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| Thread: Statement by Donald J. Trump, 45th President of the United States of America |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 · «PREV |
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artu
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
My BS sensor is tingling again
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posted April 04, 2023 06:53 AM |
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Well, rather than two pillars of thought and a duality between them, back then, religion was embedded in everything, philosophy, art, law, even science. In terms of high culture, Islamic sphere was no different than Christianity in this regard, they had philosophers and they were very much aware of the Greek inheritance. Religion is primarily a story people identify themselves with, not a school of thought. The main difference is, at some point, Europe produced the social classes to break the authority of the church, transform dominant culture and Islam didnt. How much of this was enabled by canonical difference in the first place is a question of chicken or egg. But I dont think it was overwhelmigly decisive because people find ways to adjust and interpret their religion if there is a social demand to do that. Just look at Arab billionares, they dont live like the poor masses.
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Are you pretty? This is my occasion. - Ghost
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted April 04, 2023 08:39 AM |
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Ok, there are three different things that we are discussing in this thread, and they should be kep somewhat separate from each other.
1) Religion - what it was. Here my opinion is - no difference. It had a purpose, at some point in history it was helpful, but it also cemented domination of one half of the people over the other (which has been a pretty bad effect.
2) Religion - what it IS. And here it LOOKS like things has changed for the Christian denomination, but not for the Islam. But that's not really true. Even secularization wouldn't have been much of a factor without the chaos of the 20th century, the revolutions and great wars and economic criseses and so on, because it wouldn't have changed the basic ideas that are deeply rooted within societies about what is godly and right and what is ungodly and wrong. The ideas had been developed in the 19. century, under the impressions and consequences of the industrialization, sure, but it took the explosion of the 20th century and the destruction of societies to really take hold. What do you think why the USA are still so "un-secularized" compared to Europe? (An issue worth discussing.)
Yes, things have been changed - but that's because religion was swept back, not because religion changed. True, Christian denominations made more or less concessions, read the sign of the times and so on - but the problem is, the holy book is still the same and unchanged, and there will always be idiots who will cite the old stuff and point their finger - nowhere more so than in the bigotted US of A.
Islam on the other hand - where it rules it still rules and with an iron fist. You might compare it with Spain under the inquisition in some countries.
3) The religious political groups and the influence they are seeking.
Well, obviously, in the Christian world there are a lot of them, and they cover a broad spectrum - but in many countries, if not all, Christian religion is part of the political spectrum. They are more or less part of the "conservatives" and are in a position to push their (relatively moderate) interests. Not the more radical stuff, but religion IS a factor, when it's about abortion laws and so on.
This is different for other religions - but it is obviously natural for them to look for political influence. France is of course pretty interesting here - their "Christian Democratic" spectrum has been in flow and ever-changing.
Now, the Islam doesn't have a Jesus, but a Mohammed and that guy is more Moses than Jesus, so the laws are unmitigatedly strict. Which means, Islam has only one voice - that of the prophet. Christianity SHOULD have one only as well, but sadly has two, which makes things confusing (and problematic).
Now. Islam sucks. Badly. Islamic countries suck. Badly. But is the Hinu India better? Europe is better, not because Christian religion is better but because we are more secularized. I wouldn't want to live in the US, in the Bible Belt region either. But that doesn't mean the Christian religion isn't still fighting against everything that is against God's word, although God's word shouldn't be of interest, only Jesus' words, because Christians are no Jews, but Christians, but that's not how it works. The gay-hating, mysogynist, anti-abortionist bible thumper is just as bad as the gay-hating, mysogynist, Quoran-citing muslim.
EDIT: Oh, I forgot. Yes, sure, just because someone is supported by someone else doesn't mean that someone is bad. I didn't make that point, though. Trump isn't bad becuse he's supported by bad groups. He doesn't need that, he's nad in his own right.
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Drakon-Deus
Undefeatable Hero
Qapla'
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posted April 04, 2023 09:05 AM |
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Trump may be bad, but Democrats are no better.
So what's the alternative? A Republican other than Trump, perhaps.
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Horses don't die on a dog's wish.
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Salamandre
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Wog refugee
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posted April 04, 2023 09:09 AM |
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JollyJoker
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
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posted April 04, 2023 12:50 PM |
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The answer is in the US election system "winner takes it all" which makes DIFFERENTIATION a lost cause.
If the USA want a change in their politcial landscape they have to change their election system.
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Bytebandit
Promising
Famous Hero
Soul Merchant
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posted April 04, 2023 10:16 PM |
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Listening to Bragg speaking as I type this, Live! Anyway, Mr. T was indicted, or arrested today. Looks like someone told him to collect the wrong kind of files.
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NotBlizzardboy
Hired Hero
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posted April 05, 2023 06:40 AM |
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As much as I dislike Trump as a person, I’m ambivalent about the indictment. I would've been happy about it a few years ago but now I'm not so sure.
In one respect, it’s a sign of progress that the highest profile person in the country is still being indicted. There’s a large number of high-profile politicians 1870s-1910s who theoretically should have gotten into trouble but never did. “Public servants” who were using their positions for personal profit in exchange for so-and-so vote not to add regulations related to food safety or railroad working conditions or something of that sort. And then of course there’s Nixon in the 70s; the man orchestrated a major act of burglary and he’s only ever impeached for it lol. That’s disappointing.
But Trump’s plan to use this drama as a means of gaining popularity and martyr status (pretend martyr, anyway) probably isn’t a bad plan. So yeah, in that respect, I sort of wish that he simply got away with it instead so that he could fade away from the public scene. He’s already 76. That’s roughly 76 years past the legal retirement age in France.
It’s all water under the bridge now. Guess we’ll have to wait and see what happens next. I’d really rather not be alive to watch my country get ripped apart. 
Also, if Trump continues to poll high within his party for the next several months, I wouldn’t at all be surprised if DeSantis held off from running in the GOP primaries and then entered the race for 2028.
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