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| Thread: An Elegant Heroes Redesign |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 · NEXT» |
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted September 14, 2007 01:45 PM |
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Edited by Elvin at 18:23, 16 Sep 2007.
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An Elegant Heroes Redesign
As has been discussed before homm 5 is lacking some things compared to previous games of the series. It gives the distinct impression that it was designed more about gameplay functionality and eye candy but missing an underlying sense of humour, storyline depth or as some can argue a soul.
Of course gameplay is the most important but there are various things some pretty easy to implement that could make it so much more fulfilling. A few cosmetic and aesthetic addition would be welcome, no?
For that I have divided the game in some specific sections where there could be some improvements or additions. I'm expecting comments on how you feel about them and what else could be added.
H6 is coming so with any luck it may catch their eye and consider adding a few more things 
They already made a dynamic menu that looks great - can't wait to see the TotE menu screen  - so I'll move on to the loading screen.
LOADING SCREEN
Loading times are rather long and God knows how many hours we have passed looking at a screen while waiting for a game to load 
One thing that could alleviate our pain( ) is to make it so we see a slideshow either from art, screenshots of the map or other that we can customize.
Another is to make it more interactive.
It could have a mini quiz like fahrenheit to pass the time.
The loading word could be waving and you could control its flow with the direction buttons as symphony of the night.
Maybe a pixel hunting game to click on items that appear randomly on the screen.
Also there could be an option to play a sound when the loading bar is full, I don't remember who suggested this
Importance: Low priority but easy to implement.
INTERFACE
The H5 one is not that bad but:
a)It seems chaotic almost randomly distributed across the screen.
b)It misses important(imo) buttons such as sleep, hero and kingdom overview. Army overview could make it there too.
For instance the round thingy to the right with the move/dig, end turn, quests, the mini map in the upper screen and the towns/heroes down in the middle. I will say that I prefer the H3 style where everything is packed and organized together because it allows more buttons to be inserted but also show more of the heroes/towns without covering the map. It is just a better design.
Importance: Medium priority and easy to implement. I like playing with hotkeys but a good interface structure should be given more thought in any game.
HERO SCREEN
Just look at this. One screen for the attributes/artifacts, one for the hero abilities and one for the hero skills. Can you say a waste of space? Those could all have been in the same screen and not look too 'crowded'.
For instance think of the ability screen showing the skills and the respective abilities next to them, the hero stats and modifiers above and to the right the hero doll with the artifacts. The only loss would be that we could not see the hero model.
As an alternative we could have a screen for hero stats and artifacts on the paper doll and one more where the skills and abilities are shown with the hero model next to it. That would be especially good if heroes could acquire advanced classes as in H4 so you could see the difference
Importance: Medium priority and easy to implement. Not bad as it is but it used to be better so they should aim for a better quality. I don't want to remember which hotkey shows which screen it's just redundant.
SPELLBOOK
Here I could thin of two improvements, an artistic and a functional one.
From an artistic point the spellbook misses a spellbook feel. No illustrations as was the background in H4 spellbooks or old-looking pages, no animation of turning the page - remember the magic sparks that appeared in H3?, very few spells per page. The feeling of the old musty tome that contains arcane lore is gone.
On a practical perspective the new spellbook is harder to handle. Why on earth do I have to press A, D instead of the direction arrows? Why is there no arranging the spells per level and instead I have to go through the pages according to when I learnt the spell? The low number of spells per page makes your turn 2-3 pages to find something you want when each magic school's spells could have been in two pages.
Empowered/mass spells could get a different outline so as to be more distinctive.
A quick bar in the combat screen for dragging and using spells would speed up the game.
And of course we need a rune section so that they don't clutter the book's pages.
Importance: Medium priority and not that easy to implement but it is worth it.
CAMPAIGNS
I miss the old animated screens that showed something when you hovered the mouse over them. But also the choice to play more than one campaign from the start. Yes, the H5 campaign is linear but it did not have to be in the sense that dungeon, sylvan and necro are happening at the same time. Suppose haven must be played first, at least make it so that more than one campaigns is unlocked.
