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| Thread: Ubisoft's Griffin Fetish: Love it or Hate it? |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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Fauch
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted February 24, 2011 08:01 PM |
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imperial and battle griffins are abominations too, they are part griffin, part robot 
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Avirosb
Promising
Legendary Hero
No longer on vacation
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posted February 24, 2011 09:13 PM |
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Unicorns, too, are part robot
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WitchHunter
Adventuring Hero
Problem Drinker
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posted February 24, 2011 09:25 PM |
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Better Griffins than Glories or Spring Spirits.
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I'm taking my talents to South Beach. I'm leaving my brain in Cleveland though.
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MattII 
Legendary Hero
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posted February 24, 2011 09:58 PM |
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Edited by MattII at 21:58, 24 Feb 2011.
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Griffins are descended of dragons IMO, I mean they have the same body plans right, and birds came from dinosaurs, which are undeniably scaly. Also, it kind solves the 'dragon of light' issue.
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MrDragon
Supreme Hero
Eats people with Ketchup
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posted February 24, 2011 11:18 PM |
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Quote:
Griffins are descended of dragons IMO, I mean they have the same body plans right, and birds came from dinosaurs, which are undeniably scaly. Also, it kind solves the 'dragon of light' issue.
*A wild fantasy biology nerd appears!*
Whilst they are both hexapods, The Griffin and Dragon have significant physical differences in leg, wing and body structure to make it highly unlikely that they are taxonomically related that closely, particulairly as the Griffin itself is a chimeric creature.
Whilst the analog to Dinosaurs and Birds is understandable, at their core, the skull structures of modern birds and the dinosaurs they descended from had clear similarities in structure and design, Dragon Heads however are despite at first glance appearing closer to bird heads then those of Dromosaur families (where birds came from) actually judging by their portrayal in Heroes V, are significantly different in shape that the modern Ashan Griffin would probably have a more arrow shaped head as well, as it stands its skull is more of a bullet shape with a beak, the arrow shaped skull of the Dragons of Ashan is ofcourse an aerodynamic design and there is no evolutionary reason to lose this over the centuries, Griffin ancestors probably never had an arrow shaped head and most likely were significantly smaller, reducing the need for their head shape to reduce drag.
I could present many more reasons, but I think the skull shape will do for now.
*Wild Fantasy Biology nerd runs away*
....ok.... that was weird...
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted February 25, 2011 12:08 AM |
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Quote:
Whilst they are both hexapods, The Griffin and Dragon have significant physical differences in leg, wing and body structure to make it highly unlikely that they are taxonomically related that closely, particulairly as the Griffin itself is a chimeric creature.
Well from the screenshots I don't see much difference in leg structure, certainly less than between humans and, say, cats, and the body differences could well be due to size, leaving you with only wings. Also, who says that the griffin is chimeric, how do you know that they're covered in fur and not down-feathers?
Quote:
Whilst the analog to Dinosaurs and Birds is understandable, at their core, the skull structures of modern birds and the dinosaurs they descended from had clear similarities in structure and design, Dragon Heads however are despite at first glance appearing closer to bird heads then those of Dromosaur families (where birds came from) actually judging by their portrayal in Heroes V, are significantly different in shape that the modern Ashan Griffin would probably have a more arrow shaped head as well, as it stands its skull is more of a bullet shape with a beak, the arrow shaped skull of the Dragons of Ashan is ofcourse an aerodynamic design and there is no evolutionary reason to lose this over the centuries, Griffin ancestors probably never had an arrow shaped head and most likely were significantly smaller, reducing the need for their head shape to reduce drag.
Huh? How does skull shape mean that griffins aren't related to dragons?
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MrDragon
Supreme Hero
Eats people with Ketchup
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posted February 25, 2011 08:06 AM |
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Quote:
Well from the screenshots I don't see much difference in leg structure, certainly less than between humans and, say, cats, and the body differences could well be due to size, leaving you with only wings. Also, who says that the griffin is chimeric, how do you know that they're covered in fur and not down-feathers?
http://www.freakygaming.com/gallery/game_art/heroes_of_might_and_magic_5/sylvan_07_green_dragon.jpg
From artwork, I can, the legs are similar at a glance but different muscle arrangements, different feet structure.
Lets take another in depth look at a body part:
The Tail, the Griffins tail is in shape designed for only two things, balance and swatting away insects.
The Dragon's tail on the other hand is significantly longer and more powerful, it is probably used for airborne navigation, similar to the Retrices (or tail feathers) on a bird, yet bearing more resemblance to that of a fish.
At the same time the tail is armed with a barb, a potent weapon when attatched to a body part that muscular.
