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killa_bee
Bad-mannered
Known Hero
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posted May 28, 2004 08:16 PM |
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"We messed up, we know we messed up."
Let me ask you people, for the 5th time... funny I've asked this question so many times and people like Lews_Therin that have so many facts and knowledge about political issues can't even answer it.
In my opinion, Saddaam had WMD's and took them out of his country behind the United States' back. I have no facts to support my opinion, however, I have common sense.
AND SO... LEWS_THERIN AND THE REST OF YOU PEOPLE AGAINST THE WAR IN IRAQ, DON'T LISTEN TO ANYONE THAT SAYS AMERICA MESSED UP. ANSWER THIS QUESTION.
If Hussein indeed had no weapons of mass destruction in his country, why did he give the U.N. weapons inspectors such a hard time that they left twice out of aggrivation? Wouldn't it be smart to abide by the treaty that you signed after the Gulf War and just let the people inspect your country? Sure it would be smart, unless you have something to hide. The moron had plenty of time to ship the weapons out of his country without the United States or United Nations knowing it.
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redhawk
Known Hero
Gaurdian Supreme
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posted May 29, 2004 03:31 AM |
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I second killa_bee's statement. The true mission in Iraq has lost it's meaning. We have problems over there and it is going to take some time to fix them. Lets focus on A solution, not the problem. Get the bad guys out, give the country back to the people and get the hell out of there. Not as simple as it sounds unless the government gets there blinders off and grabs hold of there balls and let us do are jobs.
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It's better to burn out, Than fade away !!!!!!!!
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Celfious
Promising
Legendary Hero
From earth
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posted May 29, 2004 03:50 AM |
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i am sort of seeing killa bees point. America has a great economy, and for this political issues get bashed really hard. AMerica is the largest melting pot. If you moved in the races we have here to most other countries it would be a major deal. Several different languages here in the US. Just about every race on earth presides here.
There would be alot more attmepted imigrints if they could do so. All it is, is a nice place to live. The main prob is like killa said. A bunch of haters. Another prob I wont get into is capitolism but thats not the main issue here anyways.
Anti america is sick, I am not anti anything except terrorists. **** anyone who has a problem with someone just because they are american. SO ****ing stupid. Its so easy to control the birth place of a child. When they are born they are automaticly an american, newzealand, lithuanian, swedish ect.. And ****ing ignorant ****ards hate them already when they are nothing but humans born. ****you
If (fake story, i only know my possible ancestor king severus) my great great grand didnt meet guinivere and move to france, then he wouldn't have had the oportunity to move to america, then I would be the same nationality? I wouldn't be the same person huh? You ****s call me american when all it was is simple changes. If I move to canada then 2 generations down the kids would be canadians. If I stayed here they would be americans. Not really a difference in reality but ****ing haters are god ****ed stupid ignorant ****s.
heh.. forgive my tone im not even madPeople who know whats true (by their petty belifes) AND hate people by their belife, are so ****ing stupid its sickening.
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What are you up to
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Consis
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Of Ruby
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posted May 29, 2004 05:22 PM |
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The Reality Of War
(copied from cnn.com)
U.S. Army Cpl. Pat Tillman, the former professional football player killed last month in Afghanistan, was probably killed by gunfire from his own unit during an intense firefight, the U.S. Army said Saturday.
"While there was no one specific finding of fault, the investigation indicated that Cpl. Tillman probably died of friendly fire while his unit was in combat with enemy forces," Lt. Gen. Philip Kensington Jr., of the Army's Special Operations Command ,said at a news conference at Ft. Bragg, North Carolina.
"The results of this investigation in no way diminish the bravery and sacrifice of Cpl. Tillman," Kensington said. "Cpl. Tillman was shot and killed while responding to enemy fire without regard to his personal safety."
Tillman, who walked away from a $3.6 million contract with the Arizona Cardinals two years ago to serve in the military, was posthumously awarded a Silver Star on April 30.
