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Heroes Community > Library of Enlightenment > Thread: Tactic exercices
Thread: Tactic exercices This thread is 6 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 · «PREV / NEXT»
angelito
angelito


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
posted December 23, 2004 04:31 PM

Revived.

Cool battles..
____________
Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.

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Sir_Stiven
Sir_Stiven


Honorable
Legendary Hero
banned
posted December 24, 2004 01:42 PM

Quote:
Revived.

Cool battles..

yeah.. im sure this thread will come in real handy next time i fight 2250 blackies in a AI castle on a random..

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angelito
angelito


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
posted December 24, 2004 04:55 PM

Quote:
Quote:
Revived.

Cool battles..

yeah.. im sure this thread will come in real handy next time i fight 2250 blackies in a AI castle on a random..


Sure you do....when u are not able to break before month 89 week 3 day 6....
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tigris
tigris


Supreme Hero
Supreme Noobolator
posted March 19, 2005 02:08 PM
Edited By: tigris on 19 Mar 2005

@revived:How about we start this thing over?

Quote:
http://www.her.h10.ru



at least two links are broken though:that to no 10 and to b.

@edit: couldn't sleep and tried some.Done the first three preety easy, but got stuck really bad with no 4.
Not attacking with VL's but still use them...hmm what could this mean?Did anyone suceeded with that one?
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angelito
angelito


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
posted March 20, 2005 12:22 PM

I tried #4 aswell, but i´m not sure about the exact rules. Do i have to win without losses? Can´t read anything about that. If i´m allowed to loose the Vamplords, then i´m able to manage that fight. (tricky thing though..)
Without losses, i ran out of spellpoints.
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Ruho
Ruho


Hired Hero
posted March 20, 2005 08:55 PM

"Not attacking with VL's but still use them...hmm what could this mean?"

Hint: Read the last post of Xarfax1's Collectors Cut-thread.

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tigris
tigris


Supreme Hero
Supreme Noobolator
posted March 21, 2005 07:33 AM

@ruho:hmmm..berserking the dragons may be indead be the solution.10x alot man!

done no. 5 (hidras) not a big deal,but running circles on the combat screen may be boring sometimes.

about no. 6 (1 AD, 1 sultan and 30 devils vs 60AA) this should be made with no losses? Seems impossible to me! I always lose the AD and the efreet.maybe i do something wrong.
no. 7 isn't much of a deal too, it's only that i failed to find the best spell combination to keep sumouning those elementals.My best result was 141 sharpshooters left out of 1000.Only tried it twice though.Just a matter of time.
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csarmi
csarmi


Supreme Hero
gets back
posted March 21, 2005 08:01 AM
Edited By: csarmi on 21 Mar 2005

Edit your post, the solution should not be here.

There is no elemental summoning in exercise 7.

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angelito
angelito


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Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
posted March 21, 2005 12:54 PM

Quote:
Edit your post, the solution should not be here.
....


????
The first and second page is full of solutions though...where is the problem?
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tigris
tigris


Supreme Hero
Supreme Noobolator
posted March 21, 2005 01:22 PM

Quote:
There is no elemental summoning in exercise 7.


I'm speaking about the exercise in wich 100 sharpshooters and 1 archmagi face 1000 sharpshooters.I double checked it on irh's web page and it is indead #7.I solved this exercice this morning USING summon (water)elementals.If you can present a solution without using sumoning it will be most wellcome as for me this sounds imposible(cos u can't use resurection eighter).
I'm not asking for a solution here, maybe just some hints.(if indead we speak about the same thing )
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csarmi
csarmi


Supreme Hero
gets back
posted March 21, 2005 06:43 PM
Edited By: csarmi on 21 Mar 2005

>>????
>>The first and second page is full of solutions >>though...where is the problem?


(SPOILER!!)

For he almost spoiled my fun (almost, because I have just solved it, had he posted it one day sooner...).

This problem is not solved there. At least a spoiler alert should be helpful.

Anyways.

The one about sharpshooters:

(SPOILER!!)

well, what about simply shooting them to death?

I am not sure what you wish to do with those elementals.

Hint: cast the first spell you would never think about casting here...

