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Heroes Community > Library of Enlightenment > Thread: Dungeon Strategy
Thread: Dungeon Strategy [ This thread is 9 pages long: 1 2 3 4 (5) 6 7 8 9 ]
sos
sos


Known Hero
posted November 06, 2001 10:03 AM

Quote:

- of course then the other drawback is that Titans can be recycled and BD's cannot...



It sounds funny you know, recycling the titans lol

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The_Gootch
The_Gootch


Honorable
Supreme Hero
Kneel Before Me Sons of HC!!
posted November 19, 2001 12:40 PM

Shae, in long engagements I ususally replace my horde creature with either a level 6 or 7 from another town I've taken and developed.  Sometimes that is difficult with the Dungeon(you start dealing with terrain penalties underground).  But, when you are preparing to storm your opponent(s), switch out the trogs.

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Kuma
Kuma


Promising
Famous Hero
u can type so much text in her
posted May 01, 2003 09:02 AM

@ Top

Thanks for pointing this one out Hexa. Closing other thread now.

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zordrac
zordrac


Adventuring Hero
posted May 01, 2003 10:04 AM

Okay. I read the whole thread. So I will make some comments here.

First thing - the whole Armageddon/Black Dragon trick is very HOMM2. To get it to work effectively on HOMM3, you need Expert Fire Magic, and, unfortunately for you, there are all manner of ways to get around it, especially if playing player vs player. You will usually need to have some kind of backup troops. Do you go in with 15 Black Dragons and then have a backup hero in case your Armageddon doesn't work for some reason? Or in case it doesn't get anywhere near killing them? Or do you go around with Black Dragons + all the other troops?

Dungeon is a reasonable town to play, but for HOMM3 it has been severely downgraded from what it was like in HOMM1, when it was easily the best, and HOMM2 where it was the best in the hands of a good player. Now it probably isn't the best.

As many people have pointed out, there isn't a lot of point in playing with Harpies until they are upgraded. They do not hit hard enough, and get hurt very easily. And yet, that no retaliation thing makes the world of difference. In many games, you can get a free shot every round and you won't lose any harpies at the end of it.

Troglodytes do come in good numbers, and are strong enough to take out a few stacks early in the game, if you're good enough. You'll probably lose a few, so will need to pump up with troops when you get them, but you can make do.

As with most towns, the aim is to get to good troops quickly. Whether this is actually the Dragon is another matter.

As we have pointed out, the great benefit of the Black Dragon (magic immunity) can be a curse. To make best use of it, you have no other units in your army, and yet if a hero has Expert Magic Resistance and cloaks and the like, then it really stuffs you up.

This therefore lends towards needing to attack your enemy very early on.

Having 2 shooters (Evil Eye + Medusa), as well as 3 fliers (Manticore + Harpy + Red/Black Dragon) and then 2 solid ground units (Troglodyte + Minotaurs) makes you perfect for a castle siege, particularly early in the game. If you have unlimited shots, then the restriction of the Medusa isn't so bad. But these may be upgraded before you get to this stage, as you may consider doing with the Harpy. Indeed, if you are doing it early, it may be better to focus on numbers of troops rather than bothering to get the Black Dragon.

No other castle has such a good seige attacking army, which, without any special hero bonuses, is so ideal for attacking an enemy castle. Your fliers can block their shooters, leaving your shooters to attack, while your infantry moves in, and leaving you free (with a good spellcasting castle) to cast spells at your leisure. Its perfect.

But bear in mind that you can't just sit there and wait. 15 Black Dragons can't just clean up the battlefield. Whilst with a Castle Castle, 15 Arch Angels can be used to resurrect fallen troops, your poor black dragons, immune to all magic, quite simply die, and stay dead. While Phoenixes can resurrect themselves, the poor Black Dragons just die. Whilst Chaos Hydras and ArchDevils can attack without retaliation, your poor black dragon gets hit back every time, and keeps getting hit. While those troops can be healed, and blessed, and made into super troops, your Black Dragon just stays as is. And they can be made to look very vulnerable out there on the battlefield.

And Black Dragons aren't even the fastest creatures anymore.

Before you get a chance to cast your Armageddon spell, your Gold Dragons can shoot in and wipe you out. Or your Phoenixes can cast Anti Magic on themselves. And they aren't even the only creatures immune to Armageddon anymore!

It is little wonder that now the high scores list Arch Angels as the top creature, ahead of the poor Black Dragon.

And the other troops aren't all that good compared to others of their level either.

Certainly, waiting until it becomes player versus player is going to leave your player getting killed. You have to make use of those 3 fliers and 2 shooters and take out some castles. Anything less and you're likely to lose the game.


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Lews_Therin
Lews_Therin


Promising
Famous Hero
posted May 01, 2003 06:29 PM
Edited By: Lews_Therin on 1 May 2003

Quote:
First thing - the whole Armageddon/Black Dragon trick is very HOMM2.
No. In Heroes 3, Armageddon is a lvl4 spell, and there are far more creatures immune to fire than before.

