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| Thread: OMG You Guys Won't Believe This: Mother Owes For Illegal Downloads |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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baklava
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posted June 21, 2009 11:50 AM |
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Edited by baklava at 11:53, 21 Jun 2009.
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They didn't punish this woman cause they'll punish anyone who downloads some songs. Of course not - half of the planet would die of starvation.
No, they punished her as an example - to spread fear. And I will not be intimidated by corporate suits who are too afraid of having to wait another week for their new swimming pool cause people downloaded an mp3 file.
The average pay here in Serbia is a shyteload lower than in the west; whereas the prices of original music, games and programs are the same (if not higher). Why don't companies lower the prices for poorer markets? Exactly - it's not their problem. By the same analogy, it's not my problem whether they lose 1 or 2% of their annual millions in order for people to listen to some music.
Never mind. It's their thing if they'll try and catch online sharers. It's our thing whether we'll be cautious enough not to get caught. As Motorhead sings, "if that's how it has to be, it's not so bad". 
EDIT
Just realized Doomforge said the same thing. ^^ Nevermind.
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Doomforge
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posted June 21, 2009 11:51 AM |
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But your logic is flawed. People who CAN afford it DO download it for free. And it is because of these sites where people who CAN'T afford it post or take music from. So it DOES affect the business' bottom line. Of course, now you'll say "What other people do, I have no control over." but hey...go ahead.
What makes you think so? Perhaps the rich are the ones that give profits to those companies (after all singers did bought their fourth yacht because of the profits...ohhh those poor, mistreated arists!  ) and only the poor are pirates?
You have no access to such statistics and so don't I.
We can only guess, and guess is not an argument.
So let's skip that matter. I speak on behalf of myself, and my logic is based on my life obviously: can't speak for the crowd. But hey, you can't do it, too 
Baklava:  you rule man. Yeah, it's us of poor countries that are the "pirates", and for a good reason.
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Binabik
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posted June 21, 2009 11:55 AM |
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Doomforge? You know, it's allowable to not do something simply because it's wrong. You are asking who it hurts? The answer is you.
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Doomforge
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posted June 21, 2009 11:57 AM |
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Doomforge? You know, it's allowable to not do something simply because it's wrong. You are asking who it hurts? The answer is you.
Please provide a proof that it is.
Stealing is wrong because you're causing direct harm to someone - or precisely, to his pocket. So is murder, rape and so on.
Copying is bad becasue.... because? Because someone can't stand me having something I can't afford anyway. By knocking it off my hands, he won't force me to buy it from him. I will simply not have it. That will be the only outcome.
In other words, copying does not hurt anybody, and the concept of intellectual property is invalid.
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Mytical
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posted June 21, 2009 12:00 PM |
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That is just the thing Baklava. It doesn't only affect the 'rich' executives. Which is what I don't understand why this is hard to grasp. It affects everybody who works for that company, down to the guy who sweeps the floor. They don't make the money, they lay off or fire people. The higher ups (that executive guy) doesn't actually feel that pinch as much as the people they let go do (like said janitor). Guess that doesn't inter in the equation tho..huh?
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Doomforge
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posted June 21, 2009 12:03 PM |
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That is just the thing Baklava. It doesn't only affect the 'rich' executives. Which is what I don't understand why this is hard to grasp. It affects everybody who works for that company, down to the guy who sweeps the floor. They don't make the money, they lay off or fire people. The higher ups (that executive guy) doesn't actually feel that pinch as much as the people they let go do (like said janitor). Guess that doesn't inter in the equation tho..huh?
lol since when the janitor gets paid based on how well the company prospers?
He has a job to do, here or elsewhere. He gets paid based on what he does, NOT on how well the company fares.
It's the rich lawsuits that BENEFIT from better faring of the company.
I thought it's obvious. Oh and I don't see people getting fired of any record company, especially not janitors lol. They are all doing extremely well.