Then comes the storyline progression. Yes cutscenes are good(when not too sloppily made as in the original H5) but why do away with the text boxes completely? They can add the depth that a cutscene could never do and is very important in a game where the mood is most important. Funny thoughts of the hero(Thinking hurts too much!-Crag Hack.), fears and daily problems, speculation on what is happening, sending scouts that report their findings and other things cannot be done well in a cutscene and it would be resource consuming so they are done away with. The heroes feel hollow if you get one cutscene per mission whereas you could understand a lot about Gem or Roland Ironfist about what was in the text boxes. Just remember Roland's nightmare about his Kreegan captivity.
I'd propose to have cutscenes only in the beginning and on action sequences but text boxes for the rest. As long as a good writer can be found - get one ubi!
Importance: Very important but requires some effort. Still that can make a game so much more fulfilling and it deserves to be looked into.
MAP EDITOR
You knew this was coming. Many people have complained about it not being user friendly and the scripts are not easy to use either. Personally I am little versed on map making so I'm not the right candidate to make suggestions.
One thing I'd like though would be to have the units in categories according to faction and level. You may find the archmage in the beginning, the titan in the end the rest scattered all over so I have to keep scrolling to find them. Ridiculous.
Importance: Crucial as it ensures survivability. It also requires some work to make it functional and make a better structure.
RANDOM MAP GENERATOR
The current one is a joke not only in the sense of what appears on the map( ) but also on the options for creating a map.
There is no allies option, no water customization, terrain is totally random and may place you in snow while the lucky opponent has grass.
Proposal:
Make it so you pick factions first so that you get native terrain(H3 style) or have an option to disable certain terrains on the towns starting position. Maybe even choose the terrain you start with.
Also the option to disable certain factions from the map so that when you place them random you don't get the ones you excluded AND the ability to customize the AI's agressiveness. You want rushing? Nice choose so. You want exploration? Make it so it does not bullrush you and explores a bit first or disable its ability to see the map.
Also why not have an option to determine the richness of the map - poor-medium-rich.
An option to have a specific type of mainland(say desert or grass) and special modes as king of the hill would boost the replayability.
I'd sure appreciate the towns starting with a fort, tavern and tier 1 dwelling. It's annoying to start at lvl 1-2.
A random tier production military post would be good if it gave the same to all players as well as the addition of border gates.
Importance: Utmost really, fix it no matter what. The H3 one was not that good but I had a lot of fun using it and i don't get this in H5.
MICROMANAGEMENT
We don't really need it, it just disrupts gameplay and consumes time. No need to visit windmills each week and I'm thankful that dwellings now accumulate units that can also be transferred by caravans. Also what is the point of having complex racials like artificer and avenger? Avenger could simply pick the basic unit and count as upgraded too for the purpose of determining favoured enemies. Why not have a scrolling option to pick those units and instead must click through all this list..? The artificer is exceedingly tedious and although original I wish that it could be easier to use. At least the artifacts could increase in value retroactively whenever your knowledge changes.
Importance: High. The game is far from unplayable but that detracts from the fun factor. Also it just takes some thinking of how to make it simpler
BUILDING COSTS
Is there really a reason to make factions that resource intensive? Sure it makes you go for the mines and play more efficiently but it also creates balance problems according to the map. It has probably been used AS a balance meter as Alc suggested but dwarves/academy will just suck in a poor and large map or will breeze through in a rich one. Factions should not benefit so MUCH more when finding themselves in abundance of resources or gold.
If you fear that a town will get too strong by build dwellings AND mage guild as migh factions with light just make the mage guild more expensive.
Importance: Medium, just takes some time to rebelance things and prevent imbalances.
TOWN
Actually the town is rather well designed. Ok it's not easy to turn around the camera to find each specific dwelling but you have a recruitment screen so it's alright. A few minor complaints.
Marketplace should also have the option to send resources to allies and sell artifacts. I think the latter will come with TotE.
About blacksmith I'm glad that you can get all warmachines but triple cost is just too much. Why not just have it double in the non-native ones? 4500 for a ballista with dwarves/academy is simply outrageous.
