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Heroes Community > Other Side of the Monitor > Thread: The Mistakes of Der Führer?
Thread: The Mistakes of Der Führer? This thread is 4 pages long: 1 2 3 4 · «PREV
tonyjt2471
tonyjt2471


Bad-mannered
Adventuring Hero
posted April 27, 2003 04:47 PM

Hitlers real mistake

was not employing the poeple on this thread for psychological warfare
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privatehudson
privatehudson


Responsible
Legendary Hero
The Ultimate Badass
posted April 28, 2003 12:21 AM

Unless he had a time machine, that's hardly a mistake really is it?
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TheUnknownOne
TheUnknownOne

Tavern Dweller
posted May 04, 2003 01:02 AM

I just registered to this site, being a long-time avid HOMM player, and stumbled upon this thread. As World War II is my topic of most interest (Military History as a whole is, but World War II interests me the most), I do feel like commenting on a very common misconception that Americans tend to have - that is, that it was a bad idea to invade the Soviet Union in mid-1941.

I must respond to that belief by noting several facts.
First of all, Germany and the Soviet Union were inevitably going to have an armed conflict sooner or later during World War II. Hitler and Stalin both very much feared and distrusted each other, and they both knew they would fight each other at some point, being, by far, the two most powerful nations on earth. Whoever invaded first would probably have, at least temporarily, the upper hand.

Stalin saw the awesome power of the Wehrmacht, and was (rightly) too afraid to even think of invading Germany - thus, Hitler, unless he waited and waited until 1943 or so, (when the U.S. would start commiting itself to the fight against Germany, and Stalin subsequently would undoubtedly seize the opportunity to pre-emptively create a second front against Germany) an extremely unlikely scenario knowing Hitler's paranoia of communism and overblown ego, would initiate the conflict. The question was, when?

In 1939, Hitler was preoccupied with Poland.

In 1940, Hitler was dealing with the Western Allies.

In 1941, Hitler realized that an invasion of Britain was   impractical, (to say the least) and (VERY wrongly) interpreted his other major front, North Africa, as a mere sideshow, entirely unimportant and without real use to Germany. Not to mention that the Soviet Union's military was still reeling from Stalin's massacre of Soviet military leaders in the late 30's.

Had Hitler waited until 1942, (the latest possible date to invade before Stalin, as explained earlier) the Red Army would have been far too strong for even the German Army's capabilities. The T-34 force was already overwhelming in '41 - it, with its KV counterparts, would have entirely destroyed the German tank forces (which were the main driving force in "Blitzkrieg" tactics) with ease, as Germany would have still been relying entirely on Panzer III's and IV's, (remember that Panthers and Tigers were built as a response to the T-34) entirely obsolete AFV's when compared to the T-34's. And the Soviet air force would simply be too numerically superior (which it was close to being in 1941) for the Luftwaffe, as good as it was, to handle.

If any educated individuals would like to respond to this, I would be more than pleased to discuss the topic further.

- The Unknown One

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privatehudson
privatehudson


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posted May 04, 2003 01:57 AM

Nice to see a fellow WWII fan Unkown

I tend to agree with most of what you say and your overall conclusion. Personally, as I said before hitler's mistake was not in invading russia, more it lay in his fanatical attitude interfering in common sense policies and the war effort.
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terje_the_ma...
terje_the_mad_wizard


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posted May 21, 2003 10:40 AM
Edited By: terje_the_mad_wizard on 21 May 2003

Good points, TheUnknownOne.

But Hitler and Germany had a little advantage in the fact that most of his army was veterans with high morale, where the Russian army mainly consisted of (as far as I've interpreted it) demoralized, conscripted peasants.

But, your point is still good. Russia was industrial superior to Germany (in quantity at least), and the Russians wouldn't stay 'green' forever, either.

