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Mad_Unicorn
Famous Hero
I am a mean person shame on me
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posted July 10, 2003 09:10 PM |
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yes i have seen much death and body parts in my lifetime ever see somebody getting hit be a train? well I have. Ever have a good friend of yours think he could float down safetly from a 7 story building? I have.
Think a little?
Okay how much difference is their between the human body and say a rat or even a cat? How long would it take to figure out how to do the same thing on a human that you could do to animals? atleast another 20 years ATLEAST!.
What i propose is the most logical thing. Why figure how to cure animals of diseases WE inflict upon them when we can inflict them upon ourselves and skip about 50,000 steps.
If you are really serious and think human kind should be cured of all these diseases you would encourage human testing for things.
Emotional? nah I just value animal life more than i do human its pretty simple really. (if your gonna say human is an animal... its not its a virus just to clarify)
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Mercy_Severity
Adventuring Hero
answer seeker
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posted July 10, 2003 11:50 PM |
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Taken from the matrix heh, but very true. I should have just said that rather than post that novel i did.
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IRh
Famous Hero
Lizard
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posted July 11, 2003 10:14 AM |
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Quote:
yes i have seen much death and body parts ...
fine experience 8(
Quote:
What i propose is the most logical thing. Why figure how to cure animals of diseases WE inflict upon them when we can inflict them upon ourselves and skip about 50,000 steps.
You call it logic?
1. Where would you take 125M humans for that? From jails? Or from other countries?
2. Do you think experiences on humans would be easier?
3. Can you let YOUself to be diseased?
4. Maybe I'm so fool and don't understand you're still joking?
Quote:
If you are really serious and think human kind should be cured of all these diseases you would encourage human testing for things.
What do you mean? To force someone to be a victim? Or you think ppl will go for their will, to save animal's life?
Quote:
Emotional? nah I just value animal life more than i do human its pretty simple really.
Strange mean of thinking. The human normally can imagine itself on the place of another human (or animal), and thus we judge the cituations. So the higher price of human life comes from the fact that for humans it's more real: you can in theory occup the place of other human but you cannot become animal.
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if your gonna say human is an animal... its not its a virus just to clarify
Pity this thread wasn't closed before you. I'm >8( to read such toss after (4example) bort's posts or even DK's.
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Mad_Unicorn
Famous Hero
I am a mean person shame on me
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posted July 11, 2003 06:53 PM |
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No I wouldn't give myself a disease to save somebody unless they can justify to me in a way that would make me want to.
Animal physiology is ALOT different than human physiology except maybe the primates if you wanna cure somethin why take the longest route possible?
No i wasn't joking in the statements i said... but if you wish a joke why not offer up the 80+ year old senators for the experiments they are useless anyway. For the rest yeah take them out of prisons of wherever since you are trying to cure something that the entire planet populace can benefit from.
Why not use some of the army people who do what they are told(they have done so in the past and will again in the future).
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Athimus_Phaeni
Famous Hero
Final Fantasy Fan
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posted July 12, 2003 04:17 AM |
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First of all, as you could notice from my previous posts(if you read then), I am an animal lover(Couldn't find another expression, but I think you get it) too.
I think that your suggestion of do drug testing on prisoners isnt something easy to work. Why?
1) The justice would have to work perfectly well. What is a utopia.
2) Drug testing envolves suffering, nobody would want to do it. So it would have to be chosen from all the prisoners. What types of prisoners should be chosen? Well, lets divide the prisoners in 3 classes:
a) Short period of time
b) Long period of time
c) Death Sentence \ Entire Life
It is not possible to take the first one, usally charged of small steals. The second one is a problem. There are those kind of prisoners that clearly wont become good citizens after being at the prison, the will just keep breaking the law, but there are the ones that DO change. And spend the rest of their lifes trying to repay what they've done. It woundt be fair to take these people, even if they committed crimes. And the third one just occurs in some countries. In Brazil, for example, there is no Death Sentence nor Perpetual Prison. And this kind of people would be the first ones to be chosen.
3) The drug tester becomes revolted. It should have a highly secure system too, so the prisoners dont get in contact with the others or cause any harm to other people.
4) They just stop taking drugs. What will you do? They could commit suicide easily. And it would be a very common option for them. Of course, we won't miss them very much(almost all people won't miss them at all, actually will be happy with this), but we will be losing a lot of testers. And we will lose them more than "gain".