Tavern. Seriously why is it hard to navigate in there? In seeing the tavern, buying heroes, inspecting heroes and inspecting their units. Overcomplicated for no specific reason. Might be a matter of taste but I hate the way the taverkeeper says the rumours, I prefered the simpler way of H3 rumours.
Now about the recruitment screen it just could be better designed. Whether they are one under the other as they are now or like the H3 style I don't mind but the abilities and stats should show without having to right-click or anything. I want to take a look and see everything without having to check everything separately but also see the unit's screens and of its upgrades.
Importance: Medium and easy to implement.
HEROES
That could surely do with an overhaul. First all all why keep the tradition of bad and good heroes? Some are outright imbalanced as Ossir/Deleb/Ingvar and the list goes on while others are weaklings or mediocre. Don't tell me that it's hard to make heroes more balanced with each other.
Also if you check the portraits thread you will see that along with some cool portraits there are some utterly silly as Nymus with the chandelier. Come on make the portraits more decent, too much originality is bad for one's health.
There are still no female heroes that make picking Jhora or Nur a laughable sight as fat smoking guys. I hope they'll add more models next time.
Finally although it takes more testing it is important that the second hero returns, a faction should have a might and a magic hero. Yes, you can customize a ranger to go might, magic ot hybrid but it's never the same thing or as effective with each other.
Importance: Medium to high, heroes should be given more thought. The game is called might AND magic right? But they should also get equal opportunities.
ORIGINALITY
Ubival had some amazing ideas as spicing the old spells with new functions, creating the racials and so on. However Nival took it too far in some instances. To look original they changed the old cleric and treant to a worse version of themselves. And they butchered the gargoyles turning them into flying cubic tombstones...
At the same time they have copied other franchises, so much for originality. Here is just one sample of their 'work'. Yes I admit that I like them but at least be discreet about it.
Importance: Medium.
STARTING OPTIONS
It would be cool to rethink the starting bonuses. Gold is never an appealing choice when you can get artifact or resources. The amount of gold should be increased.
Also why not separate the resource difficulty from the AI difficulty? You should be able to play on the hardest difficulty with resources on normal/hard. Of course that requires a good AI that is a MUST anyway.
Finally the option to see each faction's creatures or hero's skill and specialty by hovering the mouse/right-clicking where appropriate.
Importance: Low but would offer much.
These for now. Hope to see some constructive feedback, your suggestions could be taken into account for the next game 
And no arguing that they don't read the forums it's pretty apparent that they do!
Edited with new suggestions.
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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MartectX
Adventuring Hero
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posted September 14, 2007 03:16 PM |
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I'd like the option to have the spellbook show all spells in the game, grayed out in the beginning. When you acquire one, it will be changed to the normal coloured symbol. This way you could memorize the positions of spells in your book more easily and click them quicker (important in human vs. human games).
Otherwise: Good suggestions, as always!
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kermit
Known Hero
Soul hunter
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posted September 14, 2007 03:29 PM |
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Quote:
And no arguing that they don't read the forums it's pretty apparent that they do!
You sure?
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emilsn
Legendary Hero
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posted September 14, 2007 03:33 PM |
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Edited by emilsn at 15:33, 14 Sep 2007.
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HERO SCREEN
I like this one - but its a bit confusing from time to time
SPELLBOOK
Atleast they divided the spells in different types - Thats the only thing that make me get through the spellbook menu.. And agree divide it by 1lvl spells and so on.
RANDOM MAP GENERATOR
As you said, a more detailed map generator is must wanted, because it would make the game be more playable for a longer time..
MICROMANAGEMENT
yes! A scroll for favoured enemies!!!
TOWN
I like the tavern and how its more a story the tavern owner tells you. more RP .
ORIGINALITY
Didn't know that the whole Dark elf town was taken from War hammer!