Quote:
To get it to work effectively on HOMM3, you need Expert Fire Magic
No.

Quote:
Do you go in with 15 Black Dragons and then have a backup hero in case your Armageddon doesn't work for some reason? Or in case it doesn't get anywhere near killing them? Or do you go around with Black Dragons + all the other troops?
Whatever you like, itīs all very unpleasant for the opponent. A scout could test whether shackles, Recanters and Red Orb are present. You can then either play hitīn run with your main hero + 1 Black Dragon, or simply attack with main and Black Dragons and shower them every turn (if anything doesnīt work as you planned, thereīs always the possibility of surrender), or attack with full army, Black Dragons wait, concentrate on opponentīs strongest stacks, Armageddon end of turn, Black Dragons attack stack with most hitpoints, Armageddon beginning of turn, ... even if you donīt have fastest creature, there are far more enjoyable things to play against.

Quote:
HOMM2 where it was the best in the hands of a good player.
I havenīt been a good HOMM2 player, but I donīt think that Dungeon was considered best there by the good players ...

Quote:
As we have pointed out, the great benefit of the Black Dragon (magic immunity) can be a curse.
But it usually is one of the best special abilities in the game, for a level 7 creature. As they have the best defense ratings, they are the most sensible target if it comes to casting direct damage spells. Or Blind and Berserk, by the way.

Quote:
this therefore lends towards needing to attack your enemy very early on.
Because the Manticore is such a powerful creature, with his clearly sub-average hitpoints and combat stats?!?

Quote:
Having 2 shooters (Evil Eye + Medusa), as well as 3 fliers (Manticore + Harpy + Red/Black Dragon) and then 2 solid ground units (Troglodyte + Minotaurs) makes you perfect for a castle siege, particularly early in the game.
Irrelevant. If your opponent canīt meet you on the field and has to take shelter inside his castle, you can usually win by killing his scouts, taking his mines, and crushing him long-term with your map domination. Going for a well-defended castle has turned winning positions into losing ones thousands of times.

Quote:
But bear in mind that you can't just sit there and wait. 15 Black Dragons can't just clean up the battlefield. Whilst with a Castle Castle, 15 Arch Angels can be used to resurrect fallen troops, your poor black dragons, immune to all magic, quite simply die, and stay dead.
Unfortunately, 15 Archangels can also be used to evaporate in a red cloud.

Quote:
While those troops can be healed, and blessed, and made into super troops, your Black Dragon just stays as is.
And while you bless, heal, and all-around cuddle your Archangels, your opponent does what? Cast Wall of Fire and Misfortune?

Quote:
Before you get a chance to cast your Armageddon spell, your Gold Dragons can shoot in and wipe you out.
My Gold Dragons are the least likely creature to wipe me out. Also, they have +1 speed, +2 AT/DF, -50 hitpoints, immunity only up to level 4. Overall makes them slightly worse than the Blackies.

Quote:
Or your Phoenixes can cast Anti Magic on themselves.
Phoenixes canīt cast Anti-Magic on themselves.

Quote:
And they aren't even the only creatures immune to Armageddon anymore!
1. There are only 2 creatures immune to fire that can be recruited from towns with the possibility of Armageddon in their mage guilds.
2. Black Dragons are the strongest and fastest creature with fire immunity.

Quote:
You have to make use of those 3 fliers and 2 shooters and take out some castles. Anything less and you're likely to lose the game.
*sigh*
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notmytohhandle
notmytohhandle


Known Hero
posted May 01, 2003 10:30 PM

In random games dungeon rules.

NO other towns heroes has the same starting armies as dungeon heroes gets.

Make use of that and u will be very very hard to beat.

Summon portal: well this is almost like cheating . Even if u dont find a high level dwelling to summon creatures from u usually find something, and anything native makes a huge difference, Ex. 43 evil eyes week 2 without citadel built !!

NO need to say anything more ...

personally i love to flag trog dwells but iam a loon

/Archie.

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rychenroller
rychenroller


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted May 01, 2003 11:25 PM

Lews, I guess you didnt like that post

One thing I do not like about dungeon is the terrain. Start above ground and it makes crypts all the more harder. All of a sudden, vamps are as fast as your 2 mantis and wraiths are faster than your shooters. Makes for a pain the arse. But the portal is the real killer with dungeon. In game with Andi this morning on extreme...8 drags to start week 3 with. It is almost like a cheat lol.
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gravity
gravity


Hired Hero
posted May 02, 2003 07:32 AM

Quote:
Quote:
HOMM2 where it was the best in the hands of a good player.
I havenīt been a good HOMM2 player, but I donīt think that Dungeon was considered best there by the good players ...



