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| Thread: Legendary Heroes and how bring them to Normal Maps |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 · NEXT» |
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admira
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted April 04, 2011 08:13 AM |
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Edited by admira at 08:37, 05 Apr 2011.
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Legendary Heroes and how bring them to Normal Maps
Prelude
How many people miss the Legendary Heroes? How many people eager to control these Legendary Heroes in normal map? I know I would love to see both.
It begin on my post about how I missed the Upgrade Unit Specialty like Gelu with Sharpshooter and Dracon with Enchanter. This Heroes IMHO provide unique experience and feel and I always eager to have them in the game. However, there is a limit that this Heroes only available in Campaign, is there possibility to bring them to normal Map? For this reason I create the thread. This is only for fun but you tell me if the reasons are make sense or not and as always, critics and suggestion are always a welcome.
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Legendary Heroes
In general term, Legendary Heroes are Heroes with powerful unique Specialty. Gelu and Dracon are the few examples of these and more memorable, at least for me since their ability "produce" new powerful unit/creature. Some of normal Heroes considered Legendary due to their Specialty that actually very effective and considered more powerful than normal Specialty ones or simply their interesting lore story. One of these category is Solmyr, he is a normal playable Hero but his lore story is interesting as also his specialty and consider by many as Legendary.
To make things simpler, let's make a deal that Legendary Heroes tend to have more powerful Unique Specialty compare to normal Heroes.
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Bring them to Normal Maps
Is it possible to bring them to normal maps? I would love to have Gelu as Heroes to fight my friends in normal Hot Seat map. Is it possible to have them as normal playable Heroes without disturbing the balance of MP map and without tearing down their already unique and favorable ability?
There are several conditions that IMHO will bring the chance of having these Heroes available Normal Map. It is actually a set of rules. So here we go:
1. Legendary Heroes are not available as normal choose-able Hero at the beginning of the map.
Reason: Pretty obvious I think, if this Heroes are available at the normal Heroes Choice on the beginning I don't think anyone will choose normal Heroes over Legendaries and not good for balance.
2. They only appear in Tavern as rare random encounter. Capital upgrade will increase the chance to make them appear.
Reason: while not initially available, they are recruit-able in rare random roll. Rare random encounter would be the best deal on how you can get them. It depends on luck of course.
3. In spite how many days passed, all new Legendary Heroes start at level 1.
Reason: More like a strategic decision, in which you choose to develop your already high level Normal Heroes or you switch to Legendary Heroes that in spite his low level has a fighting chance due to their unique powerful Specialty.
4. Statistically growth, Legendary Heroes gain 2 Stats growth rather than normal 1 stats growth every odd levels.
Reason: To compensate their low number of level, in which encourage player to develop them. In other words, give them reason that they are worth to build even when start at level 1.
5. In spite of their low level, Legendary Heroes cost you twice of normal Tavern Heroes recruit at level 1. Some will even cost you other resources aside gold.
Reason: The price of their power, pretty obvious actually.
OR/AND another Alternative.
On this alternative setup, Legendary Heroes are recruited via map object. I call it "Hall of Lords". They will randomly appear at Hall of Lords. Player can gain favor of the Legendary Hero. Legendary Heroes lore-wise can be anything and have so many different reasons, but it is obvious they have their own secret war and players can compete to gain favor of this Heroes in return of their services. For this alternative. Here is the rule:
1. Legendary Heroes will appear at fixed level 12.
2. They have their own army setup, player can modified them if they gained the Hero's favor and join the player's army permanently.
3. Player can gain favor by sending them resources and/or creature.
4. The sending is via caravan a.l.a Heroes V. Opponent player can attack the caravan thus terminating the supply sent to gain favor.
5. Creature offering will increase favor better toward player.
6. Creature offering of the same faction as the Legendary Hero's alignment will increase the favor even more.
7. Depend on the setting the offering due can be vary from 3 to 8 days.
8. Once the time is due, The Hero at Hall will decide which player he will join
9. To make things more interesting gained favor by players only increase the percentage of Legendary Heroes in joining the player.