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Don't walk behind me; I may not
lead. Don't walk in front of me;
I may not follow. Just walk
beside me and be my friend.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted September 14, 2007 03:44 PM |
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Ok I guess the tavern part was biased
The spellbook idea with the greyed spells might be fun but it wouldn't feel like scribbling down a new spell rather than having a collection Gotta catch em all
And well most of the things they have added come from our suggestions. Caravans check. Orcs check(they had said no orcs at first). Sell artifacts from marketplace check. Alternative upgrades check. That one was in celestial heavens, I was there when the thread was made.
Maybe it's a coincidence but. I've seen Fabrice check the forums even if rarely(ch).
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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MartectX
Adventuring Hero
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posted September 14, 2007 04:00 PM |
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Quote:
The spellbook idea with the greyed spells might be fun but it wouldn't feel like scribbling down a new spell rather than having a collection Gotta catch em all
That's right, and it would confuse beginners. But that's why I said that I'd like to have the option.
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Orfinn
Supreme Hero
Werewolf Duke
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posted September 14, 2007 04:01 PM |
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Edited by Orfinn at 16:01, 14 Sep 2007.
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Great thread, which deserves a QP!  (too bad I cant give any )
Some things that I think should be in the game, minor but add something anyway.
-When you hover your mouse over your choosen town and right click, you should see which creatures you get.
-Same thing about the heroes, when you right click on one, you should see..at least which speciality they have on offer and which creatures they get at start.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted September 14, 2007 04:04 PM |
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I totally forgot that good idea. And thanks for the thought anyway
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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Orfinn
Supreme Hero
Werewolf Duke
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posted September 14, 2007 04:31 PM |
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Thanks But its actually not a new idea/s this with right clicking for more info town and hero wise. They have been in previous Heroes games, but got dropkicked by unknown reasons in this latest installation 
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Maurice
Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
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posted September 14, 2007 04:45 PM |
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LOADING SCREEN
I don't think much needs to change. If anything, maybe just show several random screens whenever a game is loaded, depending on the game being loaded (i.e.: if you play inferno, you can see one of several screens showing lava and infernal creatures, when you play Sylvan you see several of forests and sylvan critters, etc ...). Perhaps even make them work as a slide show, where the image is being changed every handful of seconds.
INTERFACE
b)It misses important(imo) buttons such as sleep, hero and kingdom overview.
Agreed on this one. It gets old really fast when you have a Hero out on the map guarding an area, and each turn you get a "one of your Heroes can still move ..." message when you end your turn. Sleep = must. Hero overview is nice, especially when you find you are at your Heroes limit somehow and have a few Heroes garrisoned in a Town. Saves you the effort of checking all your town'; also makes it easier for you to select a Hero for dismissal, if you can compare them all together.
Kingdom overview is more or less partially implemented in the top of the screen, with the resources: if you hover your mouse over it (or right-click a resource, I forgot which), you can see the income of that particular resource, with a specification of the various sources contributing to it. However, a Dwelling overview is missing. Income and Dwellings should be more of an overview, though, like in Heroes3: everything bundled together in one view.
HERO SCREEN
There are too many sub-screens at the moment. I fail to see why the Army overview can't be combined with the Artifact overview. The information presented in the Skill overview is also present in the Sub-skill overview (except for the Racial skill overview, but it can be easily added to the Sub-skill screen), so the Skill overview is mainly redundant. The Hero overview could be reduced by two tabs, without too many efforts, and yet preserve the same detailed overview.
SPELLBOOK
I agree that the Heroes3 spell book looked better. It was sorted by spell level first, and then alphabetically, so eventually your spellbook would have the same sorted order from game to game. This is something that is actually fundamental to the ease-of-use of the game, that it should have more attention.
The Spell Icons are also rather brutally large in comparison to Heroes3; in fact, it feels like you're reading a paper in 24-dot or larger: it's just somewhat annoying. I wouldn't mind having smaller icons. In addition to this, I would not mind seeing slightly different icons for Empowered and for Mass spells, to set them somewhat apart from their regular counterparts.
