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| Thread: Teaching religon: Heritage of hostility? |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 · «PREV |
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Salamandre
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posted August 18, 2009 12:02 AM |
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One more thing which could be relevant:
Is religion teaching hostile? Let's look at it from a different point of view:
For a deeply convinced christian or muslim it is obvious that he can't share his life with a not believer. At least from what I saw and heard, there are zero chances that a person as Elodin or "Mohamed" will allow their children or themselves to marry an atheist. Please correct me Elodin if I am wrong. We are unhealthy for you.
Me, being atheist, I don't believe in such blabbermouth and I don't care who my child is marrying as long as there is mutual respect and love. And I use to think all atheist have the same approach.
The sad thing is that here, in France, we have a lot of muslims who whine everyday for imaginary exclusions. While they can't even admit one second a mixed marriage or living in a "not muslim" area. Every day, real facts are proving me that atheist is not a so bad thing. It gives freedom.
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Cepheus
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posted August 18, 2009 12:03 AM |
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I'm sorry, but God has manifested himself at many times throughout history and still manifests himself today so your statement is just wrong.
Where? When? What context?
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Elodin
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posted August 18, 2009 12:50 AM |
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If your god could manifest by himself we would notice exceptions, but everything seems to be formated.
Huh? God has manifested himself in my life. Sorry to break that to you, but some people are open to the move of God and some have closed their eyes and ears.
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Religion is bashing because (as I said previously) there is not a single proof that it deserve to anything and makes you a better/wiser person. I would have nothing against a revelation of God spirit to a child, but becoming from God side, not from parents.
Huh? I know of examples of an atheist being a bad person and then having an experience with God and becoming a better person. I know of no one "converting" to atheism and becoming a better person.
And how do you realate your statment to your claim that teaching a child a religion is bashing a child? And how do you defend teaching your cyhild the religion of atheism?
Spirituality is an important part of life. A parent who does not teach that aspect of life is engaging in child neglect.
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On the other side, there are enough statistics which show that a child who never learn to read will have difficulties to get a decent life. So, there is no bashing to force a child to get the tool which will allow him to have his own vision of the world, it is bashing to force him to think that religion is the tool because it is a prefabricated vision.
Studies show that religious people tend to live longer and to suffer from less mental disorders. So maybe teaching atheism should be illegal and teaching other religions encouraged.
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Is religion teaching hostile? Let's look at it from a different point of view:
One could argue that teaching the religion of atheism is hostile. Over the past 100 years atheist tyrants have murdered over 250 million people. Far more than all other religions combined in all of recorded history. And atheists are just getting started.
You are correct that Christians are not supposed to marry non-Christians. That is called being "unequally yoked" and would result in a lot of strife and confusion in the home.
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Where? When? What context?
Read the Bible dude. Or spend some time in a Pentecostal church where the move of God is welcome. I have seen and experienced a number of miracles. But an atheist is unlikely to ever experience a move of God sitting behind your computer screen ripping into religious peoplle.
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Salamandre
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posted August 18, 2009 12:58 AM |
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You are correct that Christians are not supposed to marry non-Christians. That is called being "unequally yoked" and would result in a lot of strife and confusion in the home.
For me this is a form of hostility and intolerance. Even more as we can't find any quote from the Bible which encourage it. I am atheist and proud to not be supposed to do or not do something. I can handle confusion and strife from a pragmatic point of view.
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Elodin
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posted August 18, 2009 02:18 AM |
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For me this is a form of hostility and intolerance. Even more as we can't find any quote from the Bible which encourage it.
Sorry, but you are wrong. The principle is the an unbelieving spouse will tend to lead you astray from God or at least interfere with things you should be doing.
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2Co 6:14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?
It is not intollerance to marry only someone you are compatible with. Believers and unbelievvers are not compatabile. Believers have a different world view and find different things to be important.
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"I am atheist and proud to not be supposed to do or not do something."
I'm sorry you feel no accountability for your actions or inactions and no responsibility to your fellow man. If you did there would be things you "are supposed to do." But atheism does teach that man is nothing but a sack of random chemicals reacting randomly so...
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Salamandre
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posted August 18, 2009 03:06 AM |
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Amazing how you turn everything is said in a different meaning. At least I get your personal thoughts about atheists and the chemical sack inside me is worried: why you dare to keep communicate with us?
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DagothGares
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posted August 18, 2009 03:36 AM |
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So he can feel better about himself.
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JollyJoker
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posted August 18, 2009 08:25 AM |
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How can religion today be a solace?
If there was ONE religion, worldwide, ok. But there isn't. There are a couple bigger ones and an infinity of smaller ones, splinter groups, sects and so on.
Now, if it's unimportant what religion you are following, then the truth of it - or the exact content: WHAT you believe - cannot be relevant in any way, and consequently religion as such can't be relevant.
If it's important, though, because for whatever reason you must follow the RIGHT belief, then how would you know what the RIGHT belief is?
The problem is, though, that the necessity to "follow the RIGHT belief" is all the more important the more important the role of religion is deemed. You might say those two are invariably entwined with each other.
