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| Thread: Leaving H3 and going to train H4 |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 · «PREV |
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Romana
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Thx :D
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posted April 24, 2002 01:40 PM |
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well..i have to agree with rychenroller to a certain extent...but fact is ..we just haven't had enough time to figure out what could make this game great..maybe even better than H3
That's a challenge and I always love beeing challenged
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The darkest skies show the brightest stars
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ScareCrow
Tavern Dweller
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posted April 24, 2002 02:41 PM |
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Quote:
Hi
I played heroes4 for about 3 hrs yesterday (finally got it!!) and I was disappointed, even though i was advocating giving it a chance. A few things I dont like are the combat animations, it seems hard to tell what is goin on there. The graphics seem fine, not an improvement or a downslide and i dont mind so much my hero being in the fight.
The thing that really got me was the simplification of the heroes. In heroes3, most of the personality of the game came from what hero you managed to use as main, it was good to see them develop and watch their specialty increase in effectiveness especially heroes like Tazar, Crag etc. Now that is gone, if you choose a lord hero, they are all the same. You can develop their skills differently, but in the end, when you are playing multiplayer, you are using 1 hero for the final fight 90% of the time. I dunno if they tried to increase the roleplaying parts of the game, but to me, so far the seem to have depersonalized it. It might grow on me, I hope so, but first impressions arent great.
Just your friendly heroes4 newbie.
I disagree, I feel they definitely increased the heroes role-playing value. You get to decide based on what skills you choose what that characters special abilities will be. You can make him a Ranger,Battle Mage,Warlord etc...All have a special bonus. You will probably prefer this in the long run, because you will have a lot more say in the developement of your character. Before once you chose your character you were stuck with his special ability. Now you decide. Is'nt that what everyone was asking for? I like the graphics, especially the thunderbird.
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rychenroller
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted April 24, 2002 11:51 PM |
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I dunno yet
Before, it was the hero the struck fear into the hearts of your opponent. If I saw my opponent with Taz, I had to desperately look for an offense on a hero, or a good magic hero, although recanters would kill that. I didnt mind so much if Hack learned intelligence, he was still hack, and he would still squash you. This was a huge part of what appealed to me in the game, now it seems they have made it boring. Sure you can choose what path your hero takes, but you only need one of them. If you wanted to develop, hero "X" and he started as a lord, then any lord would do, there is no difference. That to me is called boredom.
Movement points on creatures are also a blunder in my book. This effectively destroys chaining. You cant move an army from hero to hero anymore, because now the creature runs out of movement points. More realistic? of course, but lets face it, we arent looking for reality here, we are looking for a strategy game. The biggest gamewinning strategy was the abilty to chain creatures to other heroes and hence, get more fights done. Kehnon seemed to sum it up by saying that they took a great strategy game and turned it into a fantasy wargame. Heroes was never about that and sadly, the developers have tried to make it that. They should have left a tried and true formula alone, but they messed with it and possibly killed it.
I'm gonna try and like this game, I have waited too long and played heroes3 too long (3.5 yrs and only getting bored now) to throw it away just yet. I'm just hoping there is something there to find.
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Myctteakyshd
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ScareCrow
Tavern Dweller
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posted April 25, 2002 02:39 AM |
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I understand what you are saying in regards to the combining you creature army with your heroe's army and I can understand how you would become attached to certain heroes based on their special abilities. Maybe we can have the best of both worlds, and they will give each individual heroe a special ability and let the player determine the path they will take after that! Maybe they can do that in an add-on. I personally wish we could choose which heroe we want at the start of the game...archer,mage,knight..etc instead of it being random....I just like to focus on the positive aspects of the game and I think it has a lot of them.
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Tc_Fear
Famous Hero
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posted April 25, 2002 09:34 AM |
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I agree with rych about chaining heroes.But i've played about 100 games with my friend and i think that chaining is not very nesessery.More taktical thing now is hero.its extreamly nesesery to take needable things.if you're mage to take grandmaster is dificult couse you must take combat.if necro grand necromancy ofcourse combat .for now its clear that without combat hero is dead in battle 
about creatures movement points if your creatures are slow on it .your life will be slow.Thats why i like necro.whey are fast and strong.thats why i dont like barbarians.
to scarecrow
now in patch we mostly expect TIMER.couse its nesesery for gaming online.