Alternatively, I would suggest the addition of "spell hotkeys" to the right side of the battle screen, where you have the icons of the spells and abilities that are available. In the case of the Hero's turn, you can pre-set a set of 4 (or 3 or 5, whatever is useful) spells and abilities which can be triggered from the hotkey bar. In the case of a turn of a creature that has a spellbook, the icons of that creature's abilities appear in that menu. This makes for "click-and-point" of that special ability, instead of "click-click-and-point" (or worse). Since you use abilities and the spellbook quite often, that saves a ton of mouse clicks in the long run.
Think of the hotkey bar as a display of spells and abilities, much like the initiative bar shows the creatures and Heroes, only then vertical along the right side of the screen.
CAMPAIGNS
Agreed, the non-linear nature of the campaigns in Heroes3 was something I always liked. As you progress through the game, your options narrow, the plot thickens and it starts to build up to the grand finale.
MAP EDITOR
A tree structure of objects, grouped logically together, would be much better and save much scrolling, over using a linear list sorted alphabetically.
RANDOM MAP GENERATOR
I have a few things to note here as well. As you already said, you can't choose a water-based map. However, there are more options to be had. Deep inland (current version), coastal, island. An option to choose the "main" land type (Desert, Snow, etc ...) is also missing. Special game types: "King of the Hill" where one player is in the center of the map, well-defended with a lot of resources and dwellings, facing off against the other players who are allied together; "Massacre", where every player starts with a fully maximized town and plenty of resources, with lots of dwellings around; "No mans land", with hardly any natural barriers; "Ramparts", with lots of natural barriers and border guards and garrisoned gates.
Object randomization is also lacking; in the current form, the RMG selects specific creature types to place on the map, it selects specific Resource types and specific Artifacts. You cannot tell it to keep it "random" from game to game; once the map is made, those selections are solid, it never uses the "Random" object that is readily available for map makers.
The "random" aspect I suggest should be having a number of additional options:
- Resources: "Full Random", or "Gold / Rare / Common"
- Creatures: "Full Random", "Same-Tier Random" or "Same random according to Town / Dwelling at location X, Y".
- Artifacts: "Full Random" or "Major / Minor / Trinket"
Since the randomizer determines the Artifact and Resource guards based on their values, I guess that they should be linked accordingly when a game is created. In that same light, and on grounds of gameplay balance, the "Full Random" option should never be the default, but instead one of the other options I listed above.
Also, the RMG should allow the creator the placement of the Grail artifact.
MICROMANAGEMENT
Agreed that the Avenger specialty and the Artificer specialty should be revamped. A tree-structure where you first select the Race and then the creature belonging to that Race (from a scrollbar) would be much easier to use. Especially when the distinction between normal and upgraded versions of a creature are discarded. Careful attention should be paid to the balance, however, as this distinction does impact the usefulness and strength of the Avenger skill. However, this is something they must already consider with the TotE expansion, as the number of creatures increases by about 35%, as every creature gets a secondary upgrade.
I suspect the Artificer skill was actually intended slightly differently, due to the various different looking artifacts that can be created - and I mean their icons, not their stats. Currently, the various icons are eye-candy only and therefore pretty useless. An easier interface to assemble, equip and destroy such artifacts is in my humble opinion badly needed.
The way Necromancy works at the moment is fairly good, if you ask me. However, to see the number of remaining "Dark Energy" points is not easy - if not impossible. There needs to be a better way to see how many points of Dark Energy a player has currently and what the maximum will be. Perhaps there could be a number in the spellbook exactly like the one for mana.
BUILDING COSTS
No comments here.
TOWN
Agreed on the Blacksmith. No comments on the rest.
HEROES
You mentioned Might Heroes and Magic Heroes; this is something I really liked in Heroes3 and something I miss in Heroes5, for sure. Might Heroes have a bigger chance on increases in ATK and DEF, while Magic Heroes have a bigger chance on increases in SPE and KNO, in Heroes3 - set off against the standard settings for the various races. It should not be too hard to do the same within the Heroes5 universe.
ORIGINALITY
No comments.
STARTING OPTIONS
Resource difficulty should indeed be separate from AI difficulty. It's one of the prime reasons I do not play often against Heroic or Hard.
