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| Thread: Dungeon; Tactics! |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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zordrac
Adventuring Hero
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posted April 28, 2003 10:59 AM |
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I'll add another thing.
You don't attack Stronghold or Fortress towns early. The reason is because they are too strong defensively. Even your great Manticore won't be able to get through.
The other reason not to attack them (besides taking too many damages) is because you can beat them later on in the game anyway. Stronghold and Fortress towns, like Dungeon, are good early in the game but not so good later on in the game.
Tower, Rampart, Castle, Necromancer, Conflux or Inferno are all fair game. Actually, you could also take over another Dungeon town if you like.
Well, maybe avoid taking over the Necromancer town, come to think of it. If they are like me, they won't be buying their Necromancer units, other than the Vampires, and then when you come knocking, they'll suddenly pump 100s of the things in there, and you'll be up against Power Liches and the like, which really hurt. Power Liches are a great defensive unit.
Yup. I think I've said it all there.
Does anyone have any other tactics that they use with Dungeon towns?
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Kuma
Promising
Supreme Hero
u can type so much text in her
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posted April 28, 2003 12:33 PM |
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Yeah, I have a tactic: Manties r the worst lvl 6 units in the game; focus on the big guys with axes.
And trogs can really win a game for u.
You guys just have to learn 'to play the map' more and not worry about silly endfights; game is not decided then.
In my 300-or so TOH-games I might have had 10 close end-fights.
I will win 90% of the endfights when my week 2 goes like this:
Day 8-10: Crash all crypts, caches, treasures and medstones (make sure u r around for those sweet things)
Day 11-14: Buy full troops (yes u had lvl 1-6 and cita week 1) and hit all Banks, hives and conserves.
I don't say that it always goes like that; but this is where your focus should be on.
And b4 any n00b starts about that again: yes also on 160%
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zordrac
Adventuring Hero
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posted April 28, 2003 12:53 PM |
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You're calling me a newbie?
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zordrac
Adventuring Hero
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posted April 28, 2003 01:13 PM |
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Rather than calling names, why not give your version of how to use the Dungeon Castle in HOMM3.
I mean sure, you can use the whole "I use the same thing for every castle" idea, but that only works at a very basic level. I barely even use Minotaurs because they die so easily.
I say you are wrong to use them like that, and I have had great success using Manticores in the way that I described.
By using them like that, you have a much greater chance of capturing castles than you do with any other castle type. Once castles are captured, then the game is yours.
Thus having big powerful creatures at the end really doesn't matter because they won't be able to get them. And it is very hard to prevent against a takeover.
Those treasure chests depend very much on what the map is, and how many there are. It sounds like you are presuming that it is a map with a fairly large supply of them. The amount of troops that you lose in a week 2 combat isn't worth it unless its on a big map. Its also particularly handy of course when you start with less money (e.g. playing on the highest degree of difficulty).
But if you have a map where there are other castles nearby, then you can capture them very speedily with your Manticore enhanced Dungeon hero. You can't do it with your Castle hero because of the costs and time it takes to build them up, at least until you have Monks/Zealots, and quite frankly Griffins don't cut it as Castle raiders so you'll be waiting until much later.
You can attack to some extent with Stronghold creatures, but they take a lot of damage in doing so. Fortress creatures can take castles too, in a similar way to how the Dungeon creatures do, but less effectively. You are again relying on your high level flying creatures. Different is that Fortress Hydra is the easiest level 7 to buy (cheapest overall). So you can go straight to the Hydra and whip them, with your Wyverns messing them up along the way. The Behemoth is the 2nd easiest level 7 to buy, so you can almost as easily go in with them too. These 3 castles (Stronghold/Fortress/Dungeon) are the ones which are very good in early game for this very reason. And if you are forced into combat early, then they are the ones to have. So, given that you have one of them (Dungeon), then you may as well go to battle early. Not much point building up for later.
