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| Thread: Football fans "feeding" coins to the refugees. |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 · «PREV |
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blizzardboy
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posted March 18, 2016 04:38 PM |
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Stevie said:
I think I'll ask the basic, simple question here: So?
Fans of soccer clubs do stupid things like that all the time, they're not in any way representative of a population. And technically, they were paying for their entertainment. Also, no one forced any of those refugees to pick the coins up and therefore "shame" themselves that way, they did that because they wanted to, and hastily so.
So I personally don't see the issue. It just appears to me that the OP is biased and wants to raise some pity for the refugees.
Not really valid. You have a person - especially a person illiterate to a new culture - in strenuous circumstances and they're still not necessarily "forced" to do things but you're stacking the odds against them, and in this case, for your own amusement. What the football fans were doing was extremely rude and immature.
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Stevie
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posted March 18, 2016 08:34 PM |
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Edited by Stevie at 20:35, 18 Mar 2016.
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blizzardboy said:
Stevie said:
I think I'll ask the basic, simple question here: So?
Fans of soccer clubs do stupid things like that all the time, they're not in any way representative of a population. And technically, they were paying for their entertainment. Also, no one forced any of those refugees to pick the coins up and therefore "shame" themselves that way, they did that because they wanted to, and hastily so.
So I personally don't see the issue. It just appears to me that the OP is biased and wants to raise some pity for the refugees.
Not really valid. You have a person - especially a person illiterate to a new culture - in strenuous circumstances and they're still not necessarily "forced" to do things but you're stacking the odds against them, and in this case, for your own amusement. What the football fans were doing was extremely rude and immature.
Who's this you you're speaking of? What stacked odds? Whose responsibility is them acting on their illiteracy to European culture? I don't think Europe invaded the refugees, but the refugees invaded Europe, more than willingly and accepting of any social consequences. Those that made it here are being taken care of so that they don't have to beg for their lives on the streets. Or are you denying that?
There's no way someone should feel pity for begging foreigners that already take shelter on our soil, eat our food and drink our water which we pay for. But they're not refugees, so there's no point in arguing.
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Salamandre
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Wog refugee
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posted March 18, 2016 08:59 PM |
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The way we are constantly spied, filmed, recorded then superficially judged is worrisome.
This is a phenomenon which greatly amplified in the last years, when basically people act as always, sometimes they do good things, sometimes dumb things -which is our right also, plz throw the stone the one who never did, BUT then you have the internetz vigilantes cavalry, always ready to distribute or remove morale points and throw scornful adjectives.
These football fans didn't ask anything, it is their right to act dumb or immature when celebrating something, they didn't invade anyone's land, they are not responsible about anyone from that gypsy clan, they didn't force the gypsies to crawl, they didn't hurt physically anyone. Everyone should have also the right to act dumb in his country without constantly having Mr. Perfect from Gulu land labeling him of humanity trash.
The only thing which was out of place there was the gypsies presence. Clandestine, therefore criminals. Apply the law before anything else.
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artu
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posted March 18, 2016 08:59 PM |
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Edited by artu at 21:05, 18 Mar 2016.
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@Stevie
His is obviously a rhetorical you meaning the Dutch fans. One can choose not to help them thinking "they are already taken care of by the state" or simply declare he doesn't have to care. But what is objected to here is not apathy, it's the humiliation. The situation of the refugees in general is not as you described anyway, there are millions on the run and naturally, not all of them are taken care of adequately. It's a hard task.
And I suggest you drop the "we." You are not from wealthy Germany or Sweden. Most people from those countries who think like that, also think like that when it comes to immigrants from your country. People from Romania (especially gypsies) are targeted by prejudice and scorn no less than Middle-Easterners are.
@Sal
Well, what I hear on the interview is they are from Soganli (in Istanbul). Gypsies there originally came from Bulgaria about 60 years ago and when Bulgaria entered the EU, they were all given Schengen passports due to their Bulgarian origins. So, they are not criminals for being there.
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Salamandre
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posted March 18, 2016 09:08 PM |
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Schengen is an aberration. You have open borders now between countries where the same job income is 10 times greater in one of them. Even a beggar will make 100 x profit in France than in Bulgaria or any east poor country. An aberration.
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Stevie
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posted March 18, 2016 09:09 PM |
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So how would exactly the Dutch fans stack the odds against them? By throwing money at them? No, I believe that you is an empty word with no real entity behind it. There's no one in Europe stacking any odds against any refugee, quite the very contrary actually. That was my point.
On the other hand, by we I meant the European countries that agreed to shelter and feed the refugees, of which my country is also part of. Wealthy as Germany or not, we're still holding our end of the bargain.
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blizzardboy
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posted March 18, 2016 11:32 PM |
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1) The security concerns over large waves of immigrants is very concerning, but barring that, Germany isn't stupid. They're taking refugees other than for humanitarian reasons.
2) "Stacking the odds against them" meaning that you're taking people that are financially destitute (whether you have state programs to ensure their wellbeing or not, they don't have much financial assets of their own), and then throwing coins at them, and then you're saying that it's their fault for bending over and grabbing them. You're putting them into a situation where you expect them to behave a certain way
I'm told this video is actually gypsies and not recent immigrants, but the point still stands that you're taking a disadvantaged group of people and using their desperation for amusement, which is dehumanization.
Oh, and another point:
Nobody is taking the immature football fans away in vans to be prosecuted. Giving and accepting criticism is part of life. Deal with it.
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