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dimis
dimis


Responsible
Supreme Hero
Digitally signed by FoG
posted March 22, 2005 01:50 AM

Exercise 7

Hello.
I saw exercises today. The only one i 've tried so far is 7: 100 vs 1000 Sharpshooters. If you need more fun edit the map and try it out on
100 (and 1 Archmage) vs 1100. Perhaps you can try it out on a even worse situation ...

Regards,
Dimis

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tigris
tigris


Supreme Hero
Supreme Noobolator
posted March 22, 2005 06:53 AM

Quote:

I am not sure what you wish to do with those elementals.
...


i'm using elementals to melee block the sshooters once my fodders have perished.

Quote:

Hint: cast the first spell you would never think about casting here...


hehe tosser
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csarmi
csarmi


Supreme Hero
gets back
posted March 22, 2005 07:27 AM
Edited By: csarmi on 22 Mar 2005

OK; YOU called for it.

Start by casting Stone Skin.

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dimis
dimis


Responsible
Supreme Hero
Digitally signed by FoG
posted March 22, 2005 11:04 PM

Exercise 7

Quote:
OK; YOU called for it.

Start by casting Stone Skin.


Well, it seems impossible to me for you to win the battle without summoning even a single stack of elementals. But the fact is that this exercise is pretty easy (I 've found 3 different solutions!). There might be something I overlook. The fact is that your army can face more sharpshooters. Try to win not 1000 but 1100 sharpshooters and then you 'll see what elementals are for. And not only that...

(SPOILER)
Plain Stone skin accompanied by frenzy is not the best combination...

Regards,
- Dimis.

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tigris
tigris


Supreme Hero
Supreme Noobolator
posted March 23, 2005 08:08 AM

How about mr. X exercices(the two saves), does anyone has #B (as the link seems to be broken)?

I solved #A, but lost some army, have to try that again!
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csarmi
csarmi


Supreme Hero
gets back
posted March 23, 2005 08:15 AM
Edited By: csarmi on 23 Mar 2005

I do summon elementals in the end, but it's a minor part of the fight. I found it to be the best solution in the sense that you end up having 95 sharpshooters. It would have worked against 1100 too, but I'd have losses in that case (can you win 1100 without losing more than 5 SS's?).

I think it's entirely winnable without summoning.

MrX - Links work for me.

Spell combination: I think it IS the best combination. It gives you 1*(800-1000)+n*(1900-2300) damage, do you have a better one?

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dimis
dimis


Responsible
Supreme Hero
Digitally signed by FoG
posted March 23, 2005 03:11 PM

Exercise 7

Quote:
I do summon elementals in the end, but it's a minor part of the fight. I found it to be the best solution in the sense that you end up having 95 sharpshooters. It would have worked against 1100 too, but I'd have losses in that case (can you win 1100 without losing more than 5 SS's?).

I think it's entirely winnable without summoning.

MrX - Links work for me.

Spell combination: I think it IS the best combination. It gives you 1*(800-1000)+n*(1900-2300) damage, do you have a better one?


Well, I do have losses. But as far as the spell combination is concerned observe the following:



(SPOILER!)


Let's see what damage you inflict on 6 rounds. (Your spell power is 5):

1) Stone Skin  :   800 -  1000
2-5) 4x Frenzy :  7600 -  9200
6) Frenzy (?)  :  1500 -  1900
Sum            :  9900 - 12100
Expected Damage:    11000
------------------------------
My way:
1) Bless       :  1000 -  1000
2) Stone Skin  :  1000 -  1000
3-5) 3x Frenzy :  6900 -  6900
6) Frenzy      :  1900 -  2300
Sum            : 10800 - 11200
Expected Damage:    11000
------------------------------

I believe that when you enter a battle, you have to be able to face the worst case scenario. In that sense my bounds are tighter to 11000 damage and by that way I will never inflict damage less than 10800, although you will do so on about 1 out of 5 battles (since the random number generator implies a normal {bell-shape} distribution of your expected outcome). And speaking of probabilities, on about 95% I will inflict damage between 10850-11150 - just a note on maths.
[Another note: Of course, while I won't inflict more than 11200 damage, you will do so, with the same probability as before (about 1 out of 5 battles!)]
That's why I believe me spell-combination is better; I have a greater lower bound. But there is something more than that. It is your Spell-Points! You don't have unlimited, do you? ;-)
On the above combination your expenses are 52 spell-points, while mine are restricted to 44 spell-points (Almost 1 Frenzy less ...)

