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Heroes Community > Other Side of the Monitor > Thread: Same Sex Marriage
Thread: Same Sex Marriage [ This thread is 21 pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 (8) 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 ]
Celfious
Celfious


Responsible
Legendary Hero
NPC
posted October 28, 2003 05:31 PM

Theory from pie in the sky. bs

Its fact what he said

If someone dosnt know it exists, let alone wethornot its right or wrong, there will be curiosity. I'm willing to bet, it natrualy will feel wrong.

Its wrong. Its bad. Its wrong to tell ppl otherwise.
Make the boys play with GI Joe and cut off barbies hair
Make girls play with barbie and be all sweet and innocent.
Then the world is normal!

Homosexuality is natrual, in the way that the world is natrualy disfunctional.

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Khaelo
Khaelo


Honorable
Supreme Hero
Underwater
posted October 28, 2003 07:07 PM

Quote:
Theory from pie in the sky. bs

Its fact what he said

No, it's not.  The theory is flat out incorrect.
Quote:
If someone dosnt know it exists, let alone wethornot its right or wrong, there will be curiosity. I'm willing to bet, it natrualy will feel wrong.

Here we go again...Of course it will feel wrong if you're not gay!  If you are gay, trying to be heterosexual will feel wrong!  For someone who is homosexual, homosexuality is very natural, and heterosexuality is as unnatural as a straight person trying to be gay.  I cannot emphasize this point enough!  Please, try to get out of your own head and understand this.

As to "laying off" heterosexuals: Once we have equal rights with heterosexuals, we will not be pestering you to give us equal rights anymore.  
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Celfious
Celfious


Responsible
Legendary Hero
NPC
posted October 28, 2003 07:18 PM

So you, as 1 member of the entire society, feels that way. Great

Dont they as a whole want everyone to think of bisexuality as normal? I've said before, that if there is a day god reaps fire upon earth, that would be one of those days (i belive) because all human beings defied natrual reason. (left right woman man)

btw, if someone reworded the theory it would still be right, but be alot easier to see so.
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Khaelo
Khaelo


Honorable
Supreme Hero
Underwater
posted October 28, 2003 07:39 PM

It's not just me.  In fact, if you will look at the argument above, it is specific to monosexuals.  It comes from the words of others, both homosexual and heterosexual, who say they couldn't change orientation even if they wanted to.  I have heard this sentiment countless times -- in person, online, in books and articles, even on this thread.  

The curiosity hypothosis comes solely from heterosexuals who regard homosexuality as somehow developing in a fundamentally different way than their own orientation.  But when you listen to homosexuals' stories, curiosity is never a propelling factor.  I haven't heard that version even once.  It's always something along the lines of, "I knew I was different from X point..." or "I realized I was gay when..."  This is why I reject the curiosity theory as pie in the sky:  the people who hold onto it are only sitting around thinking up theories and not bothering to take evidence into account.  There are a number of other holes I could poke in it, but I suspect all my efforts are in vain here.  

Finally, as already indicated, the goal of gay activism is not to make everyone gay or bisexual.  That would be hypocritical in the extreme!  All we want is EQUAL rights to what everyone else has.  There's nothing special or extraordinary about it.  We want multiple sexualities to be accepted the way multiple races should be accepted, the way two genders should be accepted.  At this point, it's not considered okay in our society to say being of X race is immoral, or deny benefits to someone because they "chose" to be a woman.  Sexual orientation should be regarded the same way.
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Peacemaker
Peacemaker


Honorable
Supreme Hero
Peacemaker = double entendre
posted October 29, 2003 04:33 PM
Edited By: Peacemaker on 29 Oct 2003

Just for the record, I have heard that there has never been any significant change over time noted in the percentage of the human population that is gay, despite government policies, cultural mores, religious pressures and the like.  What I have heard is that it has always, everywhere, remained around 11% of the population.

If this is true, then the notion that we can influence people to "choose" against homosexuality by applying cultural or religious pressures, telling children it is wrong, and continuing to insist that it is an unacceptable lifestyle does not hold any water, since those pressures failed to make any statistical difference in populations where they have been applied.