"There is an inherent danger of confusion in any firefight particularly when a unit is ambushed, especially under difficult light and terrain environment," Kensington said.
Tillman, 27, was shot and killed April 22 during a ground convoy assault not far from Khowst, Afghanistan, near the eastern border with Pakistan. Two other coalition soldiers were wounded in the ambush and an Afghan militia force soldier was killed.
The firefight in which Tillman died began about 7:30 p.m. when 10 to 20 ambushers attacked the convoy with mortars and small arms. Tillman's team had already passed the point of attack, but turned back to help, diving into an intensive battle that lasted about 20 minutes.
A statement announcing the Silver Star said that Tillman directed his team to return fire against the fighters, who had attacked from higher ground.
It said that because of Tillman's leadership and his team's efforts, the trail section of the convoy "was able to maneuver through the ambush to positions of safety without a single casualty."
(copied from cnn.com)
More of war. More of what can and inevitably will happen in a war....
We were attacked by a terrorist network not a sovereign opposing national identity. I hate war. I despise it. Even when held for self defense unspeakable acts of atrocity can take place.
I believe that no country can feasibly and with good conscience go to war in this new day of the nuclear era of information. Conventional wars are no longer conventional. New times call for new definitions of the word war. The world has changed. Why invade any country knowing that a terrorist sleeper cell, training camp, mastermind is what we seek? There can be no victory for the people attacked by terrorists. There can only be satisfaction in a newly educated and well informed people whose faith should lie in a trusting government. Terrorism is the war of the future. Who can afford to strike a nuclear capable country with their true identity being displayed on a waving flag? Not a one would want the destruction of the planet. Even the terrorists want a place to call home where their children can grow up to be as infamous as their parents.
This is merely another reason along with so many others such as the prisoner abuse scandal that war must be avoided by all nations in this new day and age.
We must find a way to work with each other as respected nations of the same planet. Long gone is alternative for a conventional war. Here to stay, is the science which has brought us all forward into a required peace. There is no other option. Progress may be slow but we must believe in ourselves that we can create a better world for our children. Anything is possbile if we put our minds to it.
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Roses Are Red And So Am I
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hamsi128
Promising
Supreme Hero
tosser tavern owner
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posted May 29, 2004 06:41 PM |
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consis stop these kind of posts... i dont want to waste my time copy paste link of dead iraqi innocents by american fire..
and for killa there some answers:
1) usa isnt best country in world, becus usa education system didnt teach you to be modest and humble 
2) saddam bought chemical and biological weapons from usa and germany during iran-iraq war... selling weapons and then after 15 years sending inspectors is tragedy
3) lews and others stop telling word 'islamic terrorism' its full snow... imagine italian terrorists bombed a mosque in a arabian country, what you will feel if someone use word catholic-terrorism ?
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quoting my post = bullet in your head
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Consis
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Of Ruby
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posted May 29, 2004 07:16 PM |
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Edited By: Consis on 29 May 2004
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hamsi128,
You don't understand. That is a picture of a guy considered to be an american hero who died last month in Afghanistan.
This article shows that he was killed by friendly fire. In other words, we killed our own hero! Our own troops killed our own troops.
My whole point is that war is "worse than 9/11". We lost close to 3000 people on 9/11 and war will cost a great deal more lives that don't have to die. While american troops are out there "searching for the enemy", they're killing each other! I hate war! War in a world of today only causes more deaths! I HATE WAR!
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Roses Are RedAnd So Am I
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killa_bee
Bad-mannered
Known Hero
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posted May 29, 2004 10:04 PM |
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Regardless of who sold Iraq weapons during what war... the fact is we (the U.S.) left Saddam in power if and only if we could inspect his country for bio weapons man. Hamsi, Saddam without a doubt had something to hide, in my opinion anyways. But... I'm looking forward to the end of all this stuff and looking forward to see the Bush Kerry debate in the months to come.
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Wolfman
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Insomniac
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posted May 29, 2004 11:30 PM |
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Iraq had a weapons program in addition to the ones that were sold to Iraq during the Iraq-Iran war.
