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angelito
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
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posted March 23, 2003 11:50 AM |
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Quote:
A playstation would be appreciated 
Very very good aspect Melissa_X!!
Perhaps some guys in this thread could think only a few minutes per day about the poor poor children in Iraq and also in the other countries, which don´t have ANY idea, why the "older" people from different countries don´t like each other and want to hurt everyone.
Does every american children understand, why WTC crashed on september 11? Does any child believe, that this was done in justice, only because many of the islam people say so?
I don´t think so!
So why should the children in Iraq believe, that this war with all its destruction, frightness, pain....... is so good for them and makes their future a better one?
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Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.
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AdyY
Tavern Dweller
Lord Protector The Electrifing
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posted March 23, 2003 10:12 PM |
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Irak?!?!!!!!!!!!?????????
It is so simple.People say that politics are so complicated
but is not true.To understand the politics,you've got to understand the people,the society and their needs based
on their level in the country.USA is the greatest military
power in the world but as every titan needs fonds,lots of
them.Petrol.Sadam is a very selfish man,and USA can't have
their petrol assured.There are also other things that brought the war but this is the main one.
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Power OF Da Electrons
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dArGOn
Famous Hero
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posted March 24, 2003 02:09 AM |
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Edited By: dArGOn on 23 Mar 2003
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“and another thing when I mentioned the so called system. It's interesting that a communist or socialist party doesn't exist in the US but there is a Nazist party...interesting.”
Sir Dunco your ignorance knows no bounds…try doing some research on subjects before you speak….you make yourself look foolish when you spout complete falsehoods.
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“This from someone who has used the UN to justify the conflict, through the resolutions and conditions imposed on Iraq that you now claim the US is enforcing.”
I have ALWAYS maintained that USA is a sovereign nation and does not need anyone’s permission to defend herself or make humanitarian interventions….but yes 1441 does authorize serious consequences…the UN has been fairly irrelevant for quite some while…their own lack of fortitude in holding account for 1441 now proves them completely irrelevant…I have never wavered from the previous statements so I am not for sure what you are getting at.
Gaurdian reported yesterday:
“Ajami Saadoun Khlis, whose son and brother were executed under the Saddam regime, sobbed like a child on the shoulder of the Guardian's Egyptian translator. He mopped the tears but they kept coming.
"You just arrived," he said. "You're late. What took you so long? God help you become victorious. I want to say hello to Bush, to shake his hand. We came out of the grave."
"For a long time we've been saying: 'Let them come'," his wife, Zahara, said. "Last night we were afraid, but we said: 'Never mind, as long as they get rid of him, as long as they overthrow him, no problem'." Their 29-year-old son was executed in July 2001, accused of harbouring warm feelings for Iran.”
I am curious what those against the regime change would of told him and his mother?
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privatehudson
Responsible
Legendary Hero
The Ultimate Badass
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posted March 24, 2003 02:25 AM |
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I have never wavered from the previous statements so I am not for sure what you are getting at.
Well lets see, if you declare an organisation Irrelevant, you therefore declare it's decisions irrelevant and to have no power. If they have no power your justification in the eyes of the world becomes purely about america and Britain doing what they want to do because they can and not because some world body says they can. That opens a whole can of worms for other nations to do the same. Including.....
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USA is a sovereign nation and does not need anyone’s permission to defend herself
Then neither does Iraq as a sovereign nation, but you want to use an irrelevant institution to help impose the irrelevant resolutions to demand she disarms herself in order to not be able to defend herself. Then you invade. What a skillfull use of irrelevance to do such a thing. I under-estimated bush clearly, he is intelligent enough on the world stage.....
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We're on an express elevator to Hell, goin' down!
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Wolfman
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Insomniac
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posted March 24, 2003 04:24 AM |
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This just in:
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - U.S. forces on Sunday found what they believe to be a "huge" chemical weapons factory near the Iraqi city of Najaf, about 100 miles south of Baghdad, U.S. networks and the Jerusalem Post reported.
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Anyway...
So, you people wanted evidence? Look at articles like this.
I know an Iraqi family that lives in my city, and they are all for this war! The wife's brother was killed by Saddam and he killed other family member too. They said that the protestors don't know what they are talking about. You say things like "think of the civilians" to people who support the war, well think of the civilians when you condem the war. Leaving Saddam in power is not doing the civilians any favors. Why else would the regular soldiers and civilians welcome US troops, if Saddam was so good?