I hope this point is clear.
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But I won't be
Burned by the reflection
Of the fire in your eyes
As you're starying at the sun
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HodgePodge
Adventuring Hero
Bard Extraordinairé
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posted July 13, 2003 07:25 AM |
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Speak for Yourself Oldtimer ...
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Originally Posted by Oldtimer:
animals are products and if you disagree just look in you fridge or your closet.
My Fridge & Closets are Dead-Animal FREE!! Maybe YOUR fridge or closet is crammed with corpses but not mine. Animals are sentient beings, deserving of kindness & respect. Anyone who doesn't believe this is an enemy to all life on this planet & all creation!
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IRh
Famous Hero
Lizard
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posted July 14, 2003 09:49 AM |
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He-he... corpses-free... You veg... Wants to have clean hands?
Animals kill other animals, why we mustn't?
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Lith-Maethor
Honorable
Legendary Hero
paid in Coin and Cleavage
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posted July 14, 2003 10:17 AM |
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a veggie?
animals are part of the food chain... just like humans... considering meat products "corpses" means you go against nature...
as far as clothes go, I only agree on the fur part since it is an unessecary luxury... wool and leather from not endagered species (sheep and bovines for example) is ok...
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You are suffering from delusions of adequacy.
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IRh
Famous Hero
Lizard
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posted July 14, 2003 12:53 PM |
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Er. But what's the difference between luxury and necessary things? Meat is not necessary, proven by the (person above)*N me.
And, why should we protect species? What good from 300 tigers or so?
And again, why should we care about animals?
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Lith-Maethor
Honorable
Legendary Hero
paid in Coin and Cleavage
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posted July 14, 2003 12:59 PM |
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simple...
whether we like it or not, animals are essential for our survival on this planet... we are all part of the equation... one part missing could be bad for all the rest
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You are suffering from delusions of adequacy.
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IRh
Famous Hero
Lizard
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posted July 14, 2003 03:07 PM |
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No. I mean why should we care about animals as we care about ppl.
Is a 300 creatures population an essential part of nature? Is 0.01% of all animals of some species essential?
Ofcos we should care about the balance, surviving of large populations etc.
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silx87
Supreme Hero
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posted July 14, 2003 03:45 PM |
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Quote:
1. Where would you take 125M humans for that? From jails? Or from other countries?
there are over 6,000,000,000 people in the world!in less than 10 years there will be more than 10,000,000,000 ppl in the world!that's overpopulation!thats a serious problem!
there are enough humans to experiment on!Quote:
2. Do you think experiences on humans would be easier?
well,now they experiment on animals,they will try it on humans in 50 yrs or so anyway!why bother testing on animals?why not move on to humans already!
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3. Can you let YOUself to be diseased?
YES,I would volounteer for such a test if I knew I didn't have much hope in life anyway,there are many ppl like that!
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If you are really serious and think human kind should be cured of all these diseases you would encourage human testing for things.
if we were immune to all diseases,we wouldn't die!the world would overpopulate in a few years,we would die soon!
being totaly immune to disease can bring about a catastrophy!
A_P,another term would be tree-hugger I share the same problem
Irh,300 tigers DO count!
the difference?...HUGE!
its called balance!
if u kill 300 tigers in one area,the pop of the tigers prey grows quickly,since the natural defence against being hunted is growing in very large numbers!so then u have 30,000 new animals,with not enough food for them,they destroy trees and plants,the land becomes arid,and those 30,000 animals die too,and now you have NO tigers,NO plants and no other animals + the land is a desert!
of course ths process takes a lot of time,once started,xtremely hard to avoid!
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HodgePodge
Adventuring Hero
Bard Extraordinairé
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posted July 14, 2003 08:16 PM |
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Wool versus Leather & Fur ...
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Originally Posted by Lith-Maethor:
wool and leather from not endagered species (sheep and bovines for example) is ok...
The difference between wearing wool and/or leather & fur is that: Wool is obtained without killing the animal. But not so with leather & fur. Therefore, wearing wool does indeed keep one's hands free from shedding blood.
The same is true for eating/drinking dairy products, eggs or honey. There are many foods which can substitute for eating meat. The argument that "animals killing animals, so why shouldn't we" is erroneous because this is only "natural" on our cursed planet. It isn't the way Life is intended to be.