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Aquaman333
Famous Hero
of the seven seas
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posted May 30, 2004 03:07 AM |
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Quote:
consis stop these kind of posts... i dont want to waste my time copy paste link of dead iraqi innocents by american fire..
and for killa there some answers:
1) usa isnt best country in world, becus usa education system didnt teach you to be modest and humble
2) saddam bought chemical and biological weapons from usa and germany during iran-iraq war... selling weapons and then after 15 years sending inspectors is tragedy
3) lews and others stop telling word 'islamic terrorism' its full snow... imagine italian terrorists bombed a mosque in a arabian country, what you will feel if someone use word catholic-terrorism ?
1) For the time being it is. I'd like to hear an argument against it.
2) We sold them to him, he betrayed us. It was impossible to predict.
3) Italian terrorists didn't bomb a mosque. The fact is: right now, Islamic terrorists are the "bad guys". If a radical Christian group bombed The Dome of the Rock, then they would be the "bad guys", but until that happens, we have to view the Islamic terrorists as the threat. There is no religous persecution going on except for the terrorists expressing their hatred for non-Islamic groups.
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"Brian, look! There's a message in my Alphabits! It says,
"OOOOOOO!"."
"Peter, those are Cheerios."-Family Guy
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Wolfman
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Insomniac
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posted May 30, 2004 04:06 AM |
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1) We don't have the best education system in the world, we try to educate stupid people. In Europe, they take a test to see what kind of school they go in, the smarter people go on to higher education, while the others go to school to get a job later on. I think this system should be put into effect here.
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Celfious
Promising
Legendary Hero
From earth
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posted May 30, 2004 05:06 AM |
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Quote:
1) usa isnt best country in world, becus usa education system didnt teach you to be modest and humble
Hamsi dose this insinuate that Americans are not modest or humble? You dont know every american or their schools. Infact, you rely on media and word of mouth. hah
If we were in poverty again schools wouldn't need to teach those things. Kids in a store want everything. Thats not humble. Not all americans are kids in a store!
I see everyone as humans thats about it. If skin color, and the place you reside/were born really makes you people who you are then fine. Your not really men after all, you are where you were born, and where you live.
BTW whoever said USA is the best country in the world, I am not with that statement. Everycountry has ups and downs. We have a large economy. There are alot of problems however.
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What are you up to
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Consis
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Of Ruby
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posted May 30, 2004 06:17 AM |
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Edited By: Consis on 30 May 2004
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Not That Anyone Cares Because They Aren't Me...
I like america very much. I like living here and I'm raising my children here. I could move to another country to do this but don't want to. Here are some things that I enjoy as an american:
modernized healthcare science achievements in hospitals and social security(retirement and proper care for elderly)
public schools(required by law to attend)
diverse universities
diverse culture(many races/cultures/nationalities of human)
right to vote
women have more legal rights in america than any other country in the world
astute scholars
accomplished writers
freedom of speech
freedom of press
internet
good police forces
strong government
healthy economy(because of american entrepreneurial spirit)
freedom of religion
advanced science and technology
freedom to travel between states(hop in the car and go)
(did I mention diversity of cultures?)
proud history
prestigious Ivy League schools
Dr. Martin King jr was american
Susan B. Anthony was an american
Abraham Lincoln was american
Lindon B. Johnson was american
John F. Kennedy was american
Dwight D. Eisenhower was american
Franklin Delanore Roosevelt was an american
The Alamo was an american outpost fort
George Herbert Walker Bush(sr.) was an american
America makes entertaining movies, theme parks, and other fun recreational places to go to for vacation
Is all of this to say we don't have our own set of problems? No, we have many problems but so does every country in the world. Although every country in the world has many of the same problems, they do not have many of the same benefits, especially towards women.
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Roses Are RedAnd So Am I
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Wolfman
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Insomniac
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posted May 30, 2004 06:26 AM |
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Quote:
The Alamo was an american outpost fort
*cough*
Actually it was a Texan fort, that is before it was annexed by the U.S.
