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Heroes Community > Heroes 7 - Falcon's Last Flight > Thread: In retrospective, do we need 3d?
Thread: In retrospective, do we need 3d? This thread is 2 pages long: 1 2 · NEXT»
romanov77
romanov77


Adventuring Hero
posted September 13, 2015 02:50 PM

Poll Question:
In retrospective, do we need 3d?

I know it's way too late to discuss this for Heroes VI, but the recent Axeoth campaigns news forced me to go look for Heroes IV pictures and videos and I noticed that the game, after so many years, still looks gorgeous.

Then I thought about:

1)The limited budget Ubi dumps on M&M.

2)The outrageous amount of resources that 3d requires (HomMM V townscreen = almost half budget).

3)The massive issues caused by 3d, especially on older machines (but newer too).

4)How ugly 3d looks in Homm V, VI, VII.


I just realized that 3d has always been more of an hassle in modern Homm games.
Think about it, how many times did you rotated the map for different reasons other than the fact that 3d itself made difficult to see stuff? Probably I only did 5-6 times.


So I was thinking, wouldn't it be better for the next game to simply drop 3d and turn the games back into the work of art the older ones where?
Look at heroes IV, in my opinion it aged perfectly.
With modern resources and good artists, we could have a lightweight gorgeous game.

Also, think about the massive resources that would be available for actual development like AI, loading times, responsiveness, balance.
Moreover, we could get REAL ARTISTS, unlike the Deviant-art fan-art teenagers currently employed by Ubilol.
Think about it, no more dumb spiders, no more spikes, no more gratuitous fanservice and genrally no more "HEY LETS MAKE THIS GAME LOOK LIKE THOSE SUCCESSFUL WARCART AND WHORHAMER GAEMZ!"



Poll Results:
 8 votes (25%)
Yes, we need 3d.

 20 votes (63%)
No, we don't need 3d.

 4 votes (13%)
Meh...


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EnergyZ
EnergyZ


Legendary Hero
President of MM Wiki
posted September 13, 2015 02:55 PM

It has been claimed that Ubi needs to make 3D models first and convert them to 2D, which needs more money. I just say what I heard. But yeah, I'd prefer 2D, gives it that retro, charming look.

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The_green_drag
The_green_drag


Supreme Hero
posted September 13, 2015 03:25 PM

EnergyZ said:
It has been claimed that Ubi needs to make 3D models first and convert them to 2D, which needs more money. I just say what I heard. But yeah, I'd prefer 2D, gives it that retro, charming look.


This. Idk enough about the subject to argue it. And while I agree the 3d is ugly in h5 with the cartoony, Warcraft look (doesn't fit heroes as it does for Warcraft) I wouldn't call h6 and h7 models ugly. Some of the units are, but not the game as a whole.

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kiryu133
kiryu133

Hero of Order
Highly illogical
posted September 13, 2015 03:39 PM

2D does make things more clear, but to be honest, I don't give a snow. Probably turn the map 2D when you zoom out. plenty of games does that and it works really well
____________
It is with a heavy heart that I must announce that the cis are at it again.

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EnergyZ
EnergyZ


Legendary Hero
President of MM Wiki
posted September 13, 2015 03:57 PM

Besides, doesn't 2D has less requirements to run properly, unlike 3D, which is prone to lagging?

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TD
TD


Promising
Famous Hero
posted September 13, 2015 04:07 PM

Well, I do like the fact that in 3d adv. map more careful/precise players may find goodies others don't see because they don't bother setting "camera" good, but it's not a big deal. Battles look much better in 3d. TS could be made look great in 2d IMO. I wouldn't really mind that much though if game was 2d. The thing about 2d these days is though that unless you go "pure" 2d it's even more expensive than 3d. It would also drop a lot of people(especially first timers) from buying the game as they would feel it's obsolete. If you think about just trailers, they cost a lot of time/money and are really made to just attract customers. So to me in the end it wouldn't really matter that much, I just want good game-play -experience in the end. I still play games made even in early 90s despite their graphics(heck I still remember nethack which didn't have basically graphics at all...)

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GenyaArikado
GenyaArikado


Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
posted September 13, 2015 04:15 PM

well both H3 and H4 had 3D models converted into "sprites" for the 2D engine. I really wouldnt mind but it does seem like it would need more work in that aspect.