10. There is also possibility he will left in due day without joining any faction.
11. Hall of Lords building object is not a flagged building, it is only a stand point in which you will send your offering through visually visible Caravan.
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Aesthetic
There is a reason for Town Screen vs Town Window outrage. Well while this point is less important game-play wise but it is an important aspect for the game as a whole so without further ado here is what I have in mind:
1. They have their own unique model in-game.
2. In "Hall of Lords" Alternative, you can see their presence visually presented inside the building object.
3. in Tavern recruit mode, whenever a Legendary Hero Appear at tavern, upon entering the castle with the considered tavern, player will get a message "There is a force disturbance"
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Legendary Heroes List Example
So here we are at list example of how will I design them. I personally like the Upgrade Specialty that upgrade unit to different unit so expect to find some of them. The lore might be difficult to accept but hey this is a fan-made  anything can happen here.
Ellena Nighthaven
Faction: Castle
Specialty: Griffin Knight
Description:
Create a Griffin Knight, a Powerful Lancer on the top of Griffin by sacrificing 1 Sentinel and 1 Griffin
At Elena's level 15, Griffin Knight under Ellena able to do Combination Dive. Similar to Griffin's battle dive in addition do 10% of battle dive damage to all adjacent stack surrounding primary target stack. (The animation is the griffin do battle dive while the rider do the similar dive with lance in shadowy effect and jump back to the griffin).
Lore:
Born an orphan in the harsh isolated land of Stone Talon Hill, Ellena showed a strong bound with the native Griffin of Stone Talon. Forming a mercenary group consisting Griffin Rider that soon recognized in the continent, the force grew stronger on each passing day. Rumor said that Ellena's unique troop favored by the Dragon Knights and they already had Ellena served under Dragon Knight order with her elite force. But most believe Ellena and her Griffin Rider were merely Myth at best.
Gelu
Faction: Sylvan
Specialty: Sharp Shooter
Description:
Create a Sharp Shooter by sacrificing a Marksman or a Hunter.
At Gelu's level 15 Sharp Shooter under Gelu able to do Reaction Shoot, whenever melee attacking approaching Sharp Shooter, Sharp Shooter have chance of 20% on each passing grid of the attacker went, to do reaction shoot that do 30% of Sharp Shooter normal damage.
Lore:
Most of Gelu's past is unknown, Gelu was found near-death, badly wounded in the forest near Irollan and brought back by Elven's scout happened to patrol the area. The only clue to his past is "Enroth" the word he keep mumbling during his coma. Many of his past memories were lost.
Considered to be prodigy in range attack formation, Gelu gained rank in no time amongst the higher captains of Irollan. Mysteriously vanished during the first blood moon eclipse, many assumed that Gelu had retained his memories and were pursuing his past life.
Zehir
Faction: Academy
Specialty: Master of Elemental
Description:
Zehir's Summon Elemental spell gained +1 spell power for every Zehir's Event level gained and +1 spell power to Summon Phoenix spell for every Zehir's Odd level gained. At level 10, Zehir Granted automatically unique Greater Elemental Summon spell as well as Elemental Synergy, unique ability that increase the power of his Damaging Spell the more elemental of the respective spell present in battle field.
Lore:
Zehir's Experiment on Elemental's Plane went wrong, he trapped in the Conflux's plane of the Elementals. Struggling to escape the planes, Zehir's ended up in a Time Paradox that threw him to 400 years before his time. Experiencing the surge on the Elemental's Plane, Zehir's Summoning and elemental damage became more potent.
Sandro
Faction: Necropolis
Batosai Masamune
Faction: Sanctuary
--Coming soon others and details pretty exhausted currently--
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DarkLord
Supreme Hero
Fear me..
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posted April 04, 2011 12:43 PM |
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SANDRO! the rest is not important!
