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Shadowcaster
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Shaded Scribe
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posted October 31, 2003 12:28 AM |
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I've been observing for a while, and I am pretty sure this argument boils down to one key question: is homosexuality a choice, or not? If it is a choice, not a tendency, then the slavery issue cannot apply in this case, as race is not optional. If not, if people are simply born or become homosexuals, then it would definitely be prejudice to discriminate against them for something that they cannot control.
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Celfious
Promising
Legendary Hero
From earth
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posted October 31, 2003 12:34 AM |
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If we were to redo a homosexuals life under different parents and life styles (of our choice), chances are they wouldn't be a homosexual
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Lews_Therin
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted October 31, 2003 12:38 AM |
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Quote:
So Lews.. Why should I change my opinion?
Simple: Once you hear arguments that are better than the ones your old opinion is based on, your opinion needs to be thought over again.
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Delfontes
Known Hero
Sorcerer Extraordinaire
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posted October 31, 2003 12:44 AM |
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Quote:
If we were to redo a homosexuals life under different parents and life styles (of our choice), chances are they wouldn't be a homosexual
Do you have a control "farm" of people you are growing in different environments to test this theory?
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Shadowcaster
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Shaded Scribe
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posted October 31, 2003 12:45 AM |
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Quote:
Simple: Once you hear arguments that are better than the ones your old opinion is based on, your opinion needs to be thought over again.
The fact that you think your arguments are better is in and of itself an opinion.
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burgessia
Adventuring Hero
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posted October 31, 2003 01:02 AM |
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I'm str8 by choice.
so you say you were atracted to males,but for some reasons you decided that you`ll someday live with a woman?
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I would much rather beable to say my mom and dad, than my dad, and dad. Its automaticly putting an innocent person into an unnatrual relasionship which the majortiy see shame in.
yes you like to say "mom and dad",because you lived your whole life with your mom and dad.you are used to it. an innocent person?sounds like gay people are guilty of something...now,you never lived with two dads,so you can`t say how`s it like.no,you can`t even imagine how`s it like. the majority?well **** the majority.
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and burgessia, I wouldn't call the cops unless there was evidence or something. I would actualy, handle it myself, like bringing it to the attention of all neighbors, and perhaps call them a child beater in front of their friends and family!
a lot of neighbours would say it`s none of their bussines. parents would still beat the child. this wouldn`t help to much.
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Celfious
Promising
Legendary Hero
From earth
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posted October 31, 2003 01:18 AM |
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Ok anyone tell me a reason why hetro siders should re think their opinion.
Here iss a couple why you should rethink yours.
1: What brings life is man and woman
2: no matter how hard you try, you cant prove that man & woman is unnatrual but its easy to think homosexual is not natrual
3: There was an entire community 1nce that thought Bi is ok. And they were over powered by the RIGHT opinions.
4: If you cant figure out if homosexual is right or wrong, then you should just go with what you know is right (hetro)
5: The very years (BC, and AD) are from a religion that says "thou shall never lay with another man" visa versa..
sigh.. I could think of more but no matter lets here it.
and burgessia. At a very young age my (Christian) cousin said to me that everyone has thought about it. I belive that. I belive everyone considered it and the majority made the right decision.
And deftones.. I'm sure if someone could provide us with a machine that lets us "redo" a homos life, I'm sure we would test that theory so lets not worry about the farm without the age reducer.
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Khaelo
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Underwater
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posted October 31, 2003 01:24 AM |
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Edited By: Khaelo on 30 Oct 2003
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The people who claim that homosexuality is a choice have yet to provide a solid reason that anyone would chose to be homosexual. The disadvantages of being homosexual in this society are obvious and have been explained several times already. *Why* choose it? *Why* keep it? If sexuality is a choice, wouldn't everyone opt out of oppressed groups?
The only attempt to address this issue has been the curiosity theory. Aside from its other issues, it doesn't explain why someone would delve into "gayness" then stay gay under oppression. Now they know what it's like. Curiosity satisfied...why wouldn't they go back to nice, easy heterosexuality?