Consequently, if it's important to follow the right belief, you have kind of a problem if you don't know whether your belief is the right one, but since there is no objective way to find out which is the right one (of any), it becomes important to belief that your religion is the right one.
See that? If a child is taught that religion is IMPORTANT!, than it follows that the actual belief is of importance as well: if it wasn't, then religion couldn't be important. So having the RIGHT belief is important. Logically, if you have the RIGHT belief, then everyone who believes differently has the wrong one. At this point it's back to the fact that this is IMPORTANT!. Of course you can "tolerate" those who have the "wrong" belief - but in fact they are misguided, poor sods, destined to a sad fate: it doesn't help tolerance, if you can see most of your fellow humans ending in eternal damnation.
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angelito
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posted August 18, 2009 09:55 AM |
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It is not intollerance to marry only someone you are compatible with. Believers and unbelievvers are not compatabile. Believers have a different world view and find different things to be important....
How wrong YOU are 
It just depends on how excessive you live your christianity. If you are an extremist, of course there is no way you can live with a non extremist. But if you are a moderate christian, who sees religion as PERSONAL thing in his life, there is no problem at all living with someone who is an atheist or an agnostic.
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Cepheus
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posted August 18, 2009 12:23 PM |
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Read the Bible dude. Or spend some time in a Pentecostal church where the move of God is welcome.
Well, I read a lot of things. Just last week I read Ivanhoe. I didn't instantly or gradually take it to heart on a basis of popular demand. But back to the original point of my post: when you bark that someone is "absolutely wrong", compelling counter-evidence on your side is expected, and - speaking with token neutrality mind you - there is currently plenty evidence to suggest God has not recently been manifesting, at least not in the same context as the Bible.
Now of course I don't know what context you imply with God has manifested, since there are too many to consider (hence my post: Clarify?), but without that compelling counter-evidence in the first place (don't vaguely hint about where to go looking, show me with sources/proof!) I mentioned, I'll stick with my dusty old alethic form of reasoning.
From a legal standpoint, at least. We're not in court here and now, but the OSM sometimes tends to smell like it
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Elodin
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posted August 18, 2009 03:39 PM |
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Of course you can "tolerate" those who have the "wrong" belief - but in fact they are misguided, poor sods, destined to a sad fate: it doesn't help tolerance, if you can see most of your fellow humans ending in eternal damnation.
The people that seem to not be able to tolerate other religions are:
1) radical Islamic terrorists
2)anti-theist atheists
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How wrong YOU are
It just depends on how excessive you live your christianity. If you are an extremist, of course there is no way you can live with a non extremist. But if you are a moderate christian, who sees religion as PERSONAL thing in his life, there is no problem at all living with someone who is an atheist or an agnostic.
No, the wrong and intollerant one is you. You don't tolerate religious viewpoints unless they match your own anti-theistic world-view.
It is quite obvious that when two people who are married have different world views there will be more conflicts in the home. With your view of religion as an evil and delusional belief and as being equal to drug addiction you could hardly have a peaceful home if you married someone who is actually religious. They would be a fool to marry you and be called a drug addict every day of their life. Your verbal abuse would cause strife for your wife and children and likely end up breaking up the marriage.
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I didn't instantly or gradually take it to heart on a basis of popular demand. But back to the original point of my post: when you bark that someone is "absolutely wrong", compelling counter-evidence on your side is expected, and - speaking with token neutrality mind you - there is currently plenty evidence to suggest God has not recently been manifesting, at least not in the same context as the Bible.
Your claim is that God does not manifest himself and you have offered no proof and cannot because there is no proof that God does not manifest himself. I am a Pentecostal and have seen God move many times. I have been healed of minor ailments and have known others, including family members, to be cured of things medical science can't cure.
So bring forth the "plenty of evidence" that suggests God is not manifesting himself.
Atheists always love to bark that everyone else is absolutely wrong but they can offer no proof, only their own mistaken opinion.
The fact is you have no proof that God does not exist or does not manifest himself because no such proof can exist.
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angelito
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posted August 18, 2009 03:57 PM |
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No, the wrong and intollerant one is you. You don't tolerate religious viewpoints unless they match your own anti-theistic world-view.
It is quite obvious that when two people who are married have different world views there will be more conflicts in the home. With your view of religion as an evil and delusional belief and as being equal to drug addiction you could hardly have a peaceful home if you married someone who is actually religious. They would be a fool to marry you and be called a drug addict every day of their life. Your verbal abuse would cause strife for your wife and children and likely end up breaking up the marriage.
First of all Elodin, I give you a last warning. If you do not stop provoking others (mostly those who do NOT share your view of the world!) by claiming WRONG quotes, I will penalize you! I have NEVER EVER said in any of my posts that religious people are DRUG ADDICTS. So be careful in the future!
Secondly, I am married to a christian african woman. God plays an important role in her life. BUT, in opposit to you, she doesn't oppress others with her belief. We both accept the viewpoint of each other, and we have no quarrel about religion at all. Because she is that open minded (unlike others), she doesn't qualify others on their beliefs, but on their character! And she married me allthough she knew I am an agnostic. And she goes to her church twice a week, and that is fine for me (why wouldn't it?). She would never force me to follow her.
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