This isn't the thing I'm mostly interested in (even though it comes high on the list), so if I'm wrong about something, feel free to correct me.
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privatehudson
privatehudson


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posted May 21, 2003 10:50 AM

There is an argument for saying that the german navy were quite unprepared for war in 1939. They had something called plan "Z" which was the plan to build new warships to a level to starve the british into submission. This plan, calling for nearly 20 battleships/heavy cruisers and hundreds of submarines would not be finished until 1944.
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Khayman
Khayman


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posted May 21, 2003 01:11 PM

Educated People Please Explain

My question would have to be this...What was Hitler thinking spreading his forces as to be almost fighting on three fronts at the same time (Western Europe, Russia, Africa)?  Who was really left to defend Germany?  Did Hitler call the older population and the teenagers to miltary duty?

I am still trying to comprehend Hitler's war plan.  Why not focus a main effort or focused attack on one of these fronts?  Does anyone believe that if the full force of the German war machine would have been directed at Russia at an earlier time, that Germany could have forced their defeat or surrender?

Thanks for the good history lesson, Unknown.
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privatehudson
privatehudson


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posted May 21, 2003 01:44 PM

Quote:
What was Hitler thinking spreading his forces as to be almost fighting on three fronts at the same time (Western Europe, Russia, Africa)?


Roughly speaking: Hitler believed that the fall of france would force the british to sue for peace and leave Germany to rule the continent to their own wishes. Indeed in 1940, when chamberlin resigned the likely candidate, Lord Halifax probably would have done so. Luckily for the world Churchill took power instead and refused to give up, thus keeping the western front open for the Raids across the channel and ultimately D-Day itself. Had Britain been peaceful, germany could have thrown her entire might at Russia.... America couldn't involve herself in Europe without a base of operations, namely the UK.

Africa was largely as a result of the major incompetence of Italy, Hitler's ally. Basically when france was collapsing Mussolini seized the chance to grab glory by invading british territory in africa whilst we were weakened. Unfortunately for mussolini, his army was all but useless and poorly officered. He invaded from Lybia into Egypt with something like 300,000 men. The british drove these out of egypt and then all but out of Lybia, capturing some 100,000 of them... all with just 40,000 troops. On the verge of driving them from the african coast Churchill stopped the troops and sent most of them to Greece (which had also been invaded by Italy, but was thrashing them) to finish the italians off there. Hitler struck back, sending troops to take Greece, which they did and Rommel to secure Lybia. Rommel and his men were not meant to open another front as such, more shore up the italians, but within days of arriving he counter-attacked the now weakened british and soon drove them back across Lybia again. All in all the germans never really saw Africa as a major part of the war, supplies were sent more to russia and then to either france or Africa. It was only when it was clear defeat was inevitable that Hitler paid much attention in Tunisia in 1942/3.

Russia was the main front, Hitler's little toy and favourite. First for supplies and elite troops before D-day and where his attention was always focused. Unfortunately for the germans a combination of his allies incompetence and Hitler's own foolishness often diverted him.

Quote:
Who was really left to defend Germany? Did Hitler call the older population and the teenagers to miltary duty?



Mostly yes, soon after it became clear that things were going pear-shaped he formed the Volkusturm (SP?) divisions from older men, former hospital cases and younger boys. A division of the Waffen SS, the 12th (Hitler Jugend) was almost entirely composed of 16-18 year old boys stiffened with other veterans and officers. He also drafted into the ranks of the SS foreign troops from all over europe, and the army itself on the eastern front estimated that something like 10% of it's forces were not of german origin during the height of the war. He also drafted naval and luftwaffe personel into army units or formed their own divisions.

Quote:
I am still trying to comprehend Hitler's war plan. Why not focus a main effort or focused attack on one of these fronts?