I'm an American, why isn't my name on that list? 
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IYY
Responsible
Supreme Hero
REDACTED
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posted May 30, 2004 07:19 AM |
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Consis, funny how almost every single one of the points you mentioned above applies to just about any European country, and many others. And listing a bunch of great people from your country is not very impressive, would you like to see a list of famous French or British or Russian people?
As for treatment towards women, you are also not such a unique country. In fact, the USSR had equal rights even before you did.
The US has many good things about it, but those apply to any rich and developed country. And unlike most rich and developed countries, the US goes around attacking countries and torturing prisoners.
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Celfious
Promising
Legendary Hero
From earth
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posted May 30, 2004 08:02 AM |
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IYY no US dose not go around tourturing prisioners. Attacking countries I'm not sure.
The only ones who tortured prisioners were a corupt group of humans. If they were born in europe, and were in the same situation, then would you say Europe goes around torturing prisioners?
And like you yelling at consis, I will say a similar thing you did. Dont forget all the other countries that have been known to tourture a prisioner or kill them with no just reason. Hey also, your remark on equal rights.. Congradulations your a better person cuz the place you were born had equal rights before America. Congradulations on being a better person than me because of this.
Do you hate Americans? If so you have the same ****ed up mentality as hitler! I am an INNOCENT HUMAN and I am a target of idiots and their hatred because of national residency?
Not calling you an idiot, cuz i dont know if you hate someone because they were born into a carved area of the earth.
And consis, IYY is sort of right by saying you shouldn't list Great Americans. Ofcourse he is only pointing these things out because he is against your point. Its called The oposite of favoritism. They will cut your words if they symbolize anything that they dont like.
Theres good things america has contributed to the world and if you cant see the obvious then your defintly unable to see past your own hate. Theres good things alot of places contributed. The haters are the ones who cause hate. Why dont you that hate eachother go live together and let the meek lives of men in no way interested in hating another, have peace without your hate and disruptions. Do something good for good, and quit hating or go on somewhere.
edit also, I dont always agree with consis, and Im not saying I do or dont agree with his list of reasons to like america. But I didnt see him trying to think of things other countries dont have either. I dont see that he was trying to write a list to make us think america is supreme. Its merely a list of things he likes about his life. And if someones gonna get bashed for writng somethin like that then I can see the nature in some men which brings no peace. It is a proodominate nature aswell.
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What are you up to
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hamsi128
Promising
Supreme Hero
tosser tavern owner
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posted May 30, 2004 08:38 AM |
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Quote:
consis stop these kind of posts... i dont want to waste my time copy paste link of dead iraqi innocents by american fire..
and for killa there some answers:
1) usa isnt best country in world, becus usa education system didnt teach you to be modest and humble
2) saddam bought chemical and biological weapons from usa and germany during iran-iraq war... selling weapons and then after 15 years sending inspectors is tragedy
3) lews and others stop telling word 'islamic terrorism' its full snow... imagine italian terrorists bombed a mosque in a arabian country, what you will feel if someone use word catholic-terrorism ?
Some of you didnt understand or i couldnt explain so i write again...
1) i didnt say all americans are not humble and modest i replied to killa..if someone is megaloman and he thinks that he is best he is not humble or modest...
2) all chemical and biological weapons are mass destructive ...
3) to pm ... if we use ''islamic terrorism'' word , all musulmans in world will be in same category with terrorists.... i dont want to be in same category..
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quoting my post = bullet in your head
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Celfious
Promising
Legendary Hero
From earth
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posted May 30, 2004 08:47 AM |
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im sorry hamsi. I just get worried when i think someone is potentialy against the place i live. I find it somewhat threatning. I dont like being a target of hatred because of the carved portion of earth I live on.
I definatly didnt think I knew you would hate me because I live in america but I get concerned and see possible conclusions when words could seem like an attack.
