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| Thread: On a mission to save the world? Should we or not? |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted March 11, 2016 07:28 PM |
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Raenus
Famous Hero
Grouchy curmudgeon
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posted March 11, 2016 07:29 PM |
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Edited by Raenus at 19:29, 11 Mar 2016.
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I have been trying to figure out how to exactly respond to this without becoming a laughingstock, and I failed. So please keep in mind everything I am about to say is a personal opinion, and that I may not be as uneducated as you will doubtlessly think.
The idea you put forward is so damn arrogant it hurts.
To think that:
1. 1% of the world is so much smarter than the rest that they need to act as shepherds for the poor plebians.
2. You are part of the said 1% because you are well read on what is posted on the internet.
3. Just because people enjoy their lives and don't actively resist whatever you want them to that they are going to destroy the world.
Your thinking in my opinion is exactly what leads to characters like Hitler. People who think they need to make the world a better place inevitably end up driving it into the ground.
People like our dear Fred and Stevie are akin to peasants screaming "REPENT, REPENT". They delight in viewing every single thing wrong with the world and closing their eyes to everything right with it.
Every generation thinks that the world is being destroyed. There have been doomsayers for as long as there have been humans. Unfortunately doomsayers have become quite popular with the advent of the internet. This is exacerbated by the fact that news with a negative slant is much more popular than positive news.
Okay, now go ahead and laugh yourselves silly or start feverishly typing to point out how wrong, how clueless, and how stupid I am just because I don't think that the sky is falling and I believe there are people smarter than myself out there. I shall not follow this up because their is no way I could change your minds and vice versa. I shall be enjoying time with my family and being incredibly thankful that I am fortunate enough to live in such an amazing time period.
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Creature Quest: HaltWhoGoesThere
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mvassilev
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted March 11, 2016 07:31 PM |
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See here and here.
Chart
Strictly speaking, crime in the US isn't the lowest it's ever been, but it's still low by historical standards, has been improving, and is probably lower than when you were born or growing up.
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Eccentric Opinion
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fred79
Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
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posted March 11, 2016 07:34 PM |
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Raenus said:
People like our dear Fred and Stevie are akin to peasants screaming "REPENT, REPENT". They delight in viewing every single thing wrong with the world and closing their eyes to everything right with it.
yeah, because it's so delightful. that makes lots of sense, especially since i'm FOR people coming together and righting the wrongs in the world. your post flabbergasts me. it's like you never read anything i ever posted.
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Raenus
Famous Hero
Grouchy curmudgeon
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posted March 11, 2016 07:36 PM |
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fred79 said:
yeah, because it's so delightful. that makes lots of sense, especially since i'm FOR people coming together and righting the wrongs in the world. your post flabbergasts me. it's like you never read anything i ever posted.
I was only referring to medieval doomsayers not saying you are exactly the same.
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Creature Quest: HaltWhoGoesThere
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fred79
Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
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posted March 11, 2016 07:37 PM |
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Edited by fred79 at 19:52, 11 Mar 2016.
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@ mvass: a graphic does not a reality make. even if it wasn't on the news, i would know what's been going down. gunshots don't lie. bodies don't lie.
edit: i should note that i didn't bother reading the graphic before posting this. the post after this is where i did. 
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted March 11, 2016 07:41 PM |
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Raenus said:
People like our dear Fred and Stevie are akin to peasants screaming "REPENT, REPENT". They delight in viewing every single thing wrong with the world and closing their eyes to everything right with it.
Nah, that's plain wrong. I think we live times when we can enjoy a lot of things which previous generations couldn't even dream of, but we're also living times with real issues, more prevalent than ever before.
Had no idea you viewed me that way.
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Guide to a Great Heroes Game
The Young Traveler
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fred79
Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
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posted March 11, 2016 07:45 PM |
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lol @ mvass attempting to compare the 1700's to the present. WHAT THE snow. that's like comparing a bunch of headhunters, to people in a first-world country. seriously, man? that's so stupid, i can't begin to wrap my head around it.
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Raenus
Famous Hero
Grouchy curmudgeon
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posted March 11, 2016 07:47 PM |
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Edited by Raenus at 19:49, 11 Mar 2016.
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Stevie said:
Nah, that's plain wrong. I think we live times when we can enjoy a lot of things which previous generations couldn't even dream of, but we're also living times with real issues, more prevalent than ever before.