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Laelth
Famous Hero
Laelth rhymes with stealth.
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posted March 24, 2003 05:43 AM |
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Edited By: Laelth on 23 Mar 2003
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All the talk about whether or not Saddam Hussein has or tried to produce phohibited weapons seems pointless to me. I don't think anyone denies that Iraq did its best to hide its weapons and its weapons programs from UN inspectors. Iraq defied the UN at every turn. That's not at issue. The question is who ought to be repsonsible for enforcing UN resolutions? Should it be the UN or should it be the US and Britain acting alone? It seems strange that the Bush administration would use various UN resolutions as a basis for conducting a military campaign that the UN, itself, refused to authorize, and it is no wonder that the world community is horrified by this war because it represents a willingness on the part of the world's only superpower to use her military might in open defiance of world opinion.
America's willingness to attack nations it (alone) deems dangerous constitutes a threat to the sovereignty of every nation on Earth. The Bush/Wolfowitz doctrine of pre-emptive war is the problem, and it's that doctrine's implications that have the world in an uproar, not Saddam Hussein, nor his "weapons of mass destruction."
-Laelth
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Alan P. Taylor, Attorney at Law, LLC
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Vlaad
Admirable
Legendary Hero
ghost of the past
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posted March 24, 2003 02:46 PM |
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Wolfie, let the people of Iraq overthrow their dictatorship themselves. Don't bomb them "for their own good".
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privatehudson
Responsible
Legendary Hero
The Ultimate Badass
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posted March 24, 2003 03:26 PM |
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Quote:
Why else would the regular soldiers and civilians welcome US troops, if Saddam was so good?
When you live under a dictator so long, the first rule of survival is to support and be friendly with anyone in power in your region. Doesn't mean they actually want you there, just that they would rather see you than hussain.......
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We're on an express elevator to Hell, goin' down!
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csarmi
Supreme Hero
gets back
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posted March 24, 2003 04:48 PM |
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Edited By: csarmi on 24 Mar 2003
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Wolfman, we'll never know whether the US troops find real chemical factories.
Not that it matters.
Because even if they don't, US has to create false evidences to backup their war.
Dargon, you can't be real!
Supposed you are "liberated" by enemy forces which just shot the hell out of your neighbourhood, what would you say if you're interviewed by them?
What would you dare to say?
What do you think will determine whether your words are used in the article?
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privatehudson
Responsible
Legendary Hero
The Ultimate Badass
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posted March 25, 2003 12:10 AM |
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Quote:
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - U.S. forces on Sunday found what they believe to be a "huge" chemical weapons factory near the Iraqi city of Najaf, about 100 miles south of Baghdad, U.S. networks and the Jerusalem Post reported.
Not that I doubt the report entirely, but I'd prefer to wait until someone a little more neutral than allied soldiers before we make a judgement call as to what that place is.
On another issue, at least this war is mirroring the 1st one, the americans have already managed to shoot down british planes..... APC's last war, planes this
*sighs*
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We're on an express elevator to Hell, goin' down!
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SirDunco
Responsible
Supreme Hero
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posted March 25, 2003 09:49 PM |
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dargon and wolfman...the us communist party has been held down by the Us goverment since the 40's and so has been all sort of information or self propagation...the us can't ban them beacouse it would cause an international incident. dargon u are calling me ignorant??! i won't even reply to that comment, so stupid it is.
now to resolution 1441...it doesn't give an acount of war or aggresion used so it is quite mind provoking how they can attack with that so called resolution.
and i saw herr bush speak today and his face and that bs propaganda absolutely ruined my day...i can't belive how someone can be so naive as to belive that...
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The_Gootch
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Kneel Before Me Sons of HC!!
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posted March 26, 2003 01:27 AM |
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Let's give him a hand folks, at least he's trying
Sir_Dunco, you obviously subscribe to the,"If I can write 1,000 lies about U.S., people might miss 10 of them and start believing me" philosophy.
Quote: the us communist party has been held down by the Us goverment since the 40's and so has been all sort of information or self propagation...the us can't ban them beacouse it would cause an international incident.
Is this the best our resident 16 year old Marxist can do?
<Laughing>
Come child, it was only a few years ago that you were let out of your house without your parents needing to chaperone you.
<Laughing>
Those who are most ignorant of a topic have the strongest opinions about them. You, you godless, commie, draft-dodging, pinko, pacifist heathen...you fit that comment soooooo well. Your flamboyance and your outrageousness know no bounds.
