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| Thread: Discussion on Water-oriented faction |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 · NEXT» |
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Malgore
Adventuring Hero
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posted March 24, 2008 04:40 PM |
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Edited by Malgore at 16:16, 14 Apr 2008.
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Yet another version of Water-oriented faction
Hi all!
After reading topics of this forum I came to idea that many people want to see some good ol' swampy things back.
Also there are some clues about Shalassa, Dragon of water, that was worshiped by Nagas.
So here some ideas about setting up a Water-Swamp faction in Heroes VI.
I. Lore
The Bastion faction is Lawful Evil or Neutral Evil, and has similar approach to outsiders as Dungeon. Since problems of the "dry land" have little effect on this faction, Bastion armies will join any faction to reach their aims, for they care little for "walking ones".
The racial skill is the art of Mutation/Morphing - the ability to shapeshift troops for specific goals directly on the field of battle. This means that Bastion hero can re-upgrade units during the battle instead of bringing them to town for re-upgrade. Special perks concern poison attack and regeneration abilities (and so on).
II. Creatures
Tier 1 – Troglodyte - walker, resembling H3 Dungeon geek.
Upgrades - Troglodyte Acolyte / Troglodyte Hunter
Tier 2 – Lizard Warrior - shooter.
Upgrades - Lizard Scavenger / Lizard Seeker
Tier 3 – Basilisk - walker, tanking unit, resembling H3.
Upgrades - Greater Basilisk / Vile Basilisk
Tier 4 – Wyrm - fast walker, gas cloud attack.
Upgrades - Razorwyrm / Venomtongue
Tier 5 – Gorgon - caster, has visually nothing to do with old Gorgon, but has an ability of Death Stare.
Upgrades - Medusa Gorgon / Echidna Gorgon
Tier 6 - Naga - fast walker, resembling H3 Tower geek
Upgrades - Naga Ancient (caster) / Naga Bladestorm
Tier 7 – Kraken - tanking unit that can teleport ones in battle.
Upgrades - Deathweaver / Deep One
That's it for a start. 
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Warmonger
Promising
Legendary Hero
fallen artist
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posted March 24, 2008 06:06 PM |
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xerox
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
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posted March 24, 2008 08:32 PM |
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What has wikipedia to do with this heroes 6 thread?
I dont think you should use Dragons as tier 7, there are to many dragons. Use Wyrms, Leviathans, Krakens or Hydras.
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Over himself, over his own
body and
mind, the individual is
sovereign.
- John Stuart Mill
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sith_of_ziost
Promising
Supreme Hero
Scouting the Multiverse
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posted March 24, 2008 08:50 PM |
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It is directly cited on the Heroes Wikia that the Naga worship Shalassa. They just did not make it into Heroes V.
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Malgore
Adventuring Hero
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posted March 25, 2008 08:06 AM |
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Edited by Malgore at 08:11, 25 Mar 2008.
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Malgore
Adventuring Hero
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posted March 25, 2008 08:20 AM |
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Quote:
What has wikipedia to do with this heroes 6 thread?
I dont think you should use Dragons as tier 7, there are to many dragons. Use Wyrms, Leviathans, Krakens or Hydras.
Agreed. Changed to Kraken.
As for the concept:
The inspiration for Naga city might be found in Lovecraft stories. Strange outlandish creatures that worship exotic gods. These creatures will not share common goals and have unusual thought pattern - they care little for "dry land" and care little even about themselves for everything should be done for their cult.
I've seen some ideas about "merry merfolk" for Heroes and I guess they will be the same as Sylvan - protect the nature ocean and we'll be friends. So it's pretty dull concept.
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Warmonger
Promising
Legendary Hero
fallen artist
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posted March 25, 2008 08:41 AM |
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I'm not a very big fna of such concept, as linking the faction to sea will somehow break the game balance on certain maps.
It reminds me funny sea monsters owning the oceans in H4. This faction must have some bonus to sailing, maybe get some version of ritual which can be used only at the seaside?
Quote:
The racial skill is the art of Mutation/Morphing - the ability to shapeshift troops for specific goals directly on the field of battle. This means that Bastion hero can re-upgrade units during the battle instead of bringing them to town for re-upgrade. Special perks concern poison attack and regeneration abilities (and so on).
Although some weeks ago I posted identical concept on one of the polish forums, we can go elsewhere.
