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| Thread: Necessary modifications for HoMM3 multiplayer games |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 · NEXT» |
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dimis
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Digitally signed by FoG
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posted November 25, 2013 02:44 PM |
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Necessary modifications for HoMM3 multiplayer games
Hi guys,
Long time no seen. I guess I am looking for some feedback because it has been so long since the last time I played heroes, that I have forgotten even the basics.
So, the idea is that I am aiming to play a couple of multiplayer games (in a LAN) and I would like to double-check some basic ingredients that need to be set up for having a standard multiplayer game.
What I have in mind is 2 vs 2 battles (4 humans and that's it).
1. Cranim.txt
I am not sure where one can download this file. Actually, I can see a file under the Data folder, but seriously, it has been so long since the last time I played that I have no clue whether this is the "fast" version or it is some default file that needs to be replaced in order to have fast animation of the creatures in the battlefield. A link here would be appreciated. (I looked in SAG's website, but I could not find a link under the Downloads section.)
2. Random Generators for 2vs2
I will have a look under SAG's Download section again, but it is certainly missing one or two templates that I remember I used to play in the past.
(a) The first one is angelito's fiesta. The latest version that I could find in my emails is 1.11. Is this the latest one angelito? If not, I would appreciate an email with the latest version. 
(b) The other obvious template for 2 vs 2 humans is jebus. Fine, I can get that from SAG.
(c) The third template is the variation of jebus that angelito had made in the past for some requirements by maretti. I think the bottom line there was that jebus in this variation was poorer compared to the original one.
(d) The other variation that I remember that had been generated by angelito per request of maretti at the same time in the past was on truerandom. Was that a modification to allow 4 players?
In any case, for (c) and (d) I have some versions from 2008. Are these the latest ones? Most likely the answer is yes.
(e) Does anyone have other recommendations for 2 vs 2 generators?
3. Other modifications
What other modifications are needed in the Complete version so that one can have a decent game?
For example, was there a modification that allowed players to quickly exchange army and artifacts when they met? Do I remember something wrong here? If I am not wrong on that one, how can I enable this mod?
What about other standard modifications that are suggested so that one can have an enjoyable game? Honestly, assume that I am a complete noob.
4. Standard Online Rules
Are the "standard" online rules somewhere written down? I think I need a refresh there.
Hope you are all doing well.
Best,
dimis
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The empty set
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frostymuaddib
Promising
Supreme Hero
育碧是白痴
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posted November 25, 2013 03:08 PM |
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Well, I'm noob regarding HoMM multiplayer rules and settings, but I believe that you will need HD mod. It has various settings that you can change, and some may be related to the things that you are looking for.
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hippox89
Famous Hero
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posted November 25, 2013 03:12 PM |
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Edited by hippox89 at 15:43, 25 Nov 2013.
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2vs2 in LAN? That's something I plan to do myself when it can be arranged. I thought a lot about it.
The most ''perfect'' setup that I could think up is,
1. To have your allies PC screen next to you, so that you can see his battles. But the other team should e.g. be in another room next to you. That way you still can take a break and talk, eat snakes together, but you can still plot with your panther privately.
2. Team 1 has to be colors 1, 3. Team 2 has to be 2,4. This mean simply that a 'end turn' will always switch team (you have to wait less time).
3. 1-2 min turns.
Don't you know about 'HiRez mod'? It adds a lot of pre-made templates and much other. E.g. fixes, widescreen.
HiRez mod
Cranim
That's a ton of other stuff to consider in MP. Much of it is personal. Balance tweaks, gentleman rules. How complicated do you want it to be for you, though? Maybe no reason to complicate things?
Some of my own rules,
1. Townportal only allowed in towns. I use a custom townportal icon with a 'remember' written over it as a safety device. haha.
2. No stealing artis, treasures from guards with dimension gate, boats.
3. Misplaced border guards must not be circumvented.
4. Dimension gate cost 75, 60, 60, 60. 3 times limit per turn.
5. I ban some spells/arties. View earth, view air. No orb of inhibition and more.
I could go on and on.
But necessary only:
HiRez mod, cranim, ARRAYTXT (creature range)
Consider:
XXL mod, I guess, but again, no need to complicate things.
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dimis
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Digitally signed by FoG
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posted November 25, 2013 05:23 PM |
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Edited by dimis at 18:26, 25 Nov 2013.
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Thank you guys. Looks like the HD mod is now ready. I am impressed.
I would love to hear angelito's or Xarfax's input on this as well. Of course maretti, Salamandre, SAG, or any other old-timer, is more than welcome to comment. It's been ages.
hippox89 said:
3. 1-2 min turns.
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The empty set
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted November 25, 2013 08:49 PM |
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I always was a no rule fan, any rule beside "no diplo" is taking something thrilling away from the game. As for templates, you can take any then modify to your likes, depends what your gamers want to see, lots of utopias, cons, or scrolls level 1 + naked pixies. All can be done in treasure area.
Have fun.