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Maurice
Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
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posted September 14, 2007 04:54 PM |
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One thing I forgot to mention is the way Caravans work. Currently, you select them from the list in the recruitment screen. However, when a Dwelling you own has somehow been blocked (by an enemy Hero, or a Neutral creature that popped up during a "Week of the ..."), the Dwelling totally drops off the list. Instead of dropping off, it should be shown greyed-out, so the player becomes aware that a Dwelling is available, but blocked.
A better way to represent these Dwellings is also needed, as the list becomes too hard to handle with a large number of Dwellings (even despite being sorted based on days of travel for the Caravan).
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kermit
Known Hero
Soul hunter
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posted September 14, 2007 05:57 PM |
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Edited by kermit at 18:01, 14 Sep 2007.
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Yes interface design could have been better, but for me the key aspects that future Heroes games should focus on are:
1: AI !!! Most important thing in a strategy game lol !!!
2: Spell balance : more variety, more balance, less abuse please
3: Faction balancing ... enough said
4: Map navigation ... the 3D map is a plain pain to navigate, slow scrolling, unreliable clicking, need to turn camera all the time (especially undergound). Just make a decent automatic camera view. Perhaps less high things (like walls), so that you can see better.
5: AI player turns ... why do they take so long?
6: Charismatic Heroes: I miss the originality of the earlier HOMM heroes. Their comic design was one of the things that made Heroes stand out. Nowadays they look just like any other RPG game.
7: Interface , Kingdom/Hero Overview would be muchly apreciated
8: Micro management: Not needed, faster paced games without it
9: Reinforcements: using secondary heroes is a time consuming procedure, maybe use the Heroes4 system where creatures had their own movement capacity.
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted September 14, 2007 06:26 PM |
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Quote:
SPELLBOOK
Here I could thin of two improvements, an artistic and a functional one.
From an artistic point the spellbook misses a spellbook feel. No illustrations as was the background in H4 spellbooks or old-looking pages, no animation of turning the page - remember the magic sparks that appeared in H3?, very few spells per page. The feeling of the old musty tome that contains arcane lore is gone.
On a practical perspective the new spellbook is harder to handle. Why on earth do I have to press A, D instead of the direction arrows? Why is there no arranging the spells per level and instead I have to go through the pages according to when I learnt the spell? The low number of spells per page makes your turn 2-3 pages to find something you want when each magic school's spells could have been in two pages.
Importance: Medium priority and not that easy to implement but it is worth it.
I will return to this topic, but just want to leave this note while I remember it.
I agree that the Spellbook is disastrous in its lack of organization. Why the **** are spells arranged by the order you learn them rather than schools and levels!?
A very elegant suggestion for Spellbook redesign was done by Sindbad in this thread, I'll repost the picture here for simplicity. This is quite elegant, and if spells were furthermore arranged by level, it would be a joy to handle!
PS. Notice the nifty detail of letting you choose to cast the spell at reduced level, and thus reduced effectivity, at lower mana cost.
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What will happen now?
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phoenixreborn
Promising
Legendary Hero
Unicorn
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posted September 14, 2007 06:37 PM |
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I don't really understand the spell book fuss. There aren't that many spells. If I'm really having trouble finding one I use the spell school seperator button on the side.
And with all due respect, I guess that picture was just an example, but those spells are not organized either.
Is it really desirable to cast a spell with less mastery for less mana? Probably yes, but don't forget about the orc shatter skills.
Edit: For example if you put them by spell level you'd always be flipping the page to get to the level 5 spells. The way it is now if you limit to one school you often have the spell right there on that page.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted September 14, 2007 06:59 PM |
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Some good recommendations. I'll take a look later when I have the time.
____________
H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted September 14, 2007 07:04 PM |
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Well, sorting the spells by level would not remove the option of having them all in one page when you have only few or of having the spellbook open on the last page you used.
And no, those spells are not organized by class, but this shows an, in my oppinion, quite nice way of displaying the spells in "general view". If you hit the respective school fan, they would be sorted out, obviously.
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What will happen now?
