeon ! 
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LM
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Binabik
Responsible
Legendary Hero
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posted May 20, 2006 12:37 AM |
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Edited by Binabik at 00:41, 20 May 2006.
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There's 80 heroes and only 2 show in the tavern. Sometimes the dice just go against you. It's very realistic to end up with 7 heroes who all suck. So you not only need to know the good heroes, but also the ones who suck.
The odds of getting a born Log OR born Scholar are pretty good. But the odds of getting both aren't very good. So What's the next best thing?
The next best thing to a Scholar is a Wizard. They have the best chance of getting the skill. After Wizard, the next best are Druid, Warlock and Elementalist.
The next best thing to a born log is a Demonic, then Battle Mage.
If you've bought 4-5 heroes and don't have a scholar, then buying a wizard makes a good back-up plan....just in case. And if you don't have a born log, Demonic and Battle Mage both make good all-around secondary heroes, with a decent chance of getting log.
What I would almost call a new "group" of secondary heroes is the pixie hero. Flies are the only tavern creature who is faster, but the odds of getting them aren't very good. There are several speed six creatures in the tavern. In a straight line speed 6 & 7 move the same distance. But heroes don't move in straight lines. With diagonals, a speed 7 will outrun a speed 6. Unless the other hero is obviously better, I will always buy the pixie hero.
Edit: Walking scrolls???? I don't think I've seen a scroll walk even after drinking all night
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william
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
LummoxLewis
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posted May 20, 2006 05:03 AM |
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I think leggie deserves a qp for that outstanding post on the previous page.
Way to go leggie
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~Ticking away the moments that
make up a dull day, Fritter and
waste the hours in an off-hand
way~
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Fr0ggeh
Tavern Dweller
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posted May 21, 2006 11:20 PM |
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My favourite heroes are:
Crag Hack - I love the brutal feeling about him
Gunnar - It is really really nice to be able to run around like he does!
Isra - I like skeletons, it is such a great feeling to gather huge quantities of them after a big battle!
Im kinda new to Heroes 3 (I played it when it came out, but not as "seriously"/tactical as I was a lot younger ^^) so I havn't had the time to test a lot of different heroes yet but this is a really nice thread to pick up tips and test new heroes with!
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God2
Adventuring Hero
Your benevolent deity
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posted May 26, 2006 09:55 PM |
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Edited by God2 at 21:56, 26 May 2006.
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Many people mention Crag Hack, which I can understand, but I have always had a knack for Gurnisson as well.
I don't really know if the ballista is considered good amongst the seasoned tournament players, but being a barbarian, Gurnisson is probably the most potent ballista user you can get in the game.
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www.shoryuken.com
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Xarfax111
Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
The last hero standing
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posted May 29, 2006 12:12 PM |
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Quote:
I don't really know if the ballista is considered good amongst the seasoned tournament players, but being a barbarian, Gurnisson is probably the most potent ballista user you can get in the game.
The most potent ballista user is actually Orrin.
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Aculias
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Pretty Boy Angel Sacraficer
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posted May 29, 2006 12:17 PM |
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XARFAX is the best hero
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This thread is pages long: 