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admira
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted April 04, 2011 05:09 PM |
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Quote:
SANDRO! the rest is not important!
I am still stuck to make his specialty unique and interesting, any suggestion?  his lore is pretty much easy to make since he was mentioned in the previous series as Markal's Mentor.
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Minnakht
Known Hero
Green eyed monster
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posted April 04, 2011 08:01 PM |
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Just remember that H6 is a prequel - set about four centuries before Zehir's born at all.
____________
Shameful Advertising
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted April 04, 2011 10:28 PM |
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Ellena Nighthaven? Gelu? Hells no, give us Roland Ironfist and Gem, they're the real legendary heroes. Oh, and either Yog or Crag Hack for Stronghold.
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DarkLord
Supreme Hero
Fear me..
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posted April 04, 2011 10:31 PM |
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Quote:
Ellena Nighthaven? Gelu? Hells no, give us Roland Ironfist and Gem, they're the real legendary heroes. Oh, and either Yog or Crag Hack for Stronghold.
I think Gelu is charismatic enough to be in the list 
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admira
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted April 04, 2011 10:50 PM |
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Edited by admira at 23:03, 04 Apr 2011.
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@MattII: Ellena is my creation I took only the "Nighthaven" part of the family name from Emilia Nighthaven of Heroes IV and I would love to add them (Gem and Roland Ironfist) but the case with Gem is she is a normal Hero with crappy first aid tent specialty that is not memorable and Roland is Heroes II Hero with no Specialty, but maybe a slight chance might work, a total rework of the Specialty. I'll look into it.
@Minnakht: I am working on his lore  hopefully it would be done today.
EDIT: See? Zehir now has his own Lore story.
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted April 04, 2011 11:29 PM |
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Gelu is in one game and the Chronicles, Gem is in the first 4 games, and Roland's in 2 games, plus he's the son of the H1's protagonist.
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gnomes2169
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Duke of the Glade
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posted April 04, 2011 11:37 PM |
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Gelu got fricking Armageddon's blade.
But I'd like to see Tarnum in here somewhere... (He is, literally, every single class).
Sandro's ability...? Heightened necromacy of course. +1-2% per level. 
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Yeah in the 18th century, two inventions suggested a method of measurement. One won and the other stayed in America.
-Ghost destroying Fred
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MrDragon
Supreme Hero
Eats people with Ketchup
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posted April 05, 2011 12:41 AM |
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Edited by MrDragon at 00:43, 05 Apr 2011.
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A nice idea but I strongly suggest changing hero specializations that give them access to unique units, even if it's just creative musings, keep things like balance in mind.
Example:
Balancing a creature that requires a Gryphon and a Sentinel as sacrefice for example would put it outside the Core-Elite-Champion creature tiers because it would have to be significantly stronger then a regular elite but it can't be anywhere even within a remote distance of champion strength because that would basically give that hero access to a truckload more champions.
It's almost impossible to balance that ability, not to mention that units exclusive to certain heroes is a bad idea from a design perspective both when it comes to art assets and the RNG factor that presumably still exists when hiring heroes.
I know it's not as exciting, but it's a lot more realistic to for example, give her Gryphons a big boost to magic defense/hero level, or increased damage on battle-dive/hero level.
TLDR version: Yes I love the idea, but I want it to be realistically balanced, that's just my opinion.
Edit: Also, looking at Zehir, his specialization looking at the spell-power numbers is BEYOND broken, +1 spell power every odd level for both is much more realistic.
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted April 05, 2011 05:29 AM |
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Edited by MattII at 10:28, 05 Apr 2011.
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Gem
Faction: Sylvan
Speciality: Life-Giver - Creatures under Gem's command gain a health bonus every other level, +1 for Core, +2 for Elite, and +3 for Champion.
Lore: ?
Roland Ironfist
Faction: Haven
Speciality: Duty-Bound - Creatures under Roland's command never have negative morale.