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Maurice
Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
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posted September 14, 2007 07:10 PM |
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Quote:
5: AI player turns ... why do they take so long?
In my experience, there is only one moment from where on the game takes ages on AI player turns: when the AI Hero(es) reaches level 15. The reason for this is the Instant Travel spell, an adventure map spell that is learned at level 15.
Through that spell, the CPU suddenly has the option to skip all natural barriers in place on the map, multiplying its travel options by truckloads. And it has to calculate them all ...
Because of this, I *always* disable the Instant Travel spell in the (random) maps I am creating.
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yasmiel
Supreme Hero
Former Chessmaster
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posted September 14, 2007 07:22 PM |
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I agree on most parts. One thing i dont like would be adding 2 types of heroes to a town. In the end we would get h3 situation where everyone would pick might. There is no need for it, but at least 2 more heroes per faction would be nice.
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Maurice
Hero of Order
Part of the furniture
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posted September 14, 2007 07:49 PM |
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Quote:
I agree on most parts. One thing i dont like would be adding 2 types of heroes to a town. In the end we would get h3 situation where everyone would pick might. There is no need for it, but at least 2 more heroes per faction would be nice.
Everyone picked might in H3? I usually went for Magic there - but then again, I never played it multiplayer.
A few more things that I thought of:
- Map Editor: The Map Editor has a "Random Dwelling" for Tier 4 through Tier 7; however, this Random version can only support one Tier only. I would like to see a Random Dwelling for Tier 4 through 7 that can support any and all combinations of Tier 4, 5, 6 and 7, in one and the same Dwelling.
- Game object: Border Gates (not to be confused with Border Guards). In H3 we had persistent Gates that you could pass through with the proper key, but they remained on the map instead of being "one-time-only" buildings. They were used in both bad and good ways (bad: keeping players from capturing specific AI controlled towns; good: forcing different players to travel different routes to the same area), I would love to see them back. They can add strategic elements to a map.
- Game object: Garrisons. I would love it if they could be expanded, by having a wall and a single tower. Capturing a Garrison will then act more or less like a Castle siege, where you have a Trebuchet to destroy the wall. The tower can be occupied with a ranged unit by the defender, giving the ranged unit more range and protection. Perhaps even have garrisons with two (or perhaps even three) towers. Of course, when a tower is destroyed, the unit inside also suffers damage accordingly.
- Game object: External Dwellings upgrade. Right now you can only get base creatures from external Dwellings. I would like it if players could upgrade their external Dwellings at a resource investment (Hero needs to be present to upgrade it). Units of the proper creature type can then be upgraded there and the upgraded version can be recruited as well. The graphic on the map should also change to reflect this. Availability of the Dwelling upgrade can be disallowed of course, just as building construction can be disallowed in Towns. Careful attention should be paid to the Military Outposts, since they can be used to recruit several Tiers of creatures (4 through 7).
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Neckie
Hired Hero
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posted September 14, 2007 07:51 PM |
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MAP EDITOR
One thing I'd like though would be to have the units in categories according to faction and level. You may find the archmage in the beginning, the titan in the end the rest scattered all over so I have to keep scrolling to find them. Ridiculous.
This can easily be done by editing the mapfilters.xml file in the Editor folder.
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HEROES
Finally although it takes more testing it is important that the second hero returns, a faction should have a might and a magic hero. Yes, you can customize a ranger to go might, magic ot hybrid but it's never the same thing or as effective with each other.
Totally agree!
One good feature if they keep the same combat options for the heroes would be to increase the melee damage the might hero would do.
They should have different feats than magic heroes but the same skills. This mean that maybe they would have the same basic skills and perks but the feats would be different between might and magic heroes. The might hero would have 3-4 (instead of 1 or 2) feats in might oriented skills and none or 1 racial feat for magic skills and the opposite would be true for magic heroes.
For example the knight (might) would have Power of speed, retribution, the 3 basic perks and 2 new feats in the offense skill. But would still have to choose the 3 he wants. He wouldn't have the possibility to learn refined mana but he still could learn guardian angel.
It would cause problem for the ultimate ability though.
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