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splat
Adventuring Hero
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posted June 12, 2003 02:20 PM |
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diplomacy
My army's diplomacy doesn't seem to work the way I thought: they don't join me, although I outnumber them very much. The skill description says: "it doesn't work on creatures of an opposite alignment."
Well, whose opposite alignment?
I thought, the opposite of the diplomat's base race will never join, that's all.
But I have a hero who was once a Lord, now a Cardinal. She has GM diplomacy. She should be able to convince order, life, death and might. But it seems I can't convince life to join me. It was a "month of the ballista" army, 15 ballistae and some 40 squires. I had an army of about 600 ghosts, 40 bone drags, 40 slimes. That outnumbers them enough! But the outnumbering creatures are death aligned.
So is that the problem? And if so, can my diplomat convince all alignments, if she has different big-stacks?
Or is it: not the opposite of your diplomat nor the opposite of your creatures?
I have trained a nature diplomat also. I hope it was not for nothing.
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splat
Adventuring Hero
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posted June 12, 2003 05:18 PM |
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I couldn't wait. I have made a test map.
My conclusion is:
* You must outnumber them.
* You may not have a single creature or hero from the two opposite alignments from the to-be-swayed creatures.
So:
* You can always convince might armies.
* If your own army only has might creatures, it is good at diplomacy. If also the hero is a barbarian who has learnt some diplomacy, then you can convince all 6 alignments to join you.
* If you want to convince all stacks without going for a might army, then you need two big armies, of two opposing alignments. If you don't want to make a diplomatic barbarian, you need two diplomatic heroes, of two opposing alignments.
* If you have a death army with an order diplomat, you can convince only two alignments besides might: order and death.
If your diplomat matches your army, then you can convince three alignments besides might: chaos, order and death, in this case. So hiring a death knight and buying nobility skills for him at schools and universities, is a better idea for longer games than simply buying a Lord.
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Vince
Hired Hero
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posted June 12, 2003 06:40 PM |
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Thanks for clearing that up a bit. I've always wondered why diplomacy seemed so lame.
I haven't played with a might hero all that much, so that's one reason because as you said, you can sway any alignment.
Then there's that death limitation which now that I think of it, it makes sense. If undead gives all other stacks a -2 to morale, then I can see why diplomacy would be limited if you have these stacks in your army.
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bort
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Discarded foreskin of morality
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posted June 12, 2003 07:37 PM |
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Quote:
If undead gives all other stacks a -2 to morale, then I can see why diplomacy would be limited if you have these stacks in your army.
It's also somewhat hard to imagine the unholy hordes of skeletons stopping to negotiate.
"We accept your terms of surrender, but we still demand that we be allowed to eat your brains."
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Drive by posting.
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splat
Adventuring Hero
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posted June 12, 2003 07:42 PM |
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It's not just undead that blocks diplomacy sometimes. If you want some cerberi to join you, undead is no problem, but a sprite, a squire or a druid is fatal (and so on).
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CountZero
Adventuring Hero
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posted June 13, 2003 05:41 AM |
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IMO diplomacy and summoning are just not powerful enough to be desirable and are just weak enough to be irritating. When I have a hero with summoning/diplomacy I spend a lot of time dismissing creatures. At least with diplomacy I get a chance to refuse the creatures.
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The Count has spoken
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splat
Adventuring Hero
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posted June 13, 2003 01:41 PM |
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Diplomacy is one of my favourite skills. On an XL map like Zanfas, there are lots of armies to extract creatures from with diplomacy. Creatures that I already use somewhere, are always welcome. Especially if I can expand my army with creatures that I already use, like the ghosts, venom spawns and bone dragons, in this game. You have to go for a high level of diplomacy and give that hero some levels, to get more creatures. In my home territory, there were four armies of guarding ghosts, and I extracted about 30 or 40 ghosts from them each. The nice thing in with diplomacy in Heroes IV is that it always works, if you have the right creatures and heroes of course, there is no element of chance like in Heroes III.
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RexHomini
Hired Hero
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posted June 13, 2003 01:42 PM |
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Splat >>
If you were playing Death, life is the opposite alignment
So no wonder life army did not want to join death army
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Never try to fail miserably..You will fail miserably
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splat
Adventuring Hero
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posted June 13, 2003 04:00 PM |
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my creatures were death, but my diplomat was order. I thought only the diplomat's alignment mattered, and life and order are neighbours. But every slot in your army matters, they don't join armies that contains something disgusting, in their opinion.
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dushan
Hired Hero
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posted June 13, 2003 04:15 PM |
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splat they are not paid to think, but to fight 
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