Lore: A knight who was wedded by the daughter of the Boar Duchy.
Yog
Faction: Stronghold
Specialty: Mage Damper - The effectiveness of enemy spells is reduced by 1 power for every other level the hero gains.
Lore: A djinn who didn't like the way the Orcs were being treated, and so decided to help their rebellion.
There, completely boring, but worthwhile.
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admira
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted April 05, 2011 08:45 AM |
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Edited by admira at 08:47, 05 Apr 2011.
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@MrD: as for Zehir's case I agree, I miscalculate several things, so basically the chart is now:
Level 1: +1 spell power to Summon Elemental; +0 spell power to Phoenix
Level 2: +1 spell power to Summon Elemental; +1 spell power to Phoenix
Level 3: +2 spell power to Summon Elemental; +1 spell power to Phoenix
etc until max
Level 30: +15 spell power to Summon Elemental; +15 spell power to Phoenix
but in defense of upgrade unit parts. There are several points to mention:
1. The Legendaries are not initially available, most probably not even in the first 3 weeks.
2. The Legendaries are all started at level 1. Even considering their unique powerful ability.
3. The upgrade cost can be set to higher degree to tactically give choice of upgrading or keep the old units not to mention the cut on resource type.
4. In example of Griffin Knight, actually I planned to make it only significantly stronger than Griffin and the Sentinel is "addition" cost to make this happened, that is my point of view though.
Keeps the arguments coming 
@gnomes2169: No Gelu lost Armageddon's Blade during the reckoning , Tarnum would be a challenge to make one, maybe a Heroes type boss with impossible to balance ability and I think I found an interesting ability for Sandro, I'll see to post it today.
@MattII: One of them is pretty neat actually but I'll modify it. After Sandro though
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted April 05, 2011 09:03 AM |
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Quote:
@gnomes2169: No Gelu lost Armageddon's Blade during the reckoning
Um, Gelu died during the reckoning, he was at ground-zero remember.
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admira
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted April 05, 2011 09:17 AM |
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Quote:
Quote:
@gnomes2169: No Gelu lost Armageddon's Blade during the reckoning
Um, Gelu died during the reckoning, he was at ground-zero remember.
Some story can be twisted
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted April 05, 2011 10:28 AM |
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That was Armageddons Blade he was using, he couldn't have survived it.
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intelligence
Adventuring Hero
The Sacred Guardian
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posted April 05, 2011 01:17 PM |
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Quote:
That was Armageddons Blade he was using, he couldn't have survived it.
unless Gelu is immune to armageddons
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No great genius has ever existed
without some touch of madness.
-Aristotle
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DarkLord
Supreme Hero
Fear me..
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posted April 05, 2011 11:52 PM |
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Edited by DarkLord at 00:03, 06 Apr 2011.
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they don't need introduction 
    
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gnomes2169
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Duke of the Glade
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posted April 05, 2011 11:59 PM |
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OMG! Sandro and Galu are the same person! Time loop paradox! Just look at that pasty white skin and the grim, I-hate-all-life expression on their faces! XD
Tarnum would probably do something like give a bonus to all core units. Maybe +1 attack and defense for every three-four levels?
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Yeah in the 18th century, two inventions suggested a method of measurement. One won and the other stayed in America.
-Ghost destroying Fred
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MattII
Legendary Hero
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posted April 06, 2011 12:25 AM |
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Edited by MattII at 00:26, 06 Apr 2011.
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Hey, don't forget the other regulars:
  
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gnomes2169
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Duke of the Glade
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posted April 06, 2011 04:26 AM |
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@ all who said things about Gelu and Armageddon's blade...
I meant that as in he was the bearer of the blade itself. That sets him just a bit higher than your run-of-the-mill hero.
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Yeah in the 18th century, two inventions suggested a method of measurement. One won and the other stayed in America.
-Ghost destroying Fred
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