Edit: Taking a gander at Celfious's objections, for the benefit of someone who might actually listen.
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Here iss a couple why you should rethink yours.
1: What brings life is man and woman
Please don't make me shout. Italics hasn't been working, so let's try bold: No one is trying to make straight people gay! You're not under attack! No one's trying to stop the human species from reproducing (although you are free to ponder the consequences of our population continuing to *grow,* rather than remain steady). Men and women will continue to get together and make children if gays are accepted because most people are straight, and no one's trying to interfer with that.
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2: no matter how hard you try, you cant prove that man & woman is unnatrual but its easy to think homosexual is not natrual
You're still in your own head. If you're gay, same-sex relationships are natural. There are gay animals, too, so don't even try to go there. 
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3: There was an entire community 1nce that thought Bi is ok. And they were over powered by the RIGHT opinions.
I do hope you're not referring to the ancient Greeks. That would be unfortunate, because then someone might have to point out that they were "overcome" by the Romans, who were, as we all know, the epitome of morality. Someone might also mention how much our modern society owes to ancient Greek culture and how much Christianity swiped from ancient Greek religion. Not to mention, it would all be irrelevant. Trying to argue that "right" ideas always overcome "wrong" ideas leads you into all sorts of trouble, historically speaking.
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4: If you cant figure out if homosexual is right or wrong, then you should just go with what you know is right (hetro)
See above re: your own head. If you're gay, this is reversed...
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5: The very years (BC, and AD) are from a religion that says "thou shall never lay with another man" visa versa..
Oh, please. What exactly does the date system have to do with any of this? So Christianity was the major religion of Western society; we're getting over it. (In case you're still fretting, though, scholars now use B.C.E. [before common era] and C.E. [common era] to indicate dates in a non-religiously-dependant fashion without causing complete chaos.)
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 Cleverly
disguised as a responsible adult
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Celfious
Promising
Legendary Hero
From earth
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posted October 31, 2003 01:28 AM |
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Ill go back the good old froydes (the father of some kind of pshycotherapy) to explain this mss Khaelo..
Cuz their thoughts and subconcsious have ben altered to govern them in that mind set. It's not easy, to change what your governing thoughts are. A governing thought for example is "murders wrong, stealings wrong, walking down the street is ok, vegetarianism is better"
And it apears to me, that your governing thoughts, overlayed with basic thoughts, dont really alow you to easily change yourself.
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burgessia
Adventuring Hero
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posted October 31, 2003 01:33 AM |
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Here iss a couple why you should rethink yours.
1: What brings life is man and woman
2: no matter how hard you try, you cant prove that man & woman is unnatrual but its easy to think homosexual is not natrual
3: There was an entire community 1nce that thought Bi is ok. And they were over powered by the RIGHT opinions.
4: If you cant figure out if homosexual is right or wrong, then you should just go with what you know is right (hetro)
5: The very years (BC, and AD) are from a religion that says "thou shall never lay with another man" visa versa..
1.so???earth is alredy overcrowded.
2.man&women=natural.woman&woman=natural.man&man=natural.no,it`s not easy to think otherwise.but it`s easy to think the way you were taught to think.and even if it would be unnatural...so what?do you have the same prejudice against S/M and other sex games?
3.right opinions?erm...geeezzzz.an entire community?millions of people think that way...
4.if you don`t know what is right or wrong,how can you know what is right?
5.religious crap
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Shadowcaster
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Shaded Scribe
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posted October 31, 2003 01:37 AM |
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Why do so many children rebel against their parents, who gave them life and support them, when all they usually accomplish is getting in trouble?
Like I said before, I do not know the minds of homosexuals, but I can answer the above question. They resent the limits their parents put upon them,one of the most prominently debated issues being curfews. Perhaps homosexuals resent the limits society puts on them (or something of the sort) and rebel against those limits. They are not always right, even though they may believe so.
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Celfious
Promising
Legendary Hero
From earth
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posted October 31, 2003 01:46 AM |
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2: Well, sex as just a thing I do look down upon but Ive had alot of it and just may be interested to play but my soul quest is not for sex 
3: What I meant is. There was a large state full of bi sexuals, and the right opinion prevailed in short time.