Well essentially he did, he kept russia out the war long enough in his plan to defeat the western allies, unfortunately we Brits didn't play ball. He then went to Russia to concentrate his forces, but could not defeat Britain. The chances of invading Britain were slim given the strength of the RAF and Royal Navy and our terrible weather


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frostwolf
frostwolf


Famous Hero
livin' in a bottle of vodka
posted August 05, 2003 12:41 AM

Hitler was many things, but he was not a general.And he thought himself as beeing one.That was the mistake.The ideea of attacking Russia was not bad.The battleplan was bad.He made huge strategic mistakes, out of which the hugest was at Stalingrad.His interference with the work and plans of his generals was fatal.If he had listened to them, if he had supported Rommel in the desert with the supplies he needed, if he had not changed the plans for Operation Barbarossa, and ultimately if he didn't insist on holding Stalingrad, the war would have been won.He was a poor military leader, and he didn't acknowlege that.That's why Germany lost.Like Napoleon sayd:'Better a pack of sheep lead by a lion than a pack of lions lead by a sheep.'
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bjorn190
bjorn190


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Jebus maker
posted August 05, 2003 01:07 AM

He sure is alot of dead atm, wich is cool.
His biggest mistake was giving in to hate.

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Sniper
Sniper


Known Hero
Dark paladin of Deyja
posted August 05, 2003 02:01 AM

Atacking russia was not a mistake, if would have done that in the month april as planed he would have probably conquerd it by winter, but he was delayed by one litlle country that really pissed him off, The Kingdom of Serbs, Croatians and Slovens. Hitler thought that conquering that country would be a piece of cake, he planned to finish it of in 2 weeks but he vought in there for 2 months wich handicaped him very much.

Also i think hi great mistake was that he sent Rommel to Africa, where wasnt as usefull as he would have been in Europe.
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privatehudson
privatehudson


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posted August 05, 2003 09:47 PM

Quote:
Hitler was many things, but he was not a general


100% agreed, his only military sucesses were plans he changed slightly from those drawn up by others, and his changes relied heavily on luck.

Quote:
out of which the hugest was at Stalingrad.


Hmmmm the style of the battle and campaign there overall was poor agreed, but it was not a major strategic blunder to try and capture the city was far from bad strategy given it's dominance of the south and rail transport system.

Quote:
if he had supported Rommel in the desert with the supplies he needed,


There were actually times when he did, times when convoys, had they arrived would have driven rommel further towards egypt. Ultra and enigma encoding though interrupted these convoys and sent them to the bottom.

Quote:
but he was delayed by one litlle country that really pissed him off, The Kingdom of Serbs, Croatians and Slovens. Hitler thought that conquering that country would be a piece of cake, he planned to finish it of in 2 weeks but he vought in there for 2 months wich handicaped him very much.



Utterly over-simplfying the issue, Hitler was delayed by many things and countries. Greece, Albania, Yugoslavia, etc. His air force, a huge factor in the early months of the invasion of russia was battered by the british in the battle of britain delaying and reducing the effect of any invasion.

Quote:
Also i think hi great mistake was that he sent Rommel to Africa, where wasnt as usefull as he would have been in Europe.


Not strictly true, if supported with troops, rommel could quite easily have driven through egypt into the oilfields of Iraq and the middle east, then moved from there, if supported to threaten an invasion of russia from the south, right around the caucasus.


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SirDunco
SirDunco


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Supreme Hero
posted August 05, 2003 10:42 PM

Personaly i thnk that his biggest misstake was to begin at all. To belive he could do it...Russia was luck it was lucky that the winter came so early and just plainly that the tide of the war turned.

His other mistake was not dealingwith the americans. The american economy was at that time actualy proffiting from the war and the germans. This mistake des Fuhrers was probably the biggest. If he could preocupy america with something they would shut up and be quiet.
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goodpig
goodpig


Adventuring Hero
The King of Pork!!!
posted August 10, 2003 10:54 PM

Hmm...
The assault on Russia I think hurt him considerably.
Didn't he remember what happened to Napolean.
Attacking Russia in winter= bad idea.
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