My proposal for the unique mechanics is Drain - draining spells and abilities from enemy units, dispelling, resistance etc. - just choose. How it will be done exactly is up to discussion, but I believe it could make some sense for water, mysterious creatures.
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Sargeras
Known Hero
the Fallen
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posted March 25, 2008 09:16 AM |
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IMO you certainly need nagas  ...then there is some good ideas u can take then change from other games like TR, Halo...
Amoeboid - cold vulnerability, virulence - can spit slime and prevent range creatures from shooting
Kael - lobster like creature with ground pound that can brake walls in castle sieges or similar
Miasma - can drain creature energy to bolster self defense
Flood Juggernaut
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Now they shall be consumed by the very flame they sought to control...
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Malgore
Adventuring Hero
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posted March 26, 2008 09:22 AM |
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Quote:
I'm not a very big fna of such concept, as linking the faction to sea will somehow break the game balance on certain maps.
It reminds me funny sea monsters owning the oceans in H4. This faction must have some bonus to sailing, maybe get some version of ritual which can be used only at the seaside?
Well, according to current game mechanics, Nagas might receive special Logistics perks - something like Swift Embarking (no penalty for boarding the boats), Seafarer (40% Bonus for sailing), Boarding Assault (Movement/Initiative bonus for sea battles) and etc...
Quote:
My proposal for the unique mechanics is Drain - draining spells and abilities from enemy units, dispelling, resistance etc. - just choose. How it will be done exactly is up to discussion, but I believe it could make some sense for water, mysterious creatures.
Draining suits well for Evil things. I guess units with draining should have vampiric-like abilities and hero should be able to perform special attack (Mark of Naga?) that will drain mana from spellcasting units.
As for the Nagas alignment - take a look at existing dragons alignments:
Elrath(Haven), the Dragon of Light - Lawful Good
Arkath(Fortress), the Dragon of Fire - Neutral Good
Sylath(Stronghold), the Dragon of Air - Chaotic Neutral
Sylanna(Sylvan), the Dragon of Earth - True Neutral
Malassa(Dungeon), the Dragon of Darkness - Neutral Evil
Shalassa(Naga), the Dragon of Water - Lawful Evil
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Orfinn
Supreme Hero
Werewolf Duke
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posted March 26, 2008 02:24 PM |
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Edited by Orfinn at 14:27, 26 Mar 2008.
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Quote:
Sylath(Stronghold), the Dragon of Air
Really? I didnt think they worshipped any elemental Dragon God, just the elemental aspects of nature, father sky, mother earth dosent neccessarily mean dragon gods. I would put in The Free Cities Of The East, Citadel etc - Lawful Neutral instead...they worship Sylath, or as they call him in Dark Messiah...Ylath  Maybe its the dragon son of Sylath?
Also Flood Juggernaut is the pure calcium aspect of the Flood forces. How tha "insert swearing" could that thing fit in a water based town? 
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Cepheus
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Far-flung Keeper
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posted March 26, 2008 04:49 PM |
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Well... we have a Naga Temple in TotE which resembles a pagoda, and in Dark Messiah one can find Naga Silkswords with a distinct far-eastern style. So it's obvious that Ubival already have plans for samurai-Nagas, akin to Heroes III...
If you're going to invent a faction on them and send it in to the developers you'll want to include these elements.
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bixie
Promising
Legendary Hero
my common sense is tingling!
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posted March 26, 2008 05:06 PM |
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I have my doubts about everyones instant association with naga's and swamps. They are just as likely to live in a clear blue sea as a swamp, more so in fact, especially since they worship the dragon of water rather than of swamps.
also, wouldn't it make more sense for them to live in clear water?
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Love, Laugh, Learn, Live.
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Daystar
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Back from the Dead
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posted March 26, 2008 06:34 PM |
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Quote:
Elrath(Haven), the Dragon of Light - Lawful Good
Arkath(Fortress), the Dragon of Fire - Neutral Good
Sylath(Stronghold), the Dragon of Air - Chaotic Neutral
Sylanna(Sylvan), the Dragon of Earth - True Neutral
Malassa(Dungeon), the Dragon of Darkness - Neutral Evil
Shalassa(Naga), the Dragon of Water - Lawful Evil
Hmm, how interesting, all the females are evil.