4: I know for sure, that it's not wrong to love a member of the other sex.
1 & 5s retortion to my 1&5 I'm just gonna let go for sake of long drawn out lack of importance
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Khaelo
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Underwater
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posted October 31, 2003 01:47 AM |
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Quote:
Ill go back the good old froydes (the father of some kind of pshycotherapy) to explain this mss Khaelo..
Gotta go to dinner, so this one will be quick...
Uh, oh, not Freud! You're right in that he is the "father of modern psychology," but his specific theories (Oedipus complex, phallus envy, etc.) are mostly out the window. You can learn this in anthropology courses as well as psychology. His scientific method left something to be desired, among other things.
On second check, though, I'm not sure what your statements have to do with Freud...will look at them more closely upon return.
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disguised as a responsible adult
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Celfious
Promising
Legendary Hero
From earth
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posted October 31, 2003 01:55 AM |
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i dont know if froyd ever said that but his similar thing that most people supresses sexual desires for perents as wrong, I hope he used the same principals..
Governing thought subconcsious)-wrong to sleep with parent
Basic thought (conscious)- blablabla.. & wrong to sleep with parents
and for the record (again cuz ppl might have missed it the first times)
I dont think wrong of homosexuals to the point that I wont be there friend and stuff. What I'm more against, is the in your face message that would likely turn kids bisexual if hetros shared the same opinion. Telling their kids "if your bi thats ok" and kids telling kids "we are all bi "
thats all.. I think the message should stay the same. If people decide they are gay (or realize) thats fine, but theres no reason to tell kindergarden boys to play with barbie and learn through their develpment stages of life that gay is natrual. (same thing with women ofcourse)
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burgessia
Adventuring Hero
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posted October 31, 2003 02:17 AM |
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ok,lets say that telling kids that gay is ok has some effect on their sexuality...
so some day a boy says to himself "i`m atracted to women,but people say it`s natural if you are having sex with men.i`ll try it." and he goes and has sex with a man.and he says "well it is natural,but i don`t like to kiss mens lips etc.so i don`t want to do it again.and i won`t."
the boy will not say "i don`t like it,but it`s natural and that`s why i should do it,too."
if homosexuality isn`t natural,then who invented it?some psycho bastard??
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Celfious
Promising
Legendary Hero
From earth
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posted October 31, 2003 02:28 AM |
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its an easy thing to invent like murder, wife beating, rape, self mutilation, suicide, general homicide, got any other ideas? I could list a few more.
Trisexuality, animal cruelty, no sexuality, slavery,
If those are natrual on one hand then sure, homosexuality is too
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burgessia
Adventuring Hero
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posted October 31, 2003 02:31 AM |
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its an easy thing to invent like murder.
only the word "murder" was invented
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Shadowcaster
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Shaded Scribe
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posted October 31, 2003 02:34 AM |
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Didn't homosexuality originate in Sodom and Gomorrah?
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>_>
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Celfious
Promising
Legendary Hero
From earth
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posted October 31, 2003 02:35 AM |
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every single word you speak is invented. Its an amazing thing to me.. the depths of it.. if you havnt taken anthropology try it and if your anything like me mentaly you'll love linguistics from its unknown origion to modern times.
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burgessia
Adventuring Hero
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posted October 31, 2003 02:46 AM |
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Quote:
its an easy thing to invent like murder, wife beating, rape, self mutilation, suicide, general homicide, got any other ideas? I could list a few more.
Trisexuality, animal cruelty, no sexuality, slavery,
If those are natrual on one hand then sure, homosexuality is too
homosexuality has NOTHING to do with rape,murder,suicide,self mutilation etc. because it involves two (or more) people,who are all willing to do it.
homosexuals are commiting suicides;maybe because they think there is something very wrong with them;at least that`s what heterosexuals are telling them.or for some other reason who has nothing to so with their sexuality.
some of them are rapists,but their homosexuality is not the cause.heterosexuals rape,too.
some commit murders,but again - nothing to do with homosexuality.heterosexuals murder,too.
etc.
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