Castle of course there isn't much choice with all of the buildings that you have to buy. Rampart at least you have the big money coming in, and Conflux you have the extra troops you can purchase per week, which makes it a battle in 3 long term for supremacy. Plus of course the special way to play Necromancer, which, depending on the map, can put them up there, or even reigning supreme. Tower aren't too far behind either.
But the Dungeon troops overall aren't great. Nor are Inferno. Dungeon needs to be used early to get a hold of another castle. Thats it. If you're stuck in the middle of nowhere, then you're pretty much out of the game, unless you can get a hold of lots of things to use your Black Dragon with, or you are a much better player than your opposition. Of course, most maps give you a fair amount of Castles to grab, be they your opponent's or neutral ones. Either way, you gotta attack them and early.
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GrunanCross
Famous Hero
King of the Underdark
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posted April 28, 2003 01:23 PM |
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well i like the black d army spell
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haile73
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted April 28, 2003 01:24 PM |
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Quote:
and I have had great success using Manticores in the way that I described.
success against who?
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GrunanCross
Famous Hero
King of the Underdark
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posted April 28, 2003 01:27 PM |
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kuma i like that strt,but the nOOb thing was kinda harsh! but in the end till i play you in ur eyes im a noodb to right?
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zordrac
Adventuring Hero
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posted April 28, 2003 01:34 PM |
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Quote:
Quote:
and I have had great success using Manticores in the way that I described.
success against who?
Against the AI for the past 7 damn years.
I am not some stupid newbie. I am very good at this game. And I can play all of the different castles.
And if you don't use Dungeon like that, then you're wasting it.
Unfortunately, the damn multiplayer thing never works.
Considering I've been playing this virtually non stop since they released HOMM1, I think that a newbie comment is rather ludicruous. How long have you been playing?
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GrunanCross
Famous Hero
King of the Underdark
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posted April 28, 2003 01:38 PM |
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yeah kuma only a noob calls someone they have never played a noob. clown!
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Kuma
Promising
Supreme Hero
u can type so much text in her
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posted April 28, 2003 01:40 PM |
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For the record: I play random maps. Usually big ones.
Like I said: it's all about taking the map.
And than all towns r sort of equal.
Wif dungeon u start wif the shak-attack: heaps of upgraded trogs or try for a hero wif tactics and get the 2 strong shooters.
Wif Ramp grands, cents and unies (day 5) for good speed and a 'carrier' for dwarves to block them in big fights.
Wif fortress gnolls, lizards and early wyvs
Wif inferno familiars, and efreet
Wif stronghold behes and rocs
All to crush the map quickly to get more gold.
And no.... Sigh.... This not only works on maps that r filled wif chests; it's killing the guarded ones that matter.
If u wanna avoid to be called a n00b, u might wanna stay clear of those n00bish remarks. I have a 5-2 record (for every 7 games) in TOH, I must have had a lot of gold-filled areas where my opp didn't get anything, right? If u want people to answer serious, stay serious urself, ok?
Just castle is a different thing: not a great week 1 units, so u always have make up ur mind which road to follow: angels, or champs. But anyway: a harder castle (for me) to play.
This means I will do about the same things as u will do, but only a bit earlier.
And that is always the difference between players like Vinz, Midnight, Archie, Tim, etc and players who dun play TP-special, dun attack shooters wif lvl 6 units week 1, go for cityhall week 1 and think manticores r good units 
FYI 'TP-special': crash ur main wif 1 army on a monster and chain ur army back to ur town. Open the tavern and jeez.... guess who's there?
If u don't know those things than n00b is not calling names, it's just the fase ur in.
Dun worrie, it'll get better. 
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zordrac
Adventuring Hero
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posted April 28, 2003 01:40 PM |
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Well, I might not be the best player (who knows?) but I am certainly no newbie.
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Kuma
Promising
Supreme Hero
u can type so much text in her
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posted April 28, 2003 01:45 PM |
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Quote:
yeah kuma only a noob calls someone they have never played a noob. clown!
n00b = newbie = a guy who still has a lot to learn.