<Laughing>
I used to get mad @ you Sir_Dunco. Guess what I'm doing now?
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dArGOn
Famous Hero
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posted March 26, 2003 05:38 AM |
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Here we have the Geneva convention thrown out the window by Saddam… POW’s being assassinated and POW’s being humiliated. We have Iraqi armed forces pretending to be civilians so as to murder coalition troops….we have Iraqi army feigning surrender only to kill coalition soldiers. Barbaric practices by a barbaric regime….so one must ask…where is the international outcry (at least from all the major news sources I have seen)? Why isn’t the League of Saddam Appeasers denouncing this behavior in the strongest terms? The general silence is deafening….are Saddam’s legion of appeasers morally bankrupt? Maybe the appeasers are decrying the events and the news I have seen is not reporting it, but telling indeed if the appeasers are remaining silent.
Also interesting about all the allegations about France’s and Russian businesses actively supplying Iraq with weapon in recent days/months.
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dArGOn
Famous Hero
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posted March 26, 2003 05:43 AM |
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Quote
“If they have no power your justification in the eyes of the world becomes purely about america and Britain doing what they want to do because they can and not because some world body says they can.”
Exactly…you have to do what is right no matter what others may think…you consider their opinions…you weigh their opinions…but in the end each person and nation is accountable for their own actions or lack thereof. You are a student of history…look at what the League of Nations did to stop WWII….and they were irrelevant.
Here is a great quote from Clifford May that shows how the UN is and has been irrelevant:
“The U.N. was born just after World War II. Its prewar predecessor, the League of Nations, died after it failed to stand up to German Nazism, Italian Fascism, and Japanese Militarism. The U.N. was supposed to do better.
It didn't happen. The U.N. never lived up to the hope and expectations of its more idealistic founders. According to the U.N. Charter, among its central purposes was to "maintain international peace and security, and to that end: to take effective collective measures for the prevention and removal of threats to the peace."
But when Mao's Cultural Revolution killed millions, the U.N. did nothing. When the Khmer Rouge was slaughtering the population of Cambodia, the U.N. was silent. When genocide was carried out in Rwanda, the U.N. sat on its hands. When mass murder was waged against the people of Bosnia and Kosovo, the U.N. made the situation worse. (And, of course, when President Clinton finally intervened militarily in Bosnia and Kosovo, it was without U.N. authorization).
The U.N. turned a blind eye when Afghanistan was hijacked by al Qaeda terrorists. It snoozed while Somalia collapsed into anarchy. Muammar Qaddafi's Libya currently heads its human-rights commission — and if Kofi Annan or any other U.N. official thinks that an outrage, he's kept his opinion to himself.
Have there been any exceptions, any successes? Well, in 1967, when Egypt, Syria, Jordan, and other Arab countries were mobilizing for a war to wipe Israel off the face of the Earth, the U.N. did do something: It removed its "peacekeepers" so they would not get in the way. (It was as a result of winning that war, you'll recall, that Israel came into possession of both the West Bank and the Gaza Strip, territories over which fighting continues till this day — with no constructive role ever played by the U.N.)
The U.N. never became a maker of international law or a source of moral authority — though through a clever combination of wishful thinking and public relations many people were misled to believe otherwise.
Instead, the U.N. has been a cozy retreat for transnational bureaucrats. Leave aside such lofty goals as peace-making, peace-keeping, and the spread of human rights. The U.N. also has been a failure at contributing to economic development. Name one country — just one — more prosperous now than a generation ago due to U.N. economic assistance.
Nor has the U.N. even been an efficient provider of relief (which is what you administer when development fails and famine strikes). As a New York Times correspondent in Africa, I saw first-hand how much superior were the relief efforts of such faith-based organizations as World Vision and Catholic Relief Services.”
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dArGOn
Famous Hero
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posted March 26, 2003 05:47 AM |
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Quote
“Wolfman, we'll never know whether the US troops find real chemical factories.
Not that it matters.
Because even if they don't, US has to create false evidences to backup their war.”
See no reasoning with these people….they say there are no WMD…they say prove it….you prove it then they say it was made up…..thus the circle of insanity turns.
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“On another issue, at least this war is mirroring the 1st one, the americans have already managed to shoot down british planes..... APC's last war, planes this”
And UK has killed it own troops and US has killed its own troops…a sad fact of war…friendly fire is one of the most dangerous things in a battlefield.