Killa is wrong though, I would sooner belive ther is no best country. I would sooner belive we arent the best country, than to think there is no better. Mabey if Killa was born and raised somewhere else he would say real hateful words to america. I'm not sure.. I dont think he means real offence but who knows?
But I hope that everythings cool. Its all good "/
Edit:
3) Sorry im not saying this but on people saying: "Islamic Terrorists" Its potentialy rude to use it, and especialy on purpose. To say islamic terrorists is definatly over-generalization. It is wrong and I aggree that its use is not good humanity.
This is similar if people started saying "American Torturers" I am so positive that a major HUGE majority of Americans wouldn't torture. If theres some kind of satan that could have inflitrated that prision, then a slight few of americans proved something to God. But Satan isnt everywhere this I know! I am certain that using the term "American torturers" is devestating and brings sadness to innocent people with no control over what a few people did.
America Politics should pay for not being perfect. I know it.. But one thing is for sure. Quality of life assessors better damn well have became very very busy and there should have been alot of job openings for them. (meaning, we should have sent out quality of life assessors, and should maintain doing so for the duration of its nessesity.)
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What are you up to
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Consis
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Of Ruby
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posted May 30, 2004 09:12 AM |
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It Is Something To Be Proud Of
Quote:
listing a bunch of great people from your country is not very impressive, would you like to see a list of famous French or British or Russian people?
IYY,
I disagree. I think great people who help change the world to make it a better place deserve to be mentioned. It is debatable whether their country was the reason for their greatness but it cannot be argued that their country had an influence on them.
Would I like to see a list of famous French, British, or Russian people? Yes ofcourse I would. As I said before we are all on the same planet and of the same kind of being. Together we are humans living on earth. I would be very glad to hear as many famous names from other countries as you have to offer. But I think PrivateHudson should be the one to list famous British names.
I am not supreme or better or above anyone. I am simply proud of my country and the many great achievments that we have accomplished.
Quote:
IYY is sort of right by saying you shouldn't list Great Americans.
Celfious,
I disagree. I have posted great people's names from other countries too, such as the ones for Doomnezeu's country. I also posted them for Germany. I am not being a supreme american that is above everyone. I am simply proud of who I am and where I come from.
If other people want to talk about the great things about their country then I think they should be allowed to. We talk about problems everday. Sometimes it is good to think of the good things in life.
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Roses Are RedAnd So Am I
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Peacemaker
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Peacemaker = double entendre
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posted May 30, 2004 05:37 PM |
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Quote:
3) to pm ... if we use ''islamic terrorism'' word , all musulmans in world will be in same category with terrorists.... i dont want to be in same category..
Thanks hamsi for responding to my earlier IM (I asked hamsi about this issue a few days ago).
The point you make here is critical -- perhaps even deserving of its own thread. The importance of the voice you bring to this issue as a Muslim cannot be overemphasized. I only wish there were more Muslims taking part to balance out this conversation. I sometimes feel like you are left all alone to make these points.
On the one hand, when many of us use the term "islamic terrorism" to refer to the current terrorism in question, the fartherst thing from our minds is to accuse all Muslims of being terrorist.
On the other hand, I also personally know people who think that all Muslims are raised to become terrorists, that the Koran condones and stresses killing all infidels, and that the entire Muslim community is a threat. Furthermore, as you point out, the negative psychological effect of using the phrase "Islamic terrorism" may be greater than we give it credit for being -- especially in the minds of less informed people.
Would you please speak to this issue? What instructions do you take from the Koran? It might be very helpful for you to tell us so that especially the people who believe such negative things can get a better perspective on what Muslims are really like.
Once again, I hope it is alright and not improper that I am asking you to do this.
Finally, do you know why there are so few Muslims taking part in this forum? (I wish we had more!)
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Consis
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Of Ruby
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posted May 30, 2004 06:23 PM |
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I Agree
hamsi128
Yes please, as Peacemaker said, could you talk about the Kuran? I have never read this book. I have never heard a muslim say what he/she thinks about it. Please, it would be very helpful.
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Roses Are RedAnd So Am I
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This thread is pages long: 