Had no idea you viewed me that way.
Only because of this, "As such, I see salvation as something entirely out of our grasp. We shouldn't even bother thinking beyond the personal level, and by that I mean Christ."
And this, "Humanity is doomed alright."
And I meant NO OFFENSE! From what I can tell both of you are awesome people that I would love to meet.
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Creature Quest: HaltWhoGoesThere
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fred79
Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
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posted March 11, 2016 07:50 PM |
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lol, but we're "doomcrying peasants"... 
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Raenus
Famous Hero
Grouchy curmudgeon
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posted March 11, 2016 07:53 PM |
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Edited by Raenus at 19:59, 11 Mar 2016.
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fred79 said:
lol, but we're "doomcrying peasants"...
Awesome doomcrying peasants.
I really meant no offense and I regret my wording. I am sorry that I got personal. Please accept my sincere apologies.
@Stevie below: No one was supposed to see that. Hooded men easily cloud my judgement.
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Creature Quest: HaltWhoGoesThere
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted March 11, 2016 07:56 PM |
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Edited by Stevie at 19:57, 11 Mar 2016.
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fred79
Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
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posted March 11, 2016 08:06 PM |
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Edited by fred79 at 20:08, 11 Mar 2016.
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@ raenus: that's fine, but you still assume that we WANT the worst to happen. either one of us would prefer the best for the planet, and the critters inhabiting it. so your idea that we "delight" in apparently snowting all over the glorious realities that is our unmarred planet and it's beautiful and ever-improving human race was just a misstep? i think maybe people get their "reality" from facebook, where everyone is doing a good thing, or at least, APPEARING to do so, for the likes.
reality is more grim. i've watched the places i've lived and visited, degrade to a point to where i wonder how much longer it can last. for instance: when i was a kid, there was a creek i played in when i visited my relatives up north. that creek is now so polluted that no fish swim in it, no crayfish live in it, and it's barren of mussels. and if YOU swim in it, you'll get sick. it used to be clear, and darkened into darker greens the further you went into it. now, it's forever a muddy brown, and it looks like wonka's chocolate river. everything in it is covered in brown moss, and it smells like raw sewage. the ENTIRE THING. and this is just ONE example. that's not speaking for the criminality that has been increasing, or the...*
you know what? snow it. i'm just pissing in the wind here. there's no point in discussing reality with people, whenever they think that graphics, charts, and reports from sources from the internet or wherever(like mvass's fbi link... LOL. fbi, cia, etc... those're all GREAT sources of information. ever hear the saying "consider the source", mvass?  these people WANT YOU IN THE DARK ABOUT REALITY, ffs) are actual representations of reality, i just have to stand back and wonder, just how completely out of the loop people push themselves...
more and more, i realize just how much americans prefer to live in a fairytale world. the evidence of THAT is everywhere.
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Raenus
Famous Hero
Grouchy curmudgeon
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posted March 11, 2016 08:20 PM |
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fred79 said:
@ raenus: that's fine, but you still assume that we WANT the worst to happen.
Not want, no one in their right mind wants it. But it does appear that you delight in it. You in particular take every opportunity you can to bring up how doomed we are.
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Creature Quest: HaltWhoGoesThere
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mvassilev
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted March 11, 2016 08:57 PM |
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fred79 said:
@ mvass: a graphic does not a reality make. even if it wasn't on the news, i would know what's been going down. gunshots don't lie. bodies don't lie.
Of course there are murders, I never said otherwise. But the trend has been one of their prevalence decreasing. I recommend looking at my links - while crime is higher than it was in the 60s, it's still significantly lower than it was two or three decades ago. And the point of the chart is that even then it was low by historical standards.
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Eccentric Opinion
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fred79
Disgraceful
Undefeatable Hero
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posted March 11, 2016 09:32 PM |
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Raenus said:
fred79 said:
@ raenus: that's fine, but you still assume that we WANT the worst to happen.