Take into acount these factors, the Ashan Griffin is not that much smaller then an Ashan Dragons, were they related in such a manner taxonomcially they would share at least some of these features as there is no evolutionary reason to get rid of them.
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Huh? How does skull shape mean that griffins aren't related to dragons?
It's very important, take a look at the skull of various ape species and those of humans, quite similar skulls aren't they? they are only different in proportions.
A dragon's skull and a griffins skull are not just proportioned differently, they aren't even similar shapes.
It is far more likely Dragons and Griffins are as closely related as Bats are related to Birds, physically they might look similar at a glance, but that is because of convergant evolution.
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted February 25, 2011 09:03 AM |
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I'd put it closer, say elephants and gazelles, although given how different the children of the Arkath are compared to those of Sylanna then who's to say Griffins aren't the children of Elrath, or possibly Sylath?
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MrDragon
Supreme Hero
Eats people with Ketchup
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posted February 25, 2011 09:16 AM |
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Edited by MrDragon at 09:17, 25 Feb 2011.
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I'd put it closer, say elephants and gazelles, although given how different the children of the Arkath are compared to those of Sylanna then who's to say Griffins aren't the children of Elrath, or possibly Sylath?
If we're going to fall back on fantasy, that's an easy one:
I quote from the official HoMM website. (http://might-and-magic.ubi.com/heroes-6/en-GB/game/creatures/haven/index.aspx#tcm2111290-Maintab-3)
"Griffins were created in the Mythic Age from the spontaneous magical fusion of lions and eagles. At that time the surface of Ashan was irrigated by dragon-veins, remnants of the Dragon Gods' wars, and animals that drank of these untamed rivers of dragon blood and magic were permanently altered by it. It is said that an act of compassion by an eagle who rescued a lion being carried away by the current of a dragon-vein gave rise to this formidable species."
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted February 25, 2011 10:54 AM |
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That was one big eagle. Of course, that story's as lame as the rest of the background, because anyone who knows anything about biology knows that birds and mammals aren't all that compatible.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted February 25, 2011 10:56 AM |
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Edited by Elvin at 10:56, 25 Feb 2011.
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Anyone who knows anything about magic knows that rl biology and magic effects are not compatible  Then there's the matter of the story being a myth..
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Map also hosted on Moddb
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mytheroes
Famous Hero
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posted February 25, 2011 11:07 AM |
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For starters, applying real world biology to mythological/fantasy creature is pointless/meaningless.
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted February 25, 2011 11:17 AM |
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Okay then, what's the griffin covered with, fur, feather, what?
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MrDragon
Supreme Hero
Eats people with Ketchup
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posted February 25, 2011 11:20 AM |
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For starters, applying real world biology to mythological/fantasy creature is pointless/meaningless.
I wouldn't say pointless, I quite enjoyed it actually, but I am a massive geek when it comes to that kind of thing.
Once that approach failed to convince though I pulled out the official lore on the matter.
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intelligence
Adventuring Hero
The Sacred Guardian
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posted February 25, 2011 11:30 AM |
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Okay then, what's the griffin covered with, fur, feather, what?
both i think
feathers from head to the middle of the body and fur from the middle to the tail
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted February 25, 2011 11:44 AM |
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Once that approach failed to convince though I pulled out the official lore on the matter.
I still say the lore's a pile of junk. The thread should have been named 'Ubisoft's Dragon Fetish'.
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intelligence
Adventuring Hero
The Sacred Guardian
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posted February 25, 2011 11:59 AM |
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Quote:
Quote:
Once that approach failed to convince though I pulled out the official lore on the matter.
I still say the lore's a pile of junk. The thread should have been named 'Ubisoft's Dragon Fetish'.
no dragons in h6 yet 
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Avirosb
Promising
Legendary Hero
No longer on vacation
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posted February 25, 2011 05:07 PM |
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Sure there are. They're "boss monsters".
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mytheroes
Famous Hero
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posted February 25, 2011 05:52 PM |
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Only one dragon boss has been revealed so far which is the Dragon Eel. Nobody said that the bosses will be dominated by dragons anyway, it's just speculation.
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted February 26, 2011 12:08 AM |
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Quote:
Quote:
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Once that approach failed to convince though I pulled out the official lore on the matter.
I still say the lore's a pile of junk. The thread should have been named 'Ubisoft's Dragon Fetish'.
no dragons in h6 yet
Except the founding dragons, the elemental dragons, the fact that our one remaining precious resource is called 'crystallised dragon blood'...Ubisoft is indeed in love with dragons.
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