Actually, Warlock was generally considered the best Heroes 2 town for larger maps, with the only real competition being Wizard.
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lord_crusader
lord_crusader


Promising
Supreme Hero
UHU!! supreme!
posted May 02, 2003 07:44 PM

Quote:

2. Black Dragons are the strongest and fastest creature with fire immunity.


strogets yes fastest no
phoenixes are more fast

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Lews_Therin
Lews_Therin


Promising
Famous Hero
posted May 02, 2003 08:05 PM

Quote:
Quote:
2. Black Dragons are the strongest and fastest creature with fire immunity.
strogets yes fastest no
phoenixes are more fast
Right, and regarding Armageddon, of course Gold Dragons are faster, too. But I was refering to point 1. Should have said: Black Dragons are the strongest and fastest creature from the towns that can get Armageddon in their Mage Guilds. Combination of Phoenix/Gold Dragon and Armageddon is relatively unlikely to appear.

Gravity, maybe youīre right, I never played HOMM2 online. I think I heard that Necromancer and Sorceress were considered best, but that may very well have been specific to open maps like Seven Lakes and Beltway.
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gravity
gravity


Hired Hero
posted May 02, 2003 11:36 PM

Quote:

Gravity, maybe youīre right, I never played HOMM2 online. I think I heard that Necromancer and Sorceress were considered best, but that may very well have been specific to open maps like Seven Lakes and Beltway.


I never played Heroes 2 multiplayer either, I just heard that Warlock was dominant on large maps. Sorceress and Necro would probably be good on medium sized ones, and probably Barbarian on small.
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lord_crusader
lord_crusader


Promising
Supreme Hero
UHU!! supreme!
posted May 03, 2003 12:41 PM

Quote:
Quote:

Gravity, maybe youīre right, I never played HOMM2 online. I think I heard that Necromancer and Sorceress were considered best, but that may very well have been specific to open maps like Seven Lakes and Beltway.


I never played Heroes 2 multiplayer either, I just heard that Warlock was dominant on large maps. Sorceress and Necro would probably be good on medium sized ones, and probably Barbarian on small.


Well, I'm not agree with you, in heroes 2 the best towns are the warlock town and the wizards town... the titans and the black dragons are the best units in this game, and this units can't be compared with phoenixes, bone dragons, cyclops, crusaders, only the titans and dragons have a the same level... the other are weak...
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gorman
gorman


Promising
Supreme Hero
Kickin it, Seraphim style!
posted May 03, 2003 02:12 PM

Yeah, the other's just don't match out in the long run. But in a short, quick game then they can just overpower u.
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When all else fails... read the instruction booklet!

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silx87
silx87


Supreme Hero
posted May 03, 2003 03:53 PM

For a large map,warlocks and wizards are strongest because of titans and dragons!Overall barbarians are weakest.Sorceress makes a good town on most maps,because they have fastest units they get the advantage of moving 1st,but they don't have very strong units and 2 shooters actually makes them quite weak.In siege combat necro and barbarians suck big time,while warlock rules every possible battlefield,except maybe defending in siege combat against a strong enemy.Wizards aren't as good as warlocks in general because of some expensive and not very good units but the titan is a quite impressive unit.

But back to HoMM3.Dungeon is mah favorite town!Everything I do is already mentioned here or somewhere I think,so I'm not gonna mention them anymore.I don't like most warlocks but Alamar is one of my favorite heroes.Other good heroes would be Gunnar and Arlach and Shakti.
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notmytohhandle
notmytohhandle


Known Hero
posted May 04, 2003 03:24 PM

It was impossible to beat Warlocks with a barberian hero on almost every map in homm2 alltho occationaly barberians could rush em but dident happen all that often tho

/Archie

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Kuma
Kuma


Promising
Famous Hero
u can type so much text in her
posted May 14, 2003 05:04 AM

u can't be sure to get armag. And I think it's a rather lame tactic anyway, but ok.

Work the map is what's it about and Dungeon is a good town for that.
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People used to call me crazy, but now that I'm rich I am excentric.

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GrunanCross
GrunanCross


Famous Hero
King of the Underdark
posted May 14, 2003 05:17 AM

Yeah with Gunnar the map is very easy to cover...
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Mercy_Severity
Mercy_Severity


Adventuring Hero
answer seeker
posted May 14, 2003 03:42 PM

Quote:
Well if something doesn't make sense to me, then please explain it a little further, armageddon spell NEVER made any sense to me.
Quote:


Yeah it hurts everything. As complex and difficult as taht is to understand. And if by that u meant the stratgey is what u dont understand: Strategy, 1.get black dragons 2. do massive damage with the spell 3.trash talk your new snow

I hope ive cleared up this puzzle for you.
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Frick
Frick


Known Hero
and eternal n00b.
posted May 16, 2003 08:53 AM

Dungeon... I think that the discussion "X-Town is better then X-Town" is useless. It all depends on how you play. Dungeon... Is a good castle, I think. They have Dragons, and dragons is always great creatures, and they have ... They have...
AARGGH!!! What's it called again? The thing that dubbles your spell points? Anyway, it's good. They have some powerfull Warlocks, they have a good mix of might and magic... But I like Tower much better.

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Sir_Stiven
Sir_Stiven


Honorable
Legendary Hero
banned
posted May 16, 2003 10:58 AM

wild guess frick, you like tower because solmyr is your favourite hero?

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