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dimis
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Digitally signed by FoG
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posted November 25, 2013 09:08 PM |
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Thank you Salamandre. I do not like many rules either, but I think there are some obvious ones that you also imply with the "no rules" policy. For example, what hippox mentioned above of not bypassing misplaced guards and march say into the treasure area in the center of Jebus, or steal a huge artifact without giving the fight because the guards are misplaced, or even both!
So, I want to recall these things and go through them once with the rest of the people before we start the game and make sure that all of us have the same common sense while playing the game. I am mentioning this, because I know that there is a guy who will try to bend the rules and the justification in the end will be something along the lines "huh? we did not ban this sort of thing!".
My point is that we have the chance to get together and play a game so infrequently, that it would be a disappointment if some sort of common sense is not followed. After all we are going to play a game or two and then perhaps the next time all four of us are going to meet and play again will be in another 12 months time or so. Plus we did not meet for the last 2-3 years because one of the people had a baby and this made it impossible to arrange a game.
Anyway, that is really my point for asking about the rules.
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The empty set
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted November 25, 2013 09:52 PM |
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Well, just a suggestion, but have you thought to fixed maps?
ToH fixed maps
You have some gems there about 2 vs 2, the ultimate being Seven Lakes, all tested and creative. Templates can be fun, but also can be screwed thus requiring this rule or that.
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Era II mods and utilities
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Hippox89
Famous Hero
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posted November 25, 2013 10:52 PM |
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Edited by Hippox89 at 23:00, 25 Nov 2013.
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Good suggestion, and you could even download one without even looking at the picture of it. That's something I'd do. I like not knowing. You know it'd be a 2vs2, but little else.
One thing to note, if all cheats then it's fair, right? That'd simplify things, so you don't need to worry to much about rules and cheating.
BTW: Since you guys only see each other so rarely, maybe being in the same room together is more important than private plotting. Remember fake info can be given, too. Mind games to stress and such. You can actually chat to a specific person via in-game chat, too.
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dimis
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Digitally signed by FoG
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posted November 26, 2013 01:13 AM |
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Salamandre, you are right, I will definitely keep that in mind, but this is up to discussion with the rest of the people who will participate. Thanks for the ToH pointer. I was not expecting to see that page being still there! And I will definitely try to play the Seven Lakes! 
I really miss Heroes now! Thanks again!
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The empty set
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angelito
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
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posted November 26, 2013 02:30 PM |
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Edited by angelito at 14:31, 26 Nov 2013.
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Hi dimis
Nice to read from you again....has been a long time though...
To answer some of your questions, I have to take a deeper look into my pc and look for those templates, because I haven't played one of those templates for years. I will tell ya their versions when I have found them.
I only play WOG with my own settings nowadays and with a template I created for a HC user named Coldshadow.
He wanted a map with big treasuries, very strong monsters (even Azure dragons), possible 1 singleplayer vs 7 comp, or 2 players vs 6 comps, allied or not and 2 starting towns for each.
So I made this template and named it "Coldshadow's Fantasy", and played it myself
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Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.
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Hippox89
Famous Hero
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posted November 26, 2013 03:48 PM |
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Edited by Hippox89 at 15:49, 26 Nov 2013.
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@Angelito
Ah, my last game played was on your 'Coldshadow's Fantasy' template on a XXL, island map. I only made it XXL. I quite enjoyed the layout, big spread on the island, generally at least - smaller underground, because of many but also smaller zones, I think. And it has a junction, too.
Maybe not-way-the-way-it-was-meant-to-be-played but great for such a island setup. The only thing was that my opponent had to fight a level 7 + a level 6 stack to get out of his underground because of it being an island map. haha. But that can be changed, of course.
Anyhow, great, unique template.
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dimis
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Digitally signed by FoG
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posted November 26, 2013 09:17 PM |
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Edited by dimis at 21:19, 26 Nov 2013.
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Hey angelito,
I did a little bit of my homework, so, you do not have to search for the templates. The latest version of Fiesta should be 1.11 that I also have. I am the last one who made a review of the template in the appropriate thread, so I guess that's that.
Also I am pretty sure I have the latest versions of the modifications that you had made for maretti. So, do not search further for these three.
As of Coldshadow, I remember him. I always liked him, but for some reason he was not posting very frequently in the library back when I was regular. I will email you and request the new template that you made for him. Whenever it will be convenient for you, you can send it to me and I will give it a try.
I know it's been a long time. The point is that arguing with youngsters can become tiresome after some point. In the library the things were always much easier. It was more or less like maths. In other parts of the forum, not really; at some point it became more of a waste of tremendous energy. Anyway, I hope you and your family are doing well.
This forum is very fortunate to still have you around.
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The empty set
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maretti
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted November 28, 2013 03:35 AM |
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Edited by maretti at 03:38, 28 Nov 2013.
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Hi Dimis. Very nice to hear from you again. Was allways a pleasure. To return the favor i will give you what I find the best setup for your game.
Get the latest version of H3 HD (3.65). Its so great. Naga banks now give gems but other than that the game is still the same. Its just much more convenient to play. Also the new chess timer is very nice if needed. In the template list you will actually find Poor Jebus among many other templates. If you decide to play Poor jebus (which is a good choice imo) it should be on Xl no under, 130%. Regular jebus is good too.