And not being to protect ur town by a simple thing as TP-special makes u a guys who has a lot to learn I think.
If it sounds like a duck and if it walks like a duck... it's probably a duck
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haile73
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted April 28, 2003 01:53 PM |
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well maybe you 2 should stop mocking on Kuma and finally LISTEN to what he says. He is among the TOP online players for some years now and therefore he KNOWS what he is talking about. Instead of defending your obscure strategies (manticore IS one of the worst level 6) you should be thankful he is sharing some of his EXPERIENCE with you. It's not his fault you're not able to play online (looking at http://www.weeflea.org/toh/index.htm might be helpful btw) to see what a nonsense you're talking here.
As for my own HoMM3 experience, I'm playing it online since 2 1/2 years - not completely without success.
And btw, a n00b is someone who doesn't listen to well meant advice
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zordrac
Adventuring Hero
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posted April 28, 2003 01:59 PM |
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*cough*
You have offered no alternative strategy for how to handle a Dungeon Castle.
I rest my case. Tis the best way to do it.
This fellow who waltzed in here and pronounced that he is 100 times better has offered no alternative.
So please, share the wisdom.
Right now, all that you are sharing is criticism, and nothing in return.
I assume that TP = Teleport?
I was talking about early attacks, not something late in the game when you have teleportation.
I doubt that your strategies would have any success if you have no knowledge of individual town types.
Each town must be played differently. If all that your "expertise" is giving you is to know how to mock others, and ridicule all of their experience, whilst giving no alternative, then you are not a good player.
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zordrac
Adventuring Hero
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posted April 28, 2003 02:02 PM |
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So I'll just wait here until Mr. "Expert" can think of some better suggestion.
If he has nothing better, then he has no case for disputing my statements.
And, based on what he has said here, I think that he would be no match for me.
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haile73
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted April 28, 2003 02:14 PM |
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the fellow who waltzed in
Resting my case seems a good thing to do indeed. Kuma has repeated the main strategy for the 3rd time now and I see no point in doing so again.
I'd offer you a game Dungeon vs. Dungeon online to see which one works better, but you'd need to overcome your internet difficulties first. Until then I will remain silent. Peace
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Kuma
Promising
Supreme Hero
u can type so much text in her
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posted April 28, 2003 02:15 PM |
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Quote:
I assume that TP = Teleport?
I was talking about early attacks, not something late in the game when you have teleportation.
I doubt that your strategies would have any success if you have no knowledge of individual town types.
1st of all: maybe ur right and I shouldn't 'mock' newbies; it's just that I see these topics come in over and over again and it gets old quick.
2nd: I'll keep sharing my experience cause I want people to keep playing H3 and imo the more u master the game, the longer u'll enjoy it.
But now to prove to urself that u r indeed a bit of a stuburn player who still has a lot to learn, READ THE FOLLOWING CAREFULLY.
'TP-special' (not the spell town portal, but special)
1. U have a chain of scouts from ur main hero to the castle u wish to return to.
2. Load all ur army to the scout closest to ur main.
3. take one unit (faster than the monster u r about to attack) on ur main.
4. attack a group of monsters
5. retreat/flee (not the option for gold, that can only be done against a hero, but just run away like a coward)
6. chain back ur army from scout to scout to a town.
7. look in the tavern and u'll c that ur main is there.
That's TP-special for u.
I use that at least 2-3 times a game.
It's the same concept as TP from a spell, only it costs u 0 mana and 2500 gold (for re-hiring ur main)
Now, is that constructive enuf for u?
Live and learn. and play on-line, u WILL get burned in the beginning, but it's so much more fun than SP.
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Kuma
Promising
Supreme Hero
u can type so much text in her
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posted April 28, 2003 02:20 PM |
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And you are missing the entire point of my replies: it is important to work the map. whatever town u r playing.
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People used to call me crazy, but now that I'm rich I am excentric.
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AndiAngelsla...
