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| Thread: Wartch Out Stiven, Chelsea Are Back And With More Money! |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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Sir_Stiven
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posted July 04, 2003 01:33 AM |
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history is history.
Presence is presence.
True everton was one of the biggest suprises last season.
But thats because they play a boring and destructive way of football. I dunno if you could blame em though since they basically makes the most out of what they got in player quality.
But the coming season will be fun, if some of the Newcastle young guns can go up another level we will fight for the title all season long.
Oh and btw, Sir Bobby doesnt just buy whoever he wants. IMO newcastle has only bought two top class players recently (Robert&Woodgate).
The others.. players like Jenas&Bellamy and so on were just talents when they got to Newcastle. Bellamy were even on a low since his really bad season at coventry.
But Sir Bobby has a good eye when it comes to promising players it seems. Because now Newcastle has one of the most promising teams in the world.
So while you have to look in the past for success PH, i will just look into the near future.
I dunno why but i sure wouldnt wanna trade place with you...
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privatehudson
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posted July 04, 2003 02:00 AM |
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My point about money is still relevant, and not just on players bought. Our debt has meant that players like Jeffers for example, brought through the youth scheme, or the likes of Speed, brought to the club have been sold to cover debts incurred and therefore damaged the team as a whole. Our money problems also deters many players as our lack of sucess has meant many a promising youngster has signed for other clubs than our own when they have been fans since birth, examples being Rush and Fowler. We do have a good youth team and scheme as evidenced by Rooney, Jeffers and others also.
Then there's the whole pre-robson era, the likes of Fergeson (who I personally do not rate that highly anyway and certainly would not have bought back), Shearer and others have been bought for hefty sums. I just can't see them challenging all season at this time, perhaps a season or two, but I look at the squads of the likes of Manchester United and Arsenal, and their depth of talent is phenomenal.
As for trading places... well sure, I'd love my club to be out of money troubles and have X million in the bank  Money counts for everything in football these days, and not just in terms of whom you buy into the club.
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lord_crusader
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UHU!! supreme!
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posted July 04, 2003 05:37 AM |
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Look, Liverpool had a bad luck this season... but think a little... If Michael Owen have a good condition he can broke the premier league... just remember that beatiful goal VS Argentina in the 98 world Cup... was just a art work...
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Sir_Stiven
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posted July 04, 2003 11:53 PM |
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money doesnt get you far alone.
Just look at Leeds, buyed their way up the league... look where they are now.
cash isnt everything, you need a good board who can handle the money too. And you need a manager that can make the best out of the player(s) that the money buy.
Just look at Gullit, he could basically get all the money in the world to a team and would still manage to get it relegated
But one of the biggest reasons why Newcastle are as rich as they are is because of their fan base. And a good way to improve a fan base is to play good football..
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privatehudson
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posted July 05, 2003 12:15 AM |
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Quote:
money doesnt get you far alone
Whatever the truth of this you won't get anywhere without money these days, simple as.
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Just look at Leeds, buyed their way up the league... look where they are now.
Bankrupt and incapable of maintaining their position, money rules again.
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cash isnt everything, you need a good board who can handle the money too.
Indeed, we inherited a useless chairman who steadily brought us more and more debt.
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And you need a manager that can make the best out of the player(s) that the money buy.
Indeed, like Moyes who has done well for the cash he has been allocated.
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Just look at Gullit, he could basically get all the money in the world to a team and would still manage to get it relegated
I venture to suggest that Gullit won trophies, albeit early in his reign, unlike anyone at NU recently
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But one of the biggest reasons why Newcastle are as rich as they are is because of their fan base. And a good way to improve a fan base is to play good football.
Your point being? Goodison has a capacity of something near to 40,000. Our average gate is something like 34,000. This would suggest a loyal fan base to say the least. I still would prefer a good team winning trophies to a fancy team who can't win anything
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soccerfeva
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posted July 05, 2003 03:55 PM |
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Chelsea? Get real, they never win anything decent recently They're as bad as Liverpool in the league, decent side on paper, useless when it comes to maintaining their form in the whole season.
Liverpool are a great team managed by a horrible manager.
Full stop.
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Sir_Stiven
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posted July 05, 2003 04:55 PM |
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lol i dunno what to comment in your post PH since you basically agree with everything i say you just put other words to it to make em feel yours 
"money doesnt get you far alone"(me)vs "Whatever the truth of this you won't get anywhere without money these days, simple as."
comment: never said anything else, and if you would look through whole post you would get reasons for this aswell. So basically you agree with me 100% here. And money is a vital part in basically everything you do so i see no point in raising that at all?
"Just look at Leeds, buyed their way up the league... look where they are now."(me)vs"Bankrupt and incapable of maintaining their position, money rules again."
comment: yes because they failed to handle the money they got which i also wrote in that previous post of mine. Once again you have the answer in my post but you take one sentence out of it and then try and make it like your answer
The rest you also seem to agree with except the gullit thingy.. well if u seriously would prefer a manager like gullit ahead of Moyes just because he has won more stuff i see no point in taking this discussion any further.
