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Lord_Woock
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Daddy Cool with a $90 smile
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posted March 27, 2006 04:27 PM |
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Demi Lich
How come the upgrade to lich is (at least in some places on Age of Heroes) a demilich? Isn't "demi" supposed to be similar in meaning to 'semi' or 'sub', and thus implying partiality or inferiority?
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Yolk and God bless.
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My buddy's doing a webcomic and would certainly appreciate it if you checked it out!
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bloucester
Famous Hero
MSN can go to hell
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posted March 27, 2006 05:11 PM |
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well, i agree. in disciples it is lich and archlich. there should be some reason for that, only i can't figure it out!
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Consis
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Of Ruby
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posted March 27, 2006 05:51 PM |
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Edited by Consis on 27 Mar 2006
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Lord_Woock,
The term, "Demi", has historically been used to denote the power classification of certain non playable characters in a fantasy-fiction setting. It was originally used by Dungeons & Dragons players to help its players to understand, in a general context, how powerful some of their adventuring foes might be when they face them.
I. "Demi" is a fantasy-fiction Advanced Dungeons & Dragons suffix used in two manners.
~~A. The first definition is used to describe "of or partly related to" a kind of race of being. Example: Demihuman (Partly human and partly of another race)
~~B. The second definition is used to describe a range of godlike abilities. In a Dungeons and Dragons setting God NPC's are generally classified as such:
~~~~1. Greater God
~~~~2. Lesser God
~~~~3. Demi God
Each classification of God has certain inherent abilites, characteristics, and spells they have access to.
~Demigod is the lowest form of God classification and it is generally accepted as simply a form of extremely high level player character that has somehow gained immortality. Spells are still spells, items are items, and abilities are abilities.
~Lesser Gods are more powerful than Demigods because not only are they immortal but also have abilities of a higher form. For example: being able to cast a spell without having to memorize it or use any components. (i.e. the spell becomes an ability)
~Greater Gods are those who have everything lesser and demi gods have with the added bonus of planar ownership, planar terrain manipulation, and the one thing that no other being can do: creation. They can create other beings of any level of sentience. Lesser Gods can create certain powerful artifacts but not lifeforms.
So to answer the "DemiLich" question: A demilich is a lich that is much more powerful than other liches. In fact, I believe there can be only one demilich at any given time. This is a lich that does not suffer the penalty of being tied to some cursed object or ritual. It is free to roam without being commanded by anything or anyone. It is a lich not bound by the inherent mark of all undead. It has immortality, spells, inherent undead immunities, and the freedom to choose its own path in unlife/undeath. The high level spells, immunities, undead immortality, and abilities give it the "Demigod" classification. But it has no worshippers, no ability to create artifacts or other lifeforms, and still suffers from an unquenchable thirst for power. It has the freedom to choose but even that is limited to within the psychological sphere of lust for power, will to dominate, selfish hunger for personalized knowledge, etc.
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Roses Are Red And So Am I
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ComradeX
Known Hero
Demands raising new Titan's HP
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posted March 27, 2006 06:15 PM |
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The turm "Demi Lich" means "Half God Lich". The upgraded Lich is a "Devine" Lich, thus being more powerfull. I personaly think that this is wrong, as there is nothing "Devine" about a lich and making it "Devine" is overpowering. I think they should change it to "Arch Lich"
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The frozen land of red Titans wishes you luck in your journeys
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Lord_Woock
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Daddy Cool with a $90 smile
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posted March 27, 2006 07:40 PM |
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ComradeX, "demi" does not imply godlike traits. "Demi" in demigod means nothing more than 'half', examples of demigods being Hercules and Achilles.
EDIT: And Consis, your explanation about Demi Lich meaning Lich Demigod is way off.
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Yolk and God bless.
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My buddy's doing a webcomic and would certainly appreciate it if you checked it out!
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ComradeX
Known Hero
Demands raising new Titan's HP
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posted March 27, 2006 11:02 PM |
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Yes, "Demi" means "half" but in our case it is used to describe the upgraded Lich as "half god" Lich. And by the way, don't you think that Hercules and other demigods posses some god like traits? I think that in the Greek mythology Hercules's Super strength and endurance are considered god like traits.
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The frozen land of red Titans wishes you luck in your journeys
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The_Olympian
Adventuring Hero
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posted March 27, 2006 11:49 PM |
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Quote:
Yes, "Demi" means "half" but in our case it is used to describe the upgraded Lich as "half god" Lich. And by the way, don't you think that Hercules and other demigods posses some god like traits? I think that in the Greek mythology Hercules's Super strength and endurance are considered god like traits.
Then why isn't it called Demi God Lich? It's a little bit misleading, making someone think it's just a half lich. If half is what Demi means, then the makers of the name should have no problem just naming it "Half-Lich"... doesn't sound too powerful, eh?
And as far as Greek Mythology Half Gods... they have god powers because they are titled as such.... Half Gods. Of course they have Godlike powers. They're not called Demi Liches because they don't have Lich Powers. I think that's what Lord Wock is trying to say, anyway.