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'the only thing necessery for the triumph of evel is for good men to do nothing'
Edmund Burke
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Ursula
Adventuring Hero
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posted April 25, 2002 10:15 AM |
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About the chaining part.
Its not needed anymore.
You just by the creatures and walk them to youre hero
There is no need for a hero to get youre creature anywhere.
Only Thing is, you have to get caravan in a city to
quickly get all the creatures from the external dwellings and other towns.
Wait a few days until they all arrived
and then send them out to rendevous with youre hero
Easy as eating pancakes
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Follow me said the wise man, and walked behind.
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rychenroller
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted April 25, 2002 10:39 AM |
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And Ursula....there is the key word..."EASY"
I think after so many years of playing heroes of might and magic, we dont need the game to be easy, yes it is easy, but what is the point of it? In heroes 3, chaining was tough, it was a challenge. The top players in ToH were at the top, usually becasue of their ability to manipulate the map to their advantage and a large part of that was getting the best out of your heroes and army. I dont want it to be easy, I want it to be tough. Many players I've talked to think that 3do have "dumbed down" the game to make it more accessible to first time players, but lets face it, 90% of their market would have come from established heroes players yes?
The game didnt need to be easy, lesser players never chained because they couldnt, or couldnt be bothered with it since it was a lot of work. The manipulation of the game was the highlight of it, it was a strategy game, but now a lot of that strategy is lost, to me anyway.
Of course I dont speak for everyone, but its the way I see it
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Myctteakyshd
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Titan_888
Known Hero
Wind of Change
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posted April 25, 2002 11:03 AM |
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Ursula
Adventuring Hero
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posted April 25, 2002 11:13 AM |
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Youre right in some parts
Youre right about taking away an edge you had in H3
but there are new edges to be found
The strategic question is always
"where do i need my army over a couple a days"
Indeed chaining was a good strategic thing
you had to figure stuff out just so you had your army
at the right time fast.
Once you had town portal and earth magic(highest level) that fun was also gone.
You just portal all over the map and voila you are ready go kick some but anywhere.
The way its now you still have the same strategic question.
BUT.
We have Fog Of War now so the moment you need youre army somewhere its probably to late to react anyway.
Even with caravan and all.
Losing a town can be a very easy this way. (because you used the caravan to gather all you creatuers in a central town)
Or youre simply to late when someone comes walking out the fog. (still hate that about red alert and a invis APC packed with engineers quote "WTF where did that dude come from")
So the only thing they did was make the logistics part a bit easyer and less time consuming.
You dont have to waste to much time chaining and working on logistics, and having 8 heroes of whom only 2 a 3 are worth fighting with.
I have to admit i like the inferno town from H3 very much because of the gate feature it has.
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Follow me said the wise man, and walked behind.
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Titan_888
Known Hero
Wind of Change
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posted April 25, 2002 12:07 PM |
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lol i like the map trainer they draw on the backside of the creature-card that came along with pack.
Day 1: Take wood/ore min
Day 2: take gem mine
Day 3: take sulfur mine
Day 4: take artifact..
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Month 5 week 4 day 7: Fight opponent..
ZZzzZZ
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Tc_Fear
Famous Hero
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posted April 25, 2002 12:11 PM |
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:)
lol i like the map trainer they draw on the backside of the creature-card that came along with pack.
Day 1: Take wood/ore min
Day 2: take gem mine
Day 3: take sulfur mine
Day 4: take artifact..
...
...
...
Month 5 week 4 day 7: Fight opponent..
ZZzzZZ
LoL Titan (but with pack?)
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'the only thing necessery for the triumph of evel is for good men to do nothing'
Edmund Burke
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Titan_888
Known Hero
Wind of Change
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posted April 25, 2002 12:20 PM |
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yeah.. well what i mean is "box"
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rychenroller
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted April 25, 2002 12:54 PM |
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lol titan..