This suggests to me that what the mainstram population has done is attempt to stamp something out that cannot be stamped out.  Rather, what this has resulted in is perpetual oppression of approximately 11% of the population.

I have heard people (homophobes) here in Denver complain that the level of acceptance of homosexuality has led to an increase in the gay population.  What is really happening is that gay people everywhere, who were prevously afraid to come out, are simply being open.  So this creates an impression in others that the number is increasing, when all that is happeneing is that we are becoming aware of the way it has always been but was kept secret.

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Lews_Therin
Lews_Therin


Promising
Famous Hero
posted October 30, 2003 03:57 AM
Edited By: Lews_Therin on 29 Oct 2003

Empiric studies have also shown that children who have been brought up by homosexual parents (man-man and woman-woman relationships) are in no way significiantly different from those with heterosexual parents. Neither in their sexual preference, nor in any other aspects of their emotional and cognitive socialisation.

There´s not one single reasonable argument against homosexual marriage and child adoption.
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Celfious
Celfious


Responsible
Legendary Hero
NPC
posted October 30, 2003 04:46 AM

You've missed alot lews.. there was a bunch and they're unresolved

1 thing is, everyone thinks what they think, and know what they know. And the left (supporters) cant prove otherwise tto the right (against) and never will aslong as I stand wher I stand cuz they have nothing worthy of swaying my firm standing.
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Aculias
Aculias


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Pretty Boy Angel Sacraficer
posted October 30, 2003 09:50 AM

Ok K we all I am sure would love Equal rights but in reality theres alot of hate towards those kind of people.
Some get turned down by jobs because of it.
Hate issues which can be fatal just because of the hate.
Reality is theres not an equal rights towars them 100% but of course some places & areas there is.
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burgessia
burgessia


Adventuring Hero
posted October 30, 2003 11:27 AM

well celfious,what would you do,if you`d know that sometimes a neighbour of yours slaps his child?(btw,a heterosexual neighbour).would you report this?would you REALLY report this?many people will do nothing for that child.but exactly the same people will go on and on about how it`s bad for the child if he/she is raised by homosexuals.hypocrits.the only truth is that people don`t like homosexuals.nothing else.

and there is a difference between children who were raised by homosexuals and those,who were raised by heterosexuals...the first ones are more tolerant.

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Aculias
Aculias


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Pretty Boy Angel Sacraficer
posted October 30, 2003 12:33 PM

You speak out of experience & almost make it sound like everyones that exact same if thier one or the other Zephyr.
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burgessia
burgessia


Adventuring Hero
posted October 30, 2003 12:38 PM

what do you mean?

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Peacemaker
Peacemaker


Honorable
Supreme Hero
Peacemaker = double entendre
posted October 30, 2003 04:37 PM
Edited By: Peacemaker on 30 Oct 2003

So Celfius, if we get what you are saying, no matter how much empirical evidence there is that proves the presumptions you base your beliefs on are incorrect, not true and/or unreliable, you will not change your beliefs.  On what do you base your beliefs then?

Suppose I were to tell you that slave owners were some of the last individuals to give up the idea that African Americans were sub-human, despite all empirical evidence to the contrary???

What I am suggesting here is to simply turn a blind eye to the facts is at the root of all prejudice.  That, and of course, fear.  Fear such as homophobia.

Oh, and don't forget about your homosexual Republican friends!


EDIT:  By the way Lews, thanks for providing a relevant link to this issue.

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Sir_Stiven
Sir_Stiven


Honorable
Legendary Hero
banned
posted October 30, 2003 05:09 PM

my opinion:

should gays be able to get married? off course.

should gays be able to adoption? nope. Not to be mean against gays.. but more out of concideration to the children.

By having gay parents you become a target for other children. having gay parents is unusual, and people always fear the unusual and therefor they mock it.

Im sure gay couples could give their children a great childhood when it comes to love. But i would like to see the child who wouldnt have bad feelings about a parents meeting when the other children talks about their mother&father the child will gay parents will talk about her fathers or mothers...

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Khaelo
Khaelo


Honorable
Supreme Hero
Underwater
posted October 30, 2003 06:46 PM
Edited By: Khaelo on 30 Oct 2003

Aculias:
You're exactly right.  And some of us are not content to leave things that way.  Changing things that are wrong is what activism is all about.  