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Lich_King
Honorable
Supreme Hero
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posted March 28, 2006 12:02 AM |
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So much discussion over a such minor issue, since... The names in the final version will not be same as in beta one, most of them will be the ones we announced in these threads somwhere... So Archlich stays archlich 
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friendofgunnar
Honorable
Legendary Hero
able to speed up time
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posted March 28, 2006 01:09 AM |
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heh heh maybe Gygax just called it demilich because he thought it sounded cool. (hmmm...let's see superlich? grand lich? I know...demilich)
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this post will self-destruct in two days
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Nebuka
Promising
Supreme Hero
Save me Jebus!
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posted March 28, 2006 01:44 AM |
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BG2's demilichs were quite the snowes to fight.
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The_Gootch
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Kneel Before Me Sons of HC!!
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posted March 28, 2006 02:01 AM |
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If you look at historical references for fantasy games, everything goes through D & D. Yes demi is pretty confusing as it denotes something that is subpar.
But that isn't the case for the demilich. The demilich in D & D most certainly was a lich who'd grown to a demigodlike stature. Amazingly, Consis is correct. And that makes you way wrong Woocke.
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Consis
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Of Ruby
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posted March 28, 2006 04:24 AM |
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Edited by Consis on 27 Mar 2006
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*sigh*
You guys can think whatever you want about liches. I truly don't care. But if any of you ever decide to write a novel or design a game that portrays liches as some kind of simpleton monster with nothing but an xp value and treasure then I will toss the book in the garbage, return the game for full refund, etc.
In my opinion, Liches are some of the most rare and deadly beings in the fantasy setting. They have vast stretches of power and knowledge. Their history is rich with greed, hunger for power, search for immortality, and a great deal of luck for having successfully survived the death ritual to become a lich. There's enough story in the ritual itself to fill an entire book. Degrading an all powerful lich makes for an equally degraded protagonist in the story.
Thanks for the approval The_Gootch. I'm glad we agree on something after all this time.
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Roses Are RedAnd So Am I
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Loknar
Adventuring Hero
Missing Links
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posted March 30, 2006 04:47 AM |
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I assumed that the demilich is in between human and lich. The descriptions for the creatures could imply that the liches used up there magical abilities to become liches, while the demiliches as former superior wizards also retained some of there human abilities (their wizardry, that is), making them in-between- or half-liches. But I just conjectured this to make it make sense. The design doesn't support too big a difference between them.
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Khaelo
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Underwater
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posted March 30, 2006 05:46 AM |
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Edited by Khaelo on 29 Mar 2006
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A D&D style demilich.
Wikipedia on Liches:
Quote:
If a lich exists long enough it becomes a demilich. The demilich's interest turns away from the physical realm, instead using astral projection to travel across other planes of existence. The magics preserving the demilich's body against the ravages of time weaken, usually causing the body to gradually deteriorate until only a skull or even a single skeletal hand remains. Despite its ruined body, a demilich is far from powerless; if disturbed, the skull will levitate and suck the souls from nearby living creatures. The most notable demiliches are Acererak, found in the classic adventure Tomb of Horror, and Kangaxx, one of the most powerful adversaries in the PC game Baldur's Gate 2: Shadows of Amn.
(emphasis mine)
If these definitions are acceptable for a demilich, than the "demi-" refers to the creature's partial body, not its powers.
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 Cleverly
disguised as a responsible adult
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Consis
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Of Ruby
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posted March 30, 2006 04:21 PM |
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Wha . . . ?
I never expected to see you in this thread Khaelo. You like this stuff? Why do you even care?
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Roses Are RedAnd So Am I
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Loknar
Adventuring Hero
Missing Links
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posted March 31, 2006 02:35 AM |
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Edited by Loknar on 30 Mar 2006
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I never expected to see you in this thread Khaelo. You like this stuff? Why do you even care?
 … Did anybody step into that wordy yard? …  And it would have been so easy to find out! Khaelo, I'll hand over my custom status to you any time you ask for it!  . LOL
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Khaelo
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Underwater
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posted March 31, 2006 04:18 AM |
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I was following "lich" around the Internet a couple months ago, so the demilich definitions were already familiar territory.
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Miru
Supreme Hero
A leaf in the river of time
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posted April 08, 2006 08:49 PM |
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Demi means half. It doesnt mention what the other half is.
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I wish I were employed by a stupendous paragraph, with capitalized English words and expressions.
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Maslo
Adventuring Hero
Lord of Vampires
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posted April 09, 2006 11:00 AM |
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Khaelo is right. Demilich is a floating skull of a lich. It is very powerfull but it is not god-like!
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doomnezeu
Supreme Hero
Miaumiaumiau
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posted April 09, 2006 01:22 PM |
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Remember NWN - HoTU, when ye go on the Island of The Maker in Underdark, lots of golems, etc, then ye fight the Maker in an underground cavern. He is a demi lich. Upon closer examination to his description, ye will see that it says somwere in the text box something like "demiliches are far more powerful than liches". Dont remember the exact text though.
I guess in all games that follow any edition of AD&D, this rule applies, since 2.0. Or it was 1.0?
Moderator's note:This topic has been closed, as it refers to an older version of the game. To discuss Heroes 3, please go to Library Of Enlightenment, to discuss Heroes 4, please go to War Room Of Axeoth, to discuss Heroes 5, go to Temple Of Ashan.
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