Not want, no one in their right mind wants it. But it does appear that you delight in it. You in particular take every opportunity you can to bring up how doomed we are.
i utterly detest lies and dishonesty, and that includes self-delusion. i speak out about it whenever i see it. i'm not reporting what i see and feel because i like it, but because it HAS to be said. i always feel like i'm constantly trying to remind people of reality, whereas so many would rather delude themselves that everything will be ok. ESPECIALLY when it's clear that it WON'T BE.
do you think that, because i merely WILL it, that bad things like the polar ice caps melting, the atmosphere going buck-wild, or society growing to a point to where it can no longer sustain itself, happens?
i get the idea, that people who deny what is happening around them, and think a simple statistic or graph can reliably tell them everything they need to know, think people like me view themselves as some kind of "neo" in a self-made matrix, instead of just another guy reporting what's happening around him. because that's ALL I AM.
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Raenus
Famous Hero
Grouchy curmudgeon
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posted March 11, 2016 10:02 PM |
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Edited by Raenus at 22:03, 11 Mar 2016.
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fred79 said:
i utterly detest lies and dishonesty, and that includes self-delusion. i speak out about it whenever i see it. i'm not reporting what i see and feel because i like it, but because it HAS to be said. i always feel like i'm constantly trying to remind people of reality, whereas so many would rather delude themselves that everything will be ok. ESPECIALLY when it's clear that it WON'T BE.
do you think that, because i merely WILL it, that bad things like the polar ice caps melting, the atmosphere going buck-wild, or society growing to a point to where it can no longer sustain itself, happens?
Did Nostradamus cause the end of the world? No, and I hold nothing against him. I hold nothing against what you are doing either, however the original post asked what others thought so I answered. I am not trying to make you stop. Only putting my opinion out there.
I had a long wall of text trying to explain my outlook here, but this sums up pretty much everything I could say on the subject. I highly recommend that you listen to the whole thing, it is something a lot of people could benefit from listening to.
Click, and enjoy.
I call you a doomsaying peasant, you call me an ostrich with my head in the ground. I can't change your opinion, and you can't change mine. Live and let live.
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Creature Quest: HaltWhoGoesThere
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted March 11, 2016 10:21 PM |
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Fred, drama queen, it's not about FACTS, it's all about fact INTERPRETATION.
For example, for the sake of the argument: remind me why the melting of the ice caps is "bad". Or what about it is bad exactly. For whom?
And why do you think that progress WOULDN'T come with a cost. You cannot double and triple the life expectancy of a species and establish a dominating position in any environmental system without unwished for side effects. I mean, that's to be expected, right?
So as a species we have yet to learn to adjust our growth with a view on how many we can really feed - or with a view on better sharing. But keep in mind, from an evolutionary pov, we don't need to - it's a problem that solves it itself, via natural selection. It's when we are not accepting that when we actually ARE NOT SATISFIED with that. In practise a number of people starve to death each year UNNECESSARILY. From a species pov it's irrelevant. It's just from our OWN, more-than-evolutionary pov, that is entirely human and completely against any natural order, that this is unacceptable.
It is not our FAULT that things are the way they are - we didn't MAKE the rules. However, we might be able to change them. Unfortunately, there is no real guide line how and to what, so it's a bit try and error.
But make no mistake - it's not WE who are cruel - it's nature itself. Or do you see "animals rights" movements there?
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Stevie
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted March 11, 2016 11:14 PM |
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JollyJoker said:
For example, for the sake of the argument: remind me why the melting of the ice caps is "bad". Or what about it is bad exactly. For whom?
Bad for the millions of fertile acres and people who'd be affected by the increasing sea level? Bad for the sea currents and arctic fauna? Bad for the climate suffering increasingly scorching temperatures because there's no catalyst anymore? Forests catching fire more often and huge areas replaced by desert?
And I don't buy the evolution / nature is cruel argument which seems more of a cop out to save face from the real culprit which I have no doubt is humanity first and foremost. Even in your story, the more-than-evolutionary-pov and the capacity to feel empathy are the product of millennia of cruel and unsympathetic evolution, so why not give it credit rather than use it as a throwback argument? I don't see the sense in it. We have the power to chance whichever way we've been granted it, so use it to oppose the destruction rather than be complacent with the situation.
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Guide to a Great Heroes Game
The Young Traveler
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mvassilev
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted March 11, 2016 11:46 PM |
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Stevie, have you looked at current nature? Animals suffering from diseases, being hunted, starving to death, and so on - hardly a pleasant existence, and much of the badness has nothing to do with humans.
And yes, we have evolved capabilities that let us do better, but millions of years of suffering is hardly something to give credit to.
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Eccentric Opinion
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