Okay, so Celfious has basically decided to put his fingers in his ears and go "La La La" no matter what arguments and evidence are presented.  [Edit: <snip.>  Peacemaker addressed the implications of this attitude better than I could.  ]
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bort
bort


Honorable
Supreme Hero
Discarded foreskin of morality
posted October 30, 2003 06:56 PM

Stiven -- that's a valid criticism for not wanting to allow gay couples to adopt.  It is true that in adoption cases, you want to think about what stacks the deck in the child's favor the most, not what is most fair for the adopting couple.  All else being equal, given the choice between a loving, well balanced heterosexual couple and a loving, well balanced homosexual couple, from the happiness of the child viewpoint it would probably be best to allow the heterosexual couple adopt the child.  This is completely unjust and unfair to the homosexual couple, but in adoption cases, fairness to the adopters should be about the last thing on the mind.  However, at least in the US, and certainly in most of the developing world, there are far more potential adoptees than loving, well balanced heterosexual couples.  Given the vast excess of parentless children, from the viewpoint of what is best for the children, the standard for adoption should be "loving and well balanced" and worry about marital status or sexual preference later.  
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Aculias
Aculias


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Pretty Boy Angel Sacraficer
posted October 30, 2003 10:25 PM

I dont think it was a criticism Bort.
Just an opinion & a right to have his opinion & I am not sure if it would change the outcome of a child to be with 2 of same sex.

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Celfious
Celfious


Responsible
Legendary Hero
NPC
posted October 30, 2003 10:59 PM
Edited By: Celfious on 30 Oct 2003

No thats not it peacemaker and khaelo, thats bad judgement.

I'm str8 by choice. There are reasons involved. I wont list them.
Nothing you all can say, can take my reasons away. Because you cant give good reasons why its alright.

Heres a reason why adopting a kid into the relasionship is wrong. I would much rather beable to say my mom and dad, than my dad, and dad. Its automaticly putting an innocent person into an unnatrual relasionship which the majortiy see shame in. The majority would have to feel bad for the child for it.

and burgessia, I wouldn't call the cops unless there was evidence or something. I would actualy, handle it myself, like bringing it to the attention of all neighbors, and perhaps call them a child beater in front of their friends and family!


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Lews_Therin
Lews_Therin


Promising
Famous Hero
posted October 30, 2003 11:21 PM

Damn, Peacemaker´s and Bort´s answers are so good that I find hardly anything sensible left to say for me .

But I´d still like to add a few things ...
Quote:
You've missed alot lews.. there was a bunch and they're unresolved

A bunch of arguments? Where? I haven´t seen one.

Quote:
And the left (supporters) cant prove otherwise tto the right (against) and never will aslong as I stand wher I stand cuz they have nothing worthy of swaying my firm standing.

Why do you take part in a discussion then, if you´re not willing to change your opinions? If you are not interested in other people´s arguments, why are you here?

Hello Stiven,

Quote:
should gays be able to get married? off course.

should gays be able to adoption? nope. Not to be mean against gays.. but more out of concideration to the children.

By having gay parents you become a target for other children. having gay parents is unusual, and people always fear the unusual and therefor they mock it.

that´s a valid point, those children probably have to suffer more stress than others. But first, as Bort already pointed out, there´s hardly a better alternative for them, because the number of adoptees exceeds the number of ideal heterosexual couples who are willing to adopt by far. And second ... well, 15-20 years ago you were mocked for having a single mother/father, or even worse, an unmarried single parent. Once it is legal and common practice, I´d expect homosexual parents to become normality within a few years.
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Vadskye91
Vadskye91


Promising
Supreme Hero
Back again
posted October 30, 2003 11:24 PM

wow. nearly everyone posting here has at least 3 red stars, if not more. *claps*

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Celfious
Celfious


Responsible
Legendary Hero
NPC
posted October 30, 2003 11:27 PM

I'm not restating anything I already said lews, especialy things other ppl said.

And I'm here cuz I have an opinion on this. No one said I have to be willing to change my mind to state my opinions. Infact I'm willing to change anything about myself that I should.

So Lews.. Why should I change my opinion? giimmee 3 reasons

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