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“only people that are going to feel the impact of this assault are the civilians,”
Hmm I guess that is why coalition forces have gone to extreme lengths, costs and difficulties to hit military targets when it is so much more simple and less dangerous for us to level everything that poses a potential threat without a care for civilians. I guess that is why coalition forces are bringing food and medical attention to assist the Iraqi citizens.
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“I hate the fact that so many innocent lives are going to be wasted because of this”
Hmm is this selective hate or were you as dismayed when Saddam killed millions…gassed thousands…tortured, raped, and maimed untold thousands? Seems like quite selective sympathy you have. See your sympathy is inaction and translates into continued torture, rape, and loss of life. My sympathy actually accomplishes the release of people from their shackles and protects untold millions from Saddam’s support of terrorism.
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csarmi
Supreme Hero
gets back
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posted March 26, 2003 03:48 PM |
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Edited By: csarmi on 26 Mar 2003
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I think that Iraq fights this war reasonably.
Their actions are fair so far.
The Geneva convention is nothing to do with civil-pretending forces anyways.
Dargon, I've told you before and now I tell you again. I am no "people". If you quote from me, don't treat me as a 3rd person.
Thank you.
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privatehudson
Responsible
Legendary Hero
The Ultimate Badass
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posted March 26, 2003 06:56 PM |
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Quote:
Exactly…you have to do what is right no matter what others may think…you consider their opinions…you weigh their opinions…but in the end each person and nation is accountable for their own actions or lack thereof. You are a student of history…look at what the League of Nations did to stop WWII….and they were irrelevant.
The problem with this is that it either forces nations into war/severe diplomacy (ie partial war) to prevent other nations from acting or doing nothing at all. Through organisations like the UN, various actions such as wars can be brought to a quicker end, assuming there is enough nations bothered to take action. It also allows many smaller nations to have a voice and act against the larger nations that would not happen without the UN.
It's not perfect, but it does stop or delay various nations from doing what the hell they please.
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“The U.N. was born just after World War II. Its prewar predecessor, the League of Nations, died after it failed to stand up to German Nazism, Italian Fascism, and Japanese Militarism. The U.N. was supposed to do better.
It didn't happen. The U.N. never lived up to the hope and expectations of its more idealistic founders. According to the U.N. Charter, among its central purposes was to "maintain international peace and security, and to that end: to take effective collective measures for the prevention and removal of threats to the peace
I'd say it managed better than the LON, no world war has yet occured. Also one of the reasons why the LON failed was america's refusal to be involved, removing some of it's power to affect other nations. If the UN is without american backing then of course it will be in trouble.
As for the rest of the comments..... well that's about as biased as you get, concentrating on purely the bad aspects of the UN and not either the reasons for those failiures, or the sucesses. If you're going to start telling me that America, released from the bonds of the UN either has or will do better then frankly you're in a dreamworld.
Which brings the problem of leaving the world's sole superpower in charge of sorting problems out without a world body to regulate such matters. You rely on the good will of said superpower and that the superpower will never fall into anarchy or dictatorship. If that happened, without the UN, combating such a superpower would be even harder....
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See no reasoning with these people….they say there are no WMD…they say prove it….you prove it then they say it was made up…..thus the circle of insanity turns.
Before we jump to conclusions, I would accept an INDEPENDANT judgement on the site, until then shall we at least wait until a more expert opinion than the military to see if it's what it appears to be, and what state it's in shall we?
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Here we have the Geneva convention thrown out the window by Saddam
One name, Guantanamo Bay! Like you're sticking to the convention there huh?
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We have Iraqi armed forces pretending to be civilians so as to murder coalition troops….
Standard special forces tactics really, let's not be biased here huh?
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we have Iraqi army feigning surrender only to kill coalition soldiers
Like this has never happened by british or american troops.....
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Barbaric practices by a barbaric regime….so one must ask…where is the international outcry (at least from all the major news sources I have seen)?
You're clearly not seeing the right sources, the papers here are all over the story.
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Why isn’t the League of Saddam Appeasers denouncing this behavior in the strongest terms?
Probably because it's not that uncommon a practice really.
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but telling indeed if the appeasers are remaining silent.
And america was deafening in it's silence over the treatment of the Al Quaeda prisoners in Guantanamo Bay....
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Also interesting about all the allegations about France’s and Russian businesses actively supplying Iraq with weapon in recent days/months.