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eutow
eutow

Tavern Dweller
posted September 13, 2015 05:30 PM

The 3d in h5 and especially h6 was annoying and confusing rather than useful and pretty (except the h5 townscreens - I liked those).

The problem lies - I believe - in the execution. Strategy games can look good in 3d, but Heroes have bad visuals. They can be too cluttered (on h6 adventure map, I've missed important resource piles because I couldn't notice them on the shiny grass, surrounded by shiny flowers and shiny waterfalls and all that My Little Pony-tier bull****) or confusing (in battles, units are distant and if they are from the same castle, they have a similar colour scheme, which makes it much harder to recognize the troops).

If they did 3d well, I'd be fine with it. But they don't do that so maybe getting some good 2d animators would be a better option because 2d is much easier to look clear and "readable".
Sadly there's profit that has to be made and today very few 2d games are particularly successful. Ubisoft probably isn't going to risk.

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Corribus
Corribus

Hero of Order
The Abyss Staring Back at You
posted September 13, 2015 05:58 PM

I argued ever since I first heard that H5 was going to be in 3D that it would be the single greatest detriment to the future of the series.
____________
I'm sick of following my dreams. I'm just going to ask them where they're goin', and hook up with them later. -Mitch Hedberg

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Avirosb
Avirosb


Promising
Legendary Hero
No longer on vacation
posted September 13, 2015 06:09 PM

The kids like it.

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Stevie
Stevie


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
posted September 13, 2015 06:10 PM

Don't care.
____________
Guide to a Great Heroes Game
The Young Traveler

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ChrisD1
ChrisD1


Supreme Hero
posted September 13, 2015 07:12 PM

in retrospective another pole about H3 or H7 -.-
____________

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xerox
xerox


Promising
Undefeatable Hero
posted September 13, 2015 08:22 PM

2D is a lot more practical for these types of games.
____________
Over himself, over his own
body and
mind, the individual is
sovereign.
- John Stuart Mill

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frostymuaddib
frostymuaddib


Promising
Supreme Hero
育碧是白痴
posted September 13, 2015 08:39 PM

3D in itself is not the problem. The problem is how developers implement it.
____________
"Occam's shuriken: when the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas." -- Dr. Gordon Freeman (Freeman's Mind)
"lol" -- VERRIKER VON ERWINSSEN

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Storm-Giant
Storm-Giant


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
On the Other Side!
posted September 13, 2015 08:43 PM

The problem is not necessarily 3D, but Ubi. It is possible to have a 3D battlefield and show all the units in good sizes. For example:



Of course 2D has the distinctive advantage of offering much lower requirements, which should bring good optimization (something we're yet to see in a Ubi Heroes).

In my opinion 2D is more feasible to work so...

ChrisD1 said:
in retrospective another pole about H3 or H7 -.-

Very insightful comment, Chris.
____________

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Kayna
Kayna


Supreme Hero
posted September 13, 2015 08:44 PM

3D is supposed to be better. Blame Ubisoft for hiring only students that doesn't know how to optimize graphics.

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ShardofTruth
ShardofTruth


Hired Hero
posted September 13, 2015 09:58 PM
Edited by ShardofTruth at 22:00, 13 Sep 2015.

And here I thought that even back then Heroes IV was considered to be the ugliest in the series.

3D graphics have on important advantage: scalability. 2D graphics with the same level of detail as current 3D games are in no way more hardware-friendly.

Also, if possible, could you link a source for the claim the the twonscreens of Heroes V consumed half the game's budget? I've never heard this before.

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TD
TD


Promising
Famous Hero
posted September 13, 2015 10:09 PM

It was one of Limbic guys who said it on twitch when asked why the TS look so cheap/bad in h7. I think it was in the 2nd  or 3rd twitch session they held..?(Sorry, I don't remember for sure which it was). I think it was during may or later this year.

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Marzhin
Marzhin

Shaper of Lore
Designer & Writer, Ubisoft
posted September 13, 2015 10:37 PM

ShardofTruth said:
Also, if possible, could you link a source for the claim the the twonscreens of Heroes V consumed half the game's budget? I've never heard this before.


Half of the game's art budget, but yeah.

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kiryu133
kiryu133

Hero of Order
Highly illogical
posted September 13, 2015 10:38 PM

That couldn't be a lot of money...

HEEEYOOOOO!
____________
It is with a heavy heart that I must announce that the cis are at it again.

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