Town choosing (if needed): Flip a coin. The winning team decides if they want red and tan colors or blue and green. Now each player eliminates a town, green starts, red finishes. From the remaining 5 towns green picks town first, then tan etc.
Rules: Rules are needed to get the best experience, but the more options there are on a map the less rules are needed. Here are the rules I would use if I had something to say:
- Fight misplaced guards (check wcl for details if needed)
- No DD/fly/wings
- In order to use a level 4 or 5 scroll you have to build mage guild level 4 or 5
- No necro amplifier (means no vamp lords either)
- No lvl 1 and 7 upgrade in conflux towns
- No joiners (diplo)
- No Cartographer
- No Hillfort
- No red rush (no attacking opponents main force with new troops day 1 of any week if he didnt have the turn yet)
- no Hit & Run (Fleeing or surrendering from combat is not allowed for the first 3 rounds if you have done more damage to your opponent than he has done to you (HP). You are not allowed to sacrifice a scout in order to reduce opponents main army)
- No reducing guards with upgrades more than once
- If battle ends in a draw then the player who is avoiding contact has to flee or surrender. If shackles are present he has to make contact.
- Restarts: no restarts unless a player is badly blocked or is in a hopeless situation early on. Use common sense.
To avoid a player being more or less eliminated from the game to make his ally stronger, you may want to forbid exchanging arts and army between allies.
Have fun.
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Crag rules, Orrin and Ivor suck
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dimis
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Digitally signed by FoG
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posted November 28, 2013 07:38 PM |
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Edited by dimis at 19:41, 28 Nov 2013.
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Hey maretti,
I was even hesitating mentioning your name a little bit further above in my post. From what I could see in the library only angelito and Xarfax are still posting but they have to deal with tons of newcomers.
In any case, it is very nice that you are still visiting the forum and I could get your input!
So, I am definitely moving to H3 HD. Finally naga banks work the way they should, so that's another immediate plus right there! From what I understand the H3 HD comes with templates as well, so, that's another bonus, especially if it contains the poor jebus. From what I am collecting from the emails that we are exchanging these days poor jebus will most likely be the choice for the template that we are going to use. I think we are aiming for XL no under at 130% regardless of the template.
Also, thanks for writing down these rules. It's good to have them as a reference. I will also try and watch some of the videos that you had created in the past and try to get partially in shape. I am such a noob now.
Hope you and your family are doing great! I honestly did not expect to hear from you in this thread. It was a very pleasant surprise!
Edit
Oh, one more thing. Do people use time limit per turn these days online? Or is the chess timer that you mention above just a timer that is always there on the screen on higher definitions and hence it does not interfere with the map?
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The empty set
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maretti
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted November 29, 2013 12:11 AM |
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Edited by maretti at 00:11, 29 Nov 2013.
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Nowadays I am often streaming my games live on http://www.twitch.tv/maretti0
There are many recorded games there aswell you can check out.
The chess timer works like this: You set a start time, a time for each round, and a max time for each battle. 18 8 2 for example. If you spend more than 8 min on your turn you eat of the 18 min. If you use less than 8 min you save that time for later. This motivates you to play fast so that you have more time for later. If you spend more than 2 min on each battle you will use time. When you spend less than 2 min you wont add time to the overall timer ofcourse. And you can see how much time the opponents have left aswell.
There is also replayeble quick combat that dosent spend mana. If you dont like the result you can play the battle yourself. So much time can be saved here aswell.
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Crag rules, Orrin and Ivor suck
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revolut1oN
Famous Hero
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posted November 29, 2013 12:29 AM |
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How do you use no mana quick combat in Heroes HD? I've tried middle mouse button and then pressing crossed swords icon, but nothing changed.
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dimis
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Digitally signed by FoG
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posted November 29, 2013 12:42 AM |
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Thank you for the link maretti. You now have one more follower.
Also, thanks for the explanation with the timer. Sounds interesting!
I am on my way to watch one of the earlier battles that you have broadcasted and are available online!! You made my day!! 
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The empty set
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dimis
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Digitally signed by FoG
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posted December 13, 2013 01:25 AM |
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Edited by dimis at 02:20, 13 Dec 2013.
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Ok, now I have a question and I do not want to spam the HD+ thread, so instead I am going to ask here.
I created a couple of games picking Dungeon, and I was placed on both of them on the underworld! Tested with Coldshadow's Fantasy and Jebus Cross. So, is it finally true that Dungeon starts natively in these generators? Does this hold for every generator that is available from the list of the HD-mod?
Edit: Nah, never mind. I just have not played for a long time and I only remember half of the truth. But with Coldshadow's Fantasy there might actually be a potential for starting on underworld and having an enjoyable game. At least from a first glance on what is being generated.
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The empty set
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alfred
Tavern Dweller
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posted December 19, 2013 05:30 PM |
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dimis said:
(e) Does anyone have other recommendations for 2 vs 2 generators?
Try one of my maps - Vanadia's Ruler 2 vs. 2!
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www.thehannibalproject.net
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dimis
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Digitally signed by FoG
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posted December 22, 2013 12:12 PM |
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Thank you Alfred!
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The empty set
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