|
|
antipaladin
Promising
Legendary Hero
of Ooohs and Aaahs
|
posted August 23, 2007 09:47 AM |
|
|
oh but the problam is that iranm WILL back them, up onmce they will have balls to strike.
syria tired to evioide war as much as posible last time.
____________
types in obscure english
|
|
Binabik
Responsible
Legendary Hero
|
|
posted August 23, 2007 10:44 AM |
|
|
Quote:
Iran,ahamnjidad,that dwarf. (and yes i do hate hes guts).
That guy is dangerous. I think what really makes him dangerous beside his radical views is that he's real good in front of cameras. He's a perfect propaganda agent. He's very intelligent and speaks well. He completely understands that the war of minds can be won with words. And he's very good at it.
He says radical things to keep the fundamentalists and clerics happy and on his side. Then he can turn around and become a moderate with a smile on his face...and people believe him because of his speaking ability and knowing how to act for the cameras.
When the war in Iraq is over I think whoever the Iraqi leader is will have to be real strong to stand up to Ahmadinejad. Right now Iraq doesn't have anyone who can do that.
____________
|
|
antipaladin
Promising
Legendary Hero
of Ooohs and Aaahs
|
|
posted August 23, 2007 10:50 AM |
|
|
im sure there asre muslim chair people in usa. i think a puppet ruler in iraq could do the trick,dont you?
____________
types in obscure english
|
|
Binabik
Responsible
Legendary Hero
|
|
posted August 23, 2007 11:00 AM |
|
|
No, I think the new ruler in Iraq needs to be strong, not a puppet. He has to be strong and the people of Iraq and all it's neighbors need to see him as strong.
That's the only way the new leader and the new government will survive. He can't gain respect from all the various factions by being a puppet. He has to prove himself and that will take time. When the US leaves, the leader will be tested. If he hesitates or appears to be weak, he will be overthrown.
____________
|
|
antipaladin
Promising
Legendary Hero
of Ooohs and Aaahs
|
|
posted August 23, 2007 11:08 AM |
|
|
however an overconfident leader could prove dengerouse,or atleast troublsom,if he decideds usa has no longer influence on him,and cuts them off.would we have this all over again? a puppet atleast cannot really rebel.
____________
types in obscure english
|
|
Binabik
Responsible
Legendary Hero
|
|
posted August 23, 2007 11:45 AM |
|
|
Well, the biggest enemy is time. The US doesn't have the luxury of time to wait for Iraq to completely stabilize. Iraq needs to stand on it's own, and it needs to do it soon. That means a strong leader because a weak one won't survive.
The war has to do with public opinion as much as anything else. The US pushed the Iraqis into making a constitution and having elections in a very short period of time. In my opinion, they pushed it way too fast. It takes time to make a constitution and really think it through and look at all possibilities.
But that's in the past now. Iraq has a new constitution and elected government. Trying to change things now will be viewed as indecisive and weak. So in the war of minds and public opinion, the constitution needs to stay in place. That means keeping the elected leaders in place.
Ideally they would have a strong leader. But that's the problem, the current leadership is weak and are not viewed as being in charge. I would rather see strong leaders elected, even if that means taking a chance of electing leaders who are not US friendly. An elected leader will probably not be a fundamentalist radical. But if a weak leader is overthrown, he will almost certainly be replaced by a radical.
Anyway, it's way past bedtime
|
|
JoonasTo
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
What if Elvin was female?
|
|
posted August 23, 2007 02:19 PM |
|
|
Quote:
Quote:
Iran,ahamnjidad,that dwarf. (and yes i do hate hes guts).
That guy is dangerous. I think what really makes him dangerous beside his radical views is that he's real good in front of cameras. He's a perfect propaganda agent. He's very intelligent and speaks well. He completely understands that the war of minds can be won with words. And he's very good at it.
He says radical things to keep the fundamentalists and clerics happy and on his side. Then he can turn around and become a moderate with a smile on his face...and people believe him because of his speaking ability and knowing how to act for the cameras.
When the war in Iraq is over I think whoever the Iraqi leader is will have to be real strong to stand up to Ahmadinejad. Right now Iraq doesn't have anyone who can do that.
Hitler anyone? 
____________
DON'T BE A NOOB, JOIN A.D.V.E.N.T.U.R.E.
|
|
mvassilev
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted August 23, 2007 02:35 PM |
|
|
Quote:
@MV well israel supports usa too with oil,and you need allys enyware anyway doesnt metter.
That's all very well, but if we won't need oil...
Quote:
oh but the problam is that iranm WILL back them
At the moment, it seems that even a hated mutual enemy won't make Shi'ites back up Sunnis.
Quote:
No, I think the new ruler in Iraq needs to be strong, not a puppet.
A puppet ruler can be strong. All that Iraq needs (after it stabilizes) is to raise its living standard with oil revenues. When Iranians see how good life is there, the support of the radicals will wane.