You seem to follow the logic of: they get rich-> they create more work places -> they give people work -> it's good. But it's (imho, sorry if it feels offensive or smth) a silly logic. Because more work places are tied to production, not distribution. It really doesn't matter wheter you pick three CDs instead of one: they don't need more people to distribute it, record it and sell it. They only sell more. Who would create a new workplace if it's NOT NECESSARY? NOBODY.
And on what purpose would a new workplace be necessary?
There won't be more artists, obviously.
The number of songs is limited and the recording doesn't depend on how well it sells - the artist won't obviously throw more songs based on how well they sell. So no need for more technical staff.
And so on. Only the profit rises, the number of employees does NOT.
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Mytical
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posted June 21, 2009 12:06 PM |
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Edited by Mytical at 12:12, 21 Jun 2009.
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No, the jobs available are directly in proportion to how well a company is doing. When they 'downsize' because of lost profit, do you think it is the executives who hurt? Absolutely not. Look at AIG. Hundreds of thousands of people out of work, but their executives gets millions in bonuses. You know what tho, I am done with this conversation (at least for now). I only hit my head up against the wall so many times.
Edit : People like to think of corporations as faceless suits who all drive big cars and live in big houses. Sad fact folks..this is just not true.
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Rarensu
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Formerly known as RTI
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posted June 21, 2009 12:06 PM |
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Quote:
Quote:
Give your intellectual property away for free
In other words I'm supposed to starve to death just because you want to steal my intellectual property from me because it's not something physical that you can pick up and has mass? I make my living creating ones and zeros and you want me to work for free?
I never said you work for free. I believe that people who create value should be rewarded. I just said you don't get paid by your fans.
Instead, you get paid by companies who want to advertise to your fans. You get paid by people who sell T-shirts & stuff to your fans. You get paid by advertising firms who want you to appear in their commercials. Your fans never pay you, but you still make a fortune. It's actually a much better business model, if you look at the history of intellectual products.
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Doomforge
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posted June 21, 2009 12:11 PM |
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No, the jobs available are directly in proportion to how well a company is doing. When they 'downsize' because of lost profit, do you think it is the executives who hurt? Absolutely not. Look at AIG. Hundreds of thousands of people out of work, but their executives gets millions in bonuses. You know what tho, I am done with this conversation. I only hit my head up against the wall so many times.
I have the same feeling. And no, janitors don't get fired, neither does production line (excluding non-profitable production). Try reading some about the strategy of restructuring a failing company. I had an exam in college about it recently, I can send you 50 pages of notes on that matter 
And back to what I was saying: there will be no profit for them if I don't buy the song. There will be no profit for them if I copy it. So what's the problem? I won't give them profits anyway. They won't get a penny from me either way, so they should either make me WANT to buy their products, or shut up and stop forming lobbies to pass on ridiculous concepts in courts.
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Mytical
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posted June 21, 2009 12:16 PM |
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Rofl..oh my sorry that one made me giggle. I guess AIG never happend. Woot. I am glad to hear that. I guess that GM never closed down any plants or cancelled any contracts with car lots..or .. wow that is a load off my mind. Sorry..I've actually WORKED in big business. Had to lay people off, and believe me it wasn't the suits who were getting laid off. It was the janitors, and the production workers..and people who lived pay check to pay check. While Management spent a million on redecorating, bonuses for their fat hinnys, and such.
Ok, ok I will behave...
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xerdux
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posted June 21, 2009 12:18 PM |
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Edited by xerdux at 12:20, 21 Jun 2009.
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"Piracy" in this way is far from stealing. I hate when people compares it to theft. Its more like the opposite, sharing.
The music producers etc still earn lots of money, they are only greedy. File sharing just spreads music and culture among all countries.
However there should be a small monthly fee of maybe 5 euro only a month to download or something.
In Sweden, the Pirate Party (lol english translation >.> Piratpartiet PP) is one of the largets political factions at the moment, and its increasing. Its the largest political faction on people between 18 and 30 years old.