And personally i dont see 34000/40000 as a good number. I see it as 6000 empty seats every home game.
St James:s Park has an max attendence of 52120 i think, and i seriously doubt youll see a league game where only 45000 of the seats are filled
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privatehudson
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posted July 05, 2003 05:20 PM |
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Money doesn't get you far alone = You will not be garunteed to win with only money
Without money you cannot win = You need money to get anywhere though
Two totally different things. You are indicating that money is not the only thing, I was showing though that it cannot be done without. I am merely showing that a combination of bad board management sometime in the late 80's to most of the 90s is what has brought Everton by necessity to their current position. It is not their lack of support, nor their lack of decent players/ability to produce a decent youth team. If you happen to agree with this that's your choice, next time make it clearer though as you often raise such things as good support and good youth team as if this sets NU apart from Everton when it does not.
The single most important factor in Everton's difference from NU or Chelsea is money, we do everything else right and as well as other teams, we just lack the finances to achieve long lasting results. Oh and as for your plagarism comment, well I wasn't aware that either
a) It was illegal to agree with people here and say so
b) I had to specifically state that I was agreeing with you in case you think I am trying to twist it to make it sound like my thoughts
c) You are the one to decide what others can and cannot say
d) You cannot tell the difference between plagarism and agreement
e) You cannot decipher when people are adding to your comments and following through your conclusions with their own side of the matter from their viewpoint and just assume they are making the same comment as you because it has a similar tone
f) All conversations with you have to end with a "I see no point in continuing this further" so you can have the last word and smugly assure yourself you are right
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comment: yes because they failed to handle the money they got which i also wrote in that previous post of mine. Once again you have the answer in my post but you take one sentence out of it and then try and make it like your answer
Uhmm no, they failed to achieve sufficient results to cover the expenses laid out, they spent assuming they could reach the minimum of the champions league and stay in it for long enough to earn serious money. They failed, therefore failed to cover their expenses. Not strictly a case of mismanagment of money, they had a plan and it failed to come through. That's not quite the same as they never did get that much money from their results to mismanage.
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The rest you also seem to agree with except the gullit thingy.. well if u seriously would prefer a manager like gullit ahead of Moyes just because he has won more stuff i see no point in taking this discussion any further.
Utter BS, I never compared Gullit to Moyes, there is no comparison. I merely said, compare him to NU who until recently have spent heavily on the likes of Shearer. Did it win them Trophies? No, so I prefer a man who can spend a lot and win to those who spend a lot and win nothing. Ultimately I prefer someone who can make their money (or in Moyes' case lack of money) bring results to someone who cannot. I made no comparison to Moyes because Moyes does not have that luxury, he is a good manager IMO because he has exceeded expectations, but until he can be backed with serious cash there can be no comparison to the likes of Fergeson or Wenger.
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And personally i dont see 34000/40000 as a good number. I see it as 6000 empty seats every home game.
Maybe some of these are away fans before we begin thank you. After that, this is again incomparable to other teams. Our average gate fell to 34,000 in the last few seasons because we were doing abysmally for 10 years. If we continue our form and progress you can garuntee we will return to near to 40,000. Loyalty means much to our fans, but there's only so often you want to see them loose.
*oops* Let me make a prediction, this will be seen as a personal attack, *laughs* Better things to be bothered with Just offering my opinion, take it as you will, whether it agrees with yours or not 
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Sir_Stiven
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posted July 05, 2003 08:22 PM |
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lol funny, i dont think ive even need to say something because you just make your own truths of what i say and comment them instead lol.
so here is for you PH:
A
F
E
G
so there, now you can make your own truths and comment them instead and it spares me the time of making any points
As for your A-F bla bla bla...
It doesnt matter what i say because you will make your own truths anyway so here: M, R, S. now go comment that instead.
But please, stop try to put words in my mouth all the time.
And please stop to make statements and then try and make them sound like mine to argue with.
All this bla bla bla and still you make no comments about what i said except for the money thingy which again i had explained in my previous post.
So a suggestion for you PH, start a thread on your own. Then you can argue with yourself there making the points that you think others do and you can keep yourself busy there and not toss down threads like this
Id be happy to discuss football with you but then please try and keep it too football please.
As for the few football points you try to make:
No, Leeds did fail to handle their money. They spent money they didnt have. And you obviously seem to know about their CL gamble..but that was exactly how they did mistreat their economy. They gambled it... how isnt that fail to handle it??
which exactly was my point to start here...
It doesnt matter if you have the money if you cant handle it.
Obviously Leeds couldnt since they gambled it all away.
Doesnt that make sense too you?
"money doesnt get you far alone.