I'm looking forward to those 11 hour multiplayer games
Bring on heroes5 hehe
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Myctteakyshd
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Jinxer
Legendary Hero
*****
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posted April 25, 2002 04:58 PM |
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************** Chaining *****************
Well I have to admit I was glad to see that they addressed the chaining issue. In Heroes 3 chaining became the main strategy and in my opinion it simplified the deepness of the game. I will explain:
Heroes3 has so much depth to it yet as Rychen calls the so called TOP players have foudn a way to simplify a win and the game. They do 8 Hero chaining and make sure the game ends late week 2 or early week 3. Basically the faster they can end the game the better there odds to remain superior. Well sure that is what makes them stand out from others but there is more to the game than trying to end it as fast as possible.
To be honest though I think it is the map designs that are more to blame. The maps are designed for fast attacks and quick games in mind so just reinforces the massive fast chaining strategy.
I will admit I use the chaining feature in H3 also, but mainly just to take off slower troops or to bring army out to main. Rarely do I take the time to try and set up some elaberate 8 hero chain so that I can clear 1/2 the map in 3 days. I guess that is why I am liking Random XL more lately. You dont know where your opponent is or where the mines are or where any of the goodies are so it is alot harder to count Hexes and set your heroes in exactly the same spots as you did on that map the previous 20 games. So it limits the chaining to some degree.
In heroes4 they have limited it a great deal, but the only thing they limited was the Main Hero doing 8 battles in 1 turn. I think though there could have been a compromise, for example I like the creature movement limit, but for example the movement should last enough to get 1 or 2 chains out of it. So instead of doing 8 battles per turn maybe do 2-3. Anyways i am ramblin. I prolly wont be playing Heroes 4 Much anyways unless there patch solves the SYSTEM demand issue. My game runs so slow and my mouse is sooo sluggish it jerks from one side to another takes me 30 secs to get my mouse to stop on the target I want. LOL So if they include a TIMER I will still need unlimited time just to play my turn properly.
Jinxer
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haile73
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted April 25, 2002 09:34 PM |
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Quote:
Day 1: Take wood/ore min
Day 2: take gem mine
Day 3: take sulfur mine
Day 4: take artifact..
...
...
...
Month 5 week 4 day 7: Fight opponent..
ZZzzZZ
Yeah, let's rename ToH to Tournament of Hours
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Patrel
Adventuring Hero
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posted April 25, 2002 09:55 PM |
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Quote:
lol i like the map trainer they draw on the backside of the creature-card that came along with pack.
Day 1: Take wood/ore min
Day 2: take gem mine
Day 3: take sulfur mine
Day 4: take artifact..
...
...
...
Month 5 week 4 day 7: Fight opponent..
ZZzzZZ
LoL Titan (but with pack?)
lol, too true
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It's beer-o-clock, where the hell's my riot?! - John Crichton
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Tc_Fear
Famous Hero
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posted April 26, 2002 12:56 PM |
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To jinxer
if you trying to move several minutes then
you have a comp ending his life.
And one more thing about movement/population. 1 rule was disabled- FIRSTDAYRUSH and i like it
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'the only thing necessery for the triumph of evel is for good men to do nothing'
Edmund Burke
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DazeFX
Tavern Dweller
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posted April 27, 2002 01:36 PM |
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hehe
I liked to play red without this rule(1dayrush) .
But now ye its imposible to catch on population
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DazeFX
Tavern Dweller
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posted April 27, 2002 02:10 PM |
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and 1 more thing
who knows how will be will be with H/R (hit and run)?
?
?
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Tc_Fear
Famous Hero
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posted April 29, 2002 08:58 AM |
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RULES
I've never liked H/R- 3/2,4/2 and so on
I donno how will be. But I think this rule never changes
In heroes3 there was a lot of heroes witch never plays(such as 3/4 Heores,Logists)And now
Ofcourse I've always wanted to play for TOH without any rules,but it is practicaly imposible to find player
IT just seems like 3DO cleared almost all rules
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'the only thing necessery for the triumph of evel is for good men to do nothing'
Edmund Burke
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