Nothing especially Franco/Russian about that, the people who made british 7.62mm nato ammunition flew all their remaining stocks to Argentina days before the outbreak of war and the british counter invasion because the Argentinian forces used a belgian made weapon using 7.62mm ammunition.....
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We're on an express elevator to Hell, goin' down!
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csarmi
Supreme Hero
gets back
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posted March 26, 2003 08:44 PM |
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Dargon, I do not even know what WMD means.
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privatehudson
Responsible
Legendary Hero
The Ultimate Badass
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posted March 27, 2003 12:28 AM |
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Weapons of Mass Destruction
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We're on an express elevator to Hell, goin' down!
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Katino
Tavern Dweller
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posted March 27, 2003 02:27 AM |
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FOR the war
To the protesters,
Do you know what sickens me the most? Little brainless twits who think that the way to solve the problem in Iraq is to let the “Butcher of Baghdad” sit on his throne and continue to kill innocent people while we just talk and talk and talk. These protesters complain about the war in Iraq but I don’t see them doing anything about North Korea where people are starving and dying, I don’t see these protesting about Israel and Palestine and the killing that goes on there. They didn’t even protest when Saddam Hussein killed thousands of Kurdish civilians with chemical and biological weapons or when children were led into minefields in the Iraq/Iran war to make a clear road for troops. But they’ll attack President George Bush for trying to free the people of Iraq from a tyrant who has killed at least 2000000 people in his life, but hey, I guess none of that means anything to these protesters since the only thing between their ears is space dust. It is always seen as Americas fault. Every other country is innocent but America. America is always wrong. So the torture of millions of civilians is Bush’s fault? The Iraqis attacking the Kurds is America’s fault? Saddam Hussein trying to buy or make nuclear weapons is Bush’s fault? Get real!
These protesters are always telling people that war is not the answer but they never give an alternative. If war isn’t the answer then what is? Forget the UN they’re a waste of time, Saddam has had 12 years to comply with the UN but he knows that the UN is soft (like the protesters) when it comes to taking action so he presses on with his appalling acts of violence oppression. Now like most normal people I am against war in general. But time has run out and so have our options in dealing with this madman. Therefore military action remains to be the only credible solution. Just remember that you cannot reason with a madman, you can not say that talking will solve the problem because we have been talking about the problem for about 12 years and still nothing has happened. Saddam Hussein said that he had no scud missiles but what does he launch on the first day of the war?
If American troops enter Baghdad then yes there will be unavoidable civilian casualties. But if you leave Saddam alone then you are guaranteed hundreds of thousands of deaths. Not only do the majority of the people say this but also Iraqi people who have lived through Saddam’s terrible torture.
If we leave now and pull out, those civilians who supported the coalition will be killed by Saddam for supporting them. But that of course wouldn’t affect the protesters in the least. They’re all right, most of these protestors don’t work, they feed off the system and in general they don’t really give a stuff about anything unless it suits them, and they are so misinformed about this war. Where do they get your information from to back up your claims, I’m guessing the back of a Cornflakes box.
As for the student protestor’s do they know what they are doing is illegal? They talk about the war being illegal but are not worried about committing truancy, which proves they are all hypocrites. And how is a 7 or 8 year-old child going to understand what’s going on in the Middle East. These students don’t even have a clue what goes on in this world and only see this as an excuse just to get out of school. Why don’t they do the protest on the weekend? The only excuse I have heard so far is that it will have more political impact. Well guess what, your protest will have such immeasurable value to the people of Australia and in fact around the world, that it is absolutely pointless in doing this. It seems rather ironic that these protestors are against war and violence yet they pelt people’s cars with eggs and paint, throw café furniture at police, keep knives with them, run around naked in the city, smashing windows and breaking out in to fights
Finally I would like to ask a question for all you dim witted protestors. If Bill Clinton were in power would you still be against the war? If the answer is YES then it just proves my point that you’re out then it proves that you only protest when it suits you. If your answer is NO then you’re more stupid than I gave you credit for. Why? Because when Clinton bombed Baghdad, snows like you didn’t protest about that either.
Note: For those in other countries who are against the war they also disgust me. If it weren’t for the Americans in world war two, the British would be speaking German, the French would be speaking German, China would be speaking Japanese and so would Australia.
So my advice to these protestors is to grow up, get a life and grow a brain.
-----CHAMP2-----
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