Just look at Leeds, buyed their way up the league... look where they are now.
cash isnt everything, you need a good board who can handle the money too." This is from my original post.. and it covers all we have just discussed.
No one has said anything else really, its just you putting words in my mouth which you then argue.
And no, you didnt compare Moyes-Gullit. I did. You said you thought better of Gullit because he had won stuff. So i used that as an example to see if it felt like it when compared to Moyes instead. Obviously you didnt and you agreed with me again. suprise.
And if you think that the 6000 ppl missing every home game of yours are away fans... then you might wanna review your facts or simply wake up.
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After that, this is again incomparable to other teams. Our average gate fell to 34,000 in the last few seasons because we were doing abysmally for 10 years. If we continue our form and progress you can garuntee we will return to near to 40,000. Loyalty means much to our fans, but there's only so often you want to see them loose.
And i cant understand your point here because all you seem to do now is to prove that your supporters only follow your team in success?
St james:s park took 36610 ppl earlier, even through the bad Gullit/Dalglish times you could count that the stadium still were basically sold out every game.
Maybe thats the reason now why Newcastle is a rich club fighting for glory and Everton is happy just to make it to europe?
Because IMO its just pathetic to blame the lack of money when the supporters themselves doesnt go to their games.
Sorry for all the off topic BS in this post but i thought it was needed to be said to try and and keep this a football topic and not some boring personal fight.
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Nebuka
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Save me Jebus!
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posted July 06, 2003 05:16 AM |
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soccerfeva
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posted July 06, 2003 02:07 PM |
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You might as well say Bill Gates is back and with more money!
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Cat
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Gonna Get Dirrty...
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posted July 07, 2003 12:17 AM |
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No Soccerfeva, the two are not analogous.
Chelsea FC have, since Ken Bates originally attained the club (and it's huge debts) for £1, gone fron strength to strength. However, Britsh football has in recent years undergone something of a recession; as Stiven can also tell you.
Whereas in many European clubs the debts incurred by player transfers have no real meaning, the Britsh football clubs cannot afford to remain too far in the red for too long.
Chelsea had incurred great debts untill the aforementioned transfer of ownership. With these debts, we were unable to invest in the players worthy of a premier league football club, relying on players gained largely through the bosman ruling.
Added to this, we also had to continue to pay wages to Mark Bosnich during his suspension for the use of the illegal drug cocaine, despite the fact it was in clear breach of his contract.
By contrast, Microsoft is not a sports club and has consistantly stable and climbing shares. It does not transfer players in and out with other companies (ie, Apple) and certainly doesn't have to worry about uying computers from apple or hoping to get them free on the Bosman ruling. Gates has not incurred debts to the degree they are stopping his company from functioning.
Therefore your analogy is flippant and also ridiculous in a thread which invites serious football discussion. If you have any comments to make regarding new signings for clubs from serie A or the Premier League, please don't hesitate to make them.
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soccerfeva
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posted July 07, 2003 02:03 PM |
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Harry Kewell's signing to liverpool will result in only one thing-Top 2 in EPL..I hope
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Tommo
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Has brains is dangerous.......
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posted July 13, 2003 12:56 AM |
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Perhaps they should be renamed Chelski.
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Just tossing out seeds.
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Sir_Stiven
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posted July 13, 2003 01:54 AM |
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thats an old joke by now
Liverpool top 2? doubt it, but the next premiership season will indeed be interesting
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DoddTheSlayer
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posted July 20, 2003 06:32 PM |
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Chelsea had their one chance to win the title, but they blew it when the players decided to sack Ruud Gullit.
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Cat
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Gonna Get Dirrty...
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posted July 20, 2003 08:27 PM |
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Aw now c'mon that was so long ago... a season in football is like 10,000 years in the real world. Guillt, as he proved managing newcastle, was a lucky manager rather than a good one.
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Sir_Stiven
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posted July 20, 2003 09:06 PM |
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lucky? lol if he was "lucky" managing us i dont even wanna know what would have happend if we were "unlucky"
IMO Ruud Gullit is the definition of crap manager.
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Dragon_Slayer
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toss toss toss
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posted July 21, 2003 04:53 AM |
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Sorry to interupt the heated discussion but does anybody here watch or support the italian leauge? If there are any they better go for Juventus..... Champs of italy 27 times... Oh and Arsenal have got a good chance
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DoddTheSlayer
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posted July 22, 2003 04:39 AM |
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Not so cat he was a good manager footballwise but had poor people skills. Even so, to sack your manager when you are in 2nd spot is just plain crazy.
Do you not think you could have got the title that season?
btw The only thing that was proved at Newcastle was the same as at Chelsea and that is that Player power rules above all when push comes to shove, only this time it took just one player instead of the whole team.
Its Ugly and i think that the chairman should be holding that player down while the manager is hitting him. Lol at least thats what cloughie would have said.
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Retaliation is for the foolish. Silence is wisdom
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