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IRh
Famous Hero
Lizard
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posted July 14, 2003 09:36 PM |
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Quote:
Therefore, wearing wool does indeed keep one's hands free from shedding blood.
And again why I wonder clean hands are so important for you? In pedagogical purposes, maybe? Or for moral comfort (if close eyes).
Quote:
The same is true for eating/drinking dairy products, eggs or honey.
Er eggs are a topic for a separate discussion...
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There are many foods which can substitute for eating meat.
Soya meat  .
BTW I like it.
With bouillion cubes.
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The argument that "animals killing animals, so why shouldn't we" is erroneous because this is only "natural" on our cursed planet. It isn't the way Life is intended to be.
It IS the way Life is intended to be.
Or you can name me some blessed planets? Moon maybe, where is no life (supposing)?
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silx87
Supreme Hero
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posted July 14, 2003 09:44 PM |
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Quote:
It IS the way Life is intended to be.
Or you can name me some blessed planets? Moon maybe, where is no life (supposing)?
yes,it IS!I agree!
and since the moon isn't a even a planet,then such a "blessed" planet doesn't exsist!
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HodgePodge
Adventuring Hero
Bard Extraordinairé
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posted July 15, 2003 03:14 AM |
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Clean Hands-Clean Heart &
Quote:
Originally Posted by IRh:
And again why I wonder clean hands are so important for you? In pedagogical purposes, maybe? Or for moral comfort (if close eyes).
It's not whether or not my "hands" are clean - it's whether or not my HEART is clean. Your obvious disregard for life is disgusting.
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Lith-Maethor
Honorable
Legendary Hero
paid in Coin and Cleavage
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posted July 15, 2003 03:32 AM |
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we are getting slightly off topic here...
but I can't resist...
as somebody already said, eggs are slightly different from dairy products and honey... yet, since you can't see you actually killed a chicken, you don't mind ...kinda hypocritic, no?
on the whole eating meat thing... whether you like it or not, humans (and many animals) are omnivorous... that means we eat meat and plants alike... it IS the way of nature... we were hunters and gatherers... why should we change?
on the fur/leather/wool subject, the reason I'm against fur is that usually it comes from endagered species ...and the fact I like fur on animals ...not on people
I am not even going to comment your "it is the way life should be" post... it is untenable at best...
sidenote: I know my alter ego is an Elf and all, and that I like animals, but if anybody calls me a "tree-shagger", i'll get very mad...
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You are suffering from delusions of adequacy.
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IRh
Famous Hero
Lizard
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posted July 15, 2003 10:25 AM |
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2silx: you know, there is Mars, Jupiter and others... Maybe Earth is the only planet cursed with life... If life is considered curse. O, I remember, life is sh!t, I understand.
To HP: don't play with words. Clean hands, clean heart - I mean the same.
2Lith: Yes u right.
BTW (as I know) eating eggs is not killing a chicken, hens can make eggs without a cock... We eat menstruation . Or no?
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Why should we change?
For pedagogical purposes and for moral comfort. I'm serious. But I think it's for future.
sidenote: Half wolf half Elf? Oh, love such things!
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silx87
Supreme Hero
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posted July 15, 2003 10:50 AM |
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Quote:
2silx: you know, there is Mars, Jupiter and others... Maybe Earth is the only planet cursed with life... If life is considered curse. O, I remember, life is sh!t, I understand.
oh don't say that,remember the song:Always look on the bright side of life..
life on a planet is not a curse,and Earth is not the only one cursed with it!
As for eating meat and such:I eat meat!I will eat it today!I will probably eat it tomorrow!I will grill it,I will put hot sauce on it,then I will cut it,and then I will eat it!And no one can stop me!Eating meat and eggs is natural!Even if u kill an animal for it!I mean,u don't hae tigers for eating meeat!Eating meat is part of the natural balance:If we wouldn't eat meat,all the cattle will multiply and there will be a huge catastrophe!I think I'd rather eat meat and eggs than starve to death!
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Lith-Maethor
Honorable
Legendary Hero
paid in Coin and Cleavage
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posted July 15, 2003 11:15 AM |
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@ IRh...
yeah, I know that those eggs we eat wouldn't turn into chickens... but a small portion of those would...
what we should change isn't our diet... but our insatiable greed...
sidenote: full Elf... with a wolf's soul...
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You are suffering from delusions of adequacy.
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