Now let's see the actual battle:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
3x Summon Water Elementals  : Cost 54 Spell points and your 95 SSs can inflict 2400 - 3000 damage.
The 6 rounds described above.
Total so far:
Your way: 106 Spell-points and damage 12300 - 15100 (expected 13700).
My way  :  98 Spell-points and damage 13200 - 14200 (expected 13700).

But since I preserved more spell points I can cast Frenzy once more, while you can't! This means for the next round on me:
My Damage  : 14800 - 16100 (expected 15450)
while the best you can do (according to your SPs) is Bless your SSs:
Your Damage: 13300 - 16100 (expected 14700)

which means that on average (expected outcome) I can kill 50 more SSs than you can on these 10 rounds.
In the meanwhile, during these 9 rounds your "fooders"-SSs can kill at least 14 SSs (210 hitpoints) on the worst case (expected) scenario, and as a result my combination (and order ;-) ) of spells is expected to win at least 1044 opposing Sharpshooters (at least 15660 expected damage) without a single damage on my 95 Sharpshooters. (The order is critical so that stone skin lasts longer than bless while you cast Frenzy).
On the other hand, your combination of spells for these 10 rounds is *expected* to inflict 14910 hit points of damage which means 994 SSs, and as a result you WILL face some losses on your 95 stack (I am sure for that because I trust math on such a long sequence!) As a result, neither me nor you can win the battle of 1100 SSs without losses on our 95 stack of SSs, BUT on the other hand, if your opponents are 1040 I won't face losses on my 95 stack, while unfortunately you will!

? You might ask though what will happen if you don't use Frenzy on your 9th round (and Bless on 10th) but perhaps Stone Skin and only on 10th round Frenzy. That is unfortunate because your damage will be in range: 13100 - 16100 with expected damage 14600 (less than 14700 which was expected on Frenzy/Bless combination).
Moreover, I am not obliged to cast Frenzy on 10th round, but perhaps a combination of Forgetfulness/Stone Skin so that I will minimize my losses when facing 1100 SSs... (Forgetfulness is a spell that you are not able to cast at that part of the battle since you have no spell points, while I do!)


(And now an expression that I really liked from other threads...)
Just my 2 cents ...


P.S.: I hope that the above convince you that there is no way of winning the battle without even a single summoning ... (You have to inflict within 7 rounds 15000 hitpoints which you cann't no matter how lucky you 'll get!)


Regards,
- Dimis -

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csarmi
csarmi


Supreme Hero
gets back
posted March 23, 2005 03:26 PM
Edited By: csarmi on 23 Mar 2005

You cannot cast frenzy on the 6th round for you'll get attacked on the seventh then.

... and I did win the fight without summonings (with 20 SS's left )

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dimis
dimis


Responsible
Supreme Hero
Digitally signed by FoG
posted March 23, 2005 04:29 PM

Quote:
You cannot cast frenzy on the 6th round for you'll get attacked on the seventh then.

... and I did win the fight without summonings (with 20 SS's left )


I am afraid you didn't understand completely of what I described above ... Since you summon 3 times elementals, it means that for 9 rounds your opponent has to fight his nearby fooders. That way you can shoot with your 95 SSs 10 times. I hope it is convincing that. Moreover, I don't care (? perhaps the Forgetfulness/Stone Skin/Bless combination might well suit you...) if I 'm going to be attacked on 10th round, since there are not going to be left too many SSs to kill me. In fact, I kill them! :-)

On the other hand, I don't disagree that you can win the fight without summoning, but as you just said you are left with 20 SSs which might be reasonable and as you can realize you suffer losses on your 95-stack of SSs. Another way of viewing that, is that you can't win within 7 rounds your enemies. That's all I 've said regarding no summoning. Hope it is clear now.... :-(

Regards,
- Dimis -

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