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majaczek
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Work at Magic Dimmension
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posted June 21, 2009 01:35 PM |
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Edited by majaczek at 13:35, 21 Jun 2009.
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really sharing is stealing?
if sharing is stealing, so if the people listen to cd in car too loudly, so the other hear it's sharing... and if we wan't to punish they, give them a fee to pay?
out of this if sharing PROTECTED materials is stealing, there ar eamny materials we are free to copy: giftware, freware, GPL, BSD, public domain etc.
so should we ban file sharing service to make them dead? I don't think so. Closing/Banning internet services without all needed prooves - THIS IS STEALING ! The few uncompetent Jurys grabbed millions/billions of people - that what i said. The share services has a place to live without do something illegal.
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Doomforge
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posted June 21, 2009 01:38 PM |
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Rofl..oh my sorry that one made me giggle. I guess AIG never happend. Woot. I am glad to hear that. I guess that GM never closed down any plants or cancelled any contracts with car lots..or .. wow that is a load off my mind. Sorry..I've actually WORKED in big business. Had to lay people off, and believe me it wasn't the suits who were getting laid off. It was the janitors, and the production workers..and people who lived pay check to pay check. While Management spent a million on redecorating, bonuses for their fat hinnys, and such.
Ok, ok I will behave...
No wonder America is falling apart if you fire janitors and give bonuses to chairmans for the "job well done".
But is that an argument? That management of your company wastes money and should be in fact put into jail for that?
The IDEA behind restructuring is to:
-reduce administration
-reduce non-rental production
-improve rental production
-improve marketing
and a couple others.. definitely not to fire the production line and buy a new room decoration for the chairman
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TheDeath
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posted June 21, 2009 05:42 PM |
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I ask for objective, PRECISE definitions. Not surprisingly, anti-sharing people can't give them.
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You don't get it. For torrent sites, just imagine the amount of things that get downloaded all for free.
As long as they don't get downloaded from the distributor's site without permission, it means it's not "hacking" or anything.
For goodness sake this is even against free trade -- wake up in the 21st century and realize that with a bit of energy you can burn ANY data on any CD, and you SHOULD BE ALLOWED TO TRADE WHAT YOU OWN. In this case, it's data. Just data. Or put it on the web. Doesn't matter. And as long as you make no money off it, what's the problem? So I can't trade what I supposedly own?
Oh wait I can make copies, after all, that's what the damn computer can do. If you don't want to be able to do it, go back in the first half of the 20th century.
Now mind you, this isn't a case of getting a program, then making money off it -- that would indeed be bad. No, what you're really doing is using that thing in the 21st century called a computer to its potential.
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Giving your friend one copy is one thing, but thousands, tens of thousands or even a million people downloading a movie or downloading an album for free can have disatourous effects on record companies and artists. How can you not see that? Try reading more up on record businesses and all that and read more articles about this because you're sadly missing the point.
No you're just drawing wacky imprecise lines about a 19th or 20th business model that is kept alive by bigots who won't move into the 21st century business model. Obviously it wouldn't be surprising if those people would rather prefer to shut down the whole internet. Let's return to the '50s.
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4) It's not "sharing". Sharing is playing a CD for your friends at a party. Or maybe making a copy of some songs and giving it to a friend. Openly distributing thousands of songs is not sharing, it's blatant piracy. It's all a matter of degree.
Please define this "degree". Also please define the difference between "the internet" and "playing a CD for your friends at a party" in any reasonable objective sense of the word -- and not by being stuck in the '50s of course.
What will you do when cheap programmable nanobots become available?
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6) It seems that a small majority of people here and elsewhere on the net side with her. She was convicted TWICE by a jury of her peers. Keep in mind that those 24 people who convicted her know FAR more about the case than the little bit of information reported by the news.
Sorry but I don't keep in mind bias.
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It's a matter of how you share. sharing something of material like food is not stealing of course because the amount of food doesn't change.
wow, just wow 
so free food is a bad thing now? Or the ability to multiply food at will is bad? WOW!