Disgraceful
Famous Hero
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posted April 28, 2003 03:59 PM |
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First of all you split dungeon tactics in randoms and fixed maps - why? Coz on Rdms you dont build Drags too early and on Fixed Maps you usually do.
On fixed Maps every good players focus is on 4 Blacks Week3, and a additional Guild 4 - and do use a might hero to make your magic immune Drags strong.
On Rdms its often very hard to get mantis, minos and castle - on 160 usually impossible, so you gotta focus on 1 strenght: you can upgrade trogs or harpies early, i prefer harpies if built simply coz of the scout speed and the usefullness vs shooters.
Than you plan to make a strong mino/manti force for day1 week2, if i have the chance i go for Scorps - but that can be a high risk since they cost sulfur...
Well and than see how it goes earning money and sulfur week2.
A general rule of course is: Blacks have the potential to win a fight you would lose with other L7, coz of that immunity - no need to explain i guess, even to you tossers
Another: Mantis are weak, but scorps are among the best L6 - forget those meaningless stats, its the special and speed that counts. Man, i wish i saw my opponents face everytime my main stack scorps AND the single additional stacks paralyzed his tanks...
Dungeon Heroes, well most Overlords kick ass - Tactic and offense are always good, and Gunnar is the King of Rdms.
If you get Jeddite and for example Arlach on a RDM - NEVER pick Jeddite, man i cant warn u enough from using a magic main on RDMs lol...
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Sir_Stiven
Honorable
Legendary Hero
banned
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posted April 28, 2003 05:26 PM |
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loool zordrac
Why is it that the n00bs here nowadays are so stubborn?
Now it doesnt take long to realise that you are a n00b here tossac. So stop making yourself look like an idiot and start listening to advice given to you instead.
Like that "TP tactics" by kuma can win you lots...say you got a big chain on a map going. And you see opponents main hero coming close to your 2nd town which you can have a chain too. Then just let the troop holder give its fastest weak unit to main (which main usually got anyway for more speed) then let main retreat against closest enemy stack (no shooters or fast units preferd, you also need to use your brain on this one..if you play for example strong you dont sacrifise a t-bird as a retreat creature, you use hobgobs..and if enemy units are faster than you (speed 8-they cant reach first turn) and you fear morale get 3-4 hobgobs and split em into different stacks. Units that can reach first turn you dont attack as retreat creatures unless there are "few" of em and your willing to lose 7 hob gobs to retreat.
Anyways, then when retreaded you rehire your main hero from 2nd town and send the creatures through a chain to main hero again. And you will suprise your opponent bad, trust me
As for dungeon tactics there has been several alrdy and kuma has alrdy explained when to do what.
Myself i play like this, if harpy dwell pre built i upgrade that first.
Simply to get the speed on my 3-4 heroes, and i let one hero stay in town (with all trogs in castle)..other two scouts to look for ore/wood and early fights for main hero. And then i position out main so he can take lots of fights next turn. Then next turn upg trogs...and have the hero in town transport them to main... then let main hero have its fights and then pick up trogs again with one of the two scouts for more movement on main.
Then week 1 you try and get as many dwells as possible basically (or castle/citadel, depends on what you can afford) but two things to remember:
Be really careful about the trogs... in high numbers they can do wonders for you.
And, think twice before you take an external dwell with dungeon. the summon building dungeon has can be worth alot on randoms, lets say you get a drag dwell...with the summoner built then you can get 2 drags/week and not even have drag dwell built in town. So make sure you explore your area out first and check for high lvl dwells before you take harpy dwell or medusa dwell or something.
Also IMO the best tactic with dung is the "crashing" one, meaning: You should focus on getting creatures from banks instead of going for a good build. You get the creatures neccessary to go out fighting, then you clear the map banks for gold and creatures (wyerns&angels) week 2-3 and then try and launch a fast attack on opponent before the game goes so long that your weak building structure start matters.
there, now you have some dung tactics. If you want more im sure there are more threads here in library for them if you start looking.
good luck.
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