I think it would be more like this:
Elrath - Lawful Good
Sylanna - Chaotic Good
Shallassa - Lawful Neutral
Sylath - Chaotic Neutral
Malassa - Lawful Evil
Arkath - Chaotic Evil
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How exactly is luck a skill?
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xerox
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
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posted April 01, 2008 09:14 PM |
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Erm.. we dont know if all dragons are good or bad.
Noone has said like "that dragon is reallllyyy bad and that one good" in the game.
We only know Urgash is evil and Asha is good.
For my heroes six i will create a naga water town.
The town view is under water.
You start above the water and then the camera dives down.
It would have a sea creature theme and a Atlantis concept.
Creature line-up.
1. Water Nymph-Naiad Princess or Sea Horse-Sea Guard
2. Sea Elf-Mermaid Amazon/Merman Murmillo
3. Gorgon-Medusa/Stheno
4. Sea Serpent-Scylla Serpent or Giant Turtle-Siege Walker
5. Nereid-Silver Melusine/Siren Witch
6. Queen-Blood Queen or Coatl-Quetzalcoatl
7. Colossal Squid - Horror Lusca - Maelstrom Kraken
Grail Creature. LEVIATHAN
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Daystar
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Back from the Dead
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posted April 01, 2008 10:13 PM |
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I don't know that Asha is good or Urgash Evil. They are just order and Chaos, neither of which is neccessarily good, nor necessarily evil.
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How exactly is luck a skill?
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baklava
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Mostly harmless
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posted April 01, 2008 11:59 PM |
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Edited by baklava at 00:09, 02 Apr 2008.
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Quote:
Hmm, how interesting, all the females are evil.
Dude you really crack me up sometimes
On topic, how can you fit DnD alignments here?
For starters, Asha is the dragon of order. She created all dragons except Urgash.
How can someone (Sylath in this case) be chaotic neutral if he's created by a dragon of order, serves the dragon of order, and is against the dragon of chaos?
There are no defined alignments in Heroes 5 as far as I've noticed anyway.
And, if you insist, it would be more rational if nagas were lawful neutral anyway. IMO at least.
Quote:
I don't know that Asha is good or Urgash Evil. They are just order and Chaos, neither of which is neccessarily good, nor necessarily evil.
Well, demons of flame and shadow who live in a place called Hell and seek to conquer, pillage and destroy everything do imply an overall evilish tone of their master's alignment...
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"Let me tell you what the blues
is. When you ain't got no
money,
you got the blues."
Howlin Wolf
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Gnoll_Mage
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted April 02, 2008 12:01 AM |
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I agree with DS / baklava (the pervasiveness of the whole good / lawful stuff annoys me a bit tbh), and also with bixie - I think Nagas work better as clear-water `pristine` creatures, maybe with Medusas in the swamps.
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Sargeras
Known Hero
the Fallen
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posted April 02, 2008 09:31 AM |
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Alignments aren't important and shouldn't be applied in H5 IMHO...
...and for Nagas it's not obligation to be water based, in myth and fiction there is mention that they can live high atop mountains and deep in caverns but what's relevant is that they are snakelikes
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Now they shall be consumed by the very flame they sought to control...
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Malgore
Adventuring Hero
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posted April 03, 2008 02:32 PM |
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Quote:
I have my doubts about everyones instant association with naga's and swamps. They are just as likely to live in a clear blue sea as a swamp, more so in fact, especially since they worship the dragon of water rather than of swamps.
also, wouldn't it make more sense for them to live in clear water?
Living in clear water is not evil. That is the main reason behind Swamp naga.
Quote:
Hmm, how interesting, all the females are evil.
I think it would be more like this:
Elrath - Lawful Good
Sylanna - Chaotic Good
Shallassa - Lawful Neutral
Sylath - Chaotic Neutral
Malassa - Lawful Evil
Arkath - Chaotic Evil
As far as I understood Arkath is worshiped currently by dwarfs. And they are not Evil, obviously...
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Malgore
Adventuring Hero
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posted April 03, 2008 02:37 PM |
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Quote:
How can someone (Sylath in this case) be chaotic neutral if he's created by a dragon of order, serves the dragon of order, and is against the dragon of chaos?
There are no defined alignments in Heroes 5 as far as I've noticed anyway.
Chaos and Order differ in DnD and H5. Nevertheless DnD alignment characteristics suit quite well for some H5 factions.
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