I guess if I had superpowers to do just that I would be considered a criminal instead of a hero. 
Some people make me sick. Such things would be wonders and would solve starvation forever, and you find it bad  
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Alright antihackers; instead of calling it stealing we now call it illegal copying. Then the H4x0r5 can't complain about the use of words.
Which would be as ridiculous as saying antibreathing. If you have your damn computer to do that stuff without damaging anyone else's property (you are NOT depriving anyone else of anything), what is the problem? And it's not like you're going to sell it to make profit which would indeed be a bad thing.
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TheDeath
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posted June 21, 2009 05:52 PM |
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I never said you work for free. I believe that people who create value should be rewarded. I just said you don't get paid by your fans.
Instead, you get paid by companies who want to advertise to your fans. You get paid by people who sell T-shirts & stuff to your fans. You get paid by advertising firms who want you to appear in their commercials. Your fans never pay you, but you still make a fortune. It's actually a much better business model, if you look at the history of intellectual products.
That is exactly why Google is a 21st century business
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mvassilev
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posted June 21, 2009 05:56 PM |
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TheDeath
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posted June 21, 2009 06:01 PM |
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So you dislike the concept of intellectual property?
I dislike the concept, and I hate patents. It doesn't take a lot to see how many problems, if analyzed objectively, it has. (for instance, since it's just data, another "concept" and not something physical, then even if someone comes off with the same idea/algorithm independently...).
However with that said I am not saying anyone should give off for free and allow you to do whatever you want with it, including licensing it under "intellectual property". For instance, if you download music and then sell it (in other words, put 'your' intellectual property on it), you should be punished and I agree -- because you're avoiding intellectual property from the creator only to put your own on it, which I find disgusting also.
And "copyright" should be changed term to something else. Like "creatoright" (this is to avoid others to put their "intellectual property" on it)
Intellectual property isn't something quantifiable either. For instance you can convert the mp3s, apply some simple effects or whatever. No computer would objectively be able to say "this is the same as the original" because the data can be very different.
Only human bias could. And we should get rid of as much human bias as possible from the legal system anyway.
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angelito
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posted June 21, 2009 06:22 PM |
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They didn't punish this woman cause they'll punish anyone who downloads some songs. Of course not - half of the planet would die of starvation.
No, they punished her as an example - to spread fear. And I will not be intimidated by corporate suits who are too afraid of having to wait another week for their new swimming pool cause people downloaded an mp3 file.
The average pay here in Serbia is a shyteload lower than in the west; whereas the prices of original music, games and programs are the same (if not higher). Why don't companies lower the prices for poorer markets? Exactly - it's not their problem. By the same analogy, it's not my problem whether they lose 1 or 2% of their annual millions in order for people to listen to some music.
Never mind. It's their thing if they'll try and catch online sharers. It's our thing whether we'll be cautious enough not to get caught. As Motorhead sings, "if that's how it has to be, it's not so bad".
EDIT
Just realized Doomforge said the same thing. ^^ Nevermind.
So following your logic, it is completely ok to rob a gas station and steal tons of gas, because it is very expensive in serbia and people can't afford it, while the station owner becomes millionaire??
Very thougthfull post.....
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mvassilev
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posted June 21, 2009 06:22 PM |
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Look at it like this: you've spent countless hours developing something. Then you decide to sell something made from your research. Meanwhile, your neighbour copies your designs and sells the product too. He's going to be at an advantage because he didn't sink so much time/money into research. Unfair, right? And it'd discourage people from R&D in the first place.
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TheDeath
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posted June 21, 2009 06:30 PM |
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So following your logic, it is completely ok to rob a gas station and steal tons of gas
You deprive the owner of his gas. So yes, in this case, it is stealing.
But uploading gas on the web and then people downloading gas for their car?
I don't think you'll even touch the owner's gas, would you?
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Meanwhile, your neighbour copies your designs and sells the product too.
Am I talking to the walls?
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And it'd discourage people from R&D in the first place.
Better than forcing them against their nature, like what this does.
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