____________
Eccentric Opinion
|
|
antipaladin
Promising
Legendary Hero
of Ooohs and Aaahs
|
|
posted August 23, 2007 03:32 PM |
|
|
@jonas: my thoughts excally.
@MV you want to say,that you would abandon a humene being ,not to mention a countery,that are willing to work with you,to die,if you not gain anything from it?
curently ISRAEL is hated world wide,becouse of agratting antisemetism,i predict pogroms.bush steped in to help us. a small young nation to keep our 7 milion people alive and safe.
With america presence in the middle east we have legitimation to defend ourselfs. Without it,if we react like we can,the world will condem us more.
____________
types in obscure english
|
|
mvassilev
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted August 23, 2007 04:30 PM |
|
|
I don't think we should abandon Israel, but we should stop our imperialistic treatment of the Middle East. Remember, there are more people in the Muslim countries than there are in Israel. We should use diplomacy, not a fist.
____________
Eccentric Opinion
|
|
violent_flower
Promising
Supreme Hero
Almost there.
|
|
posted August 23, 2007 05:34 PM |
|
|
The fact is that these people are taught early on in life that we Americans must die. They use religion as their base for this, convincing young children if they kill Americans they will have a special place in Heaven where virgins will await them, 72 at that. Suicide is also a forbidden sin in their religion; to them suicide bombings is not a form of suicide, it is called martyr’s. Claiming that they die for the noblest of causes and that Allah will bring them back to life and then they will die the way that Allah had intended for them. Can I get a Amen?
I don’t care if you want to wear diapers on your head, I don’t care if your skin is black or green, and I don’t care what religion you worship. The problem is that once you have crossed the line of being sane and really think that you will be rewarded for killing others by being given virgins and several wives, that is it for me. I have no use for any of them and for those that don’t believe that they should perform these acts well more power to you. We wish to spare you and not harm you or yours that hold that same belief.
I have no tolerance for ignorance in any form that even remotely signifies this type of behavior. That includes African tribes that kill their own children as a sacrifice, FGM (female genital mutilation) also performed by Muslims for over 1400 years, or any sacrifice that harms other humans. Not in the name of any damn religion.
So I have no use for them, if there was a way to remove the innocent sane individuals from the country and children that still have a chance in this life I would, then I would mushroom the whole damn country and be done with them.
So wasting the lives of our own men for these pukes is just crazy. Somehow or another we feel justified and 9/11 is that justification according to Bush, with or without proof. Now that we have declared Iran another target we will be leaving or own home base bare and open for more attacks. I don’t know how to get them out safely but I sure wish that they were home.
____________
Learn how to duck and weave because I will throw truth at you all day!
|
|
baklava
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Mostly harmless
|
|
posted August 23, 2007 09:11 PM |
|
|
I think Bush actually wanted to attack Iran all the time, he just made a typo at a bad moment...
The American/muslim conflict is one of those in which I take a plain neutral stance. My country was at war with both, my country was at peace with both, I have friends among both, they both want to globalize their goals and religion, most people of both are too drowned in propaganda to understand the other side... This isn't the first nor the last time such a conflict happens between two peoples/countries/religions. Discussions can't really do anything about it, since the machinery is started, and the wall of difference too high. Just send the kids out to get butchered and if they're lucky earn a medal along the way. Nothing more you can do, and nothing more they want you to do.
____________
"Let me tell you what the blues
is. When you ain't got no
money,
you got the blues."
Howlin Wolf
|
|
antipaladin
Promising
Legendary Hero
of Ooohs and Aaahs
|
|
posted August 24, 2007 12:28 AM |
|
|
Nice comment bak,but you are right,I dont think much can be objective here,i know i cant,Living in constat threat of terror acts and of such isent best sourondings. Haterd among arabs and jews in israel is visbull and out in the open,i have arab frindes i know i can trust.
but this is not the point,to premote peace,we BOTH have to get to a conclusion,not force it.
____________
types in obscure english
|
|
mvassilev
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted August 24, 2007 12:33 AM |
|
|
Israel was a bad idea to start with. Why displace millions of Palestinians?
____________
Eccentric Opinion
|
|
antipaladin
Promising
Legendary Hero
of Ooohs and Aaahs
|
|
posted August 24, 2007 12:37 AM |
|
|
and where should we jews live,were to put the milions of ww2 refuges???!?!?
____________
types in obscure english
|
|
baklava
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Mostly harmless
|
|
posted August 24, 2007 12:59 AM |
|
|
Quote:
Israel was a bad idea to start with. Why displace millions of Palestinians?
Ok, let's follow that logic.
America was a bad idea to start with. Why kill and displace millions of native Americans?
England was a bad idea to start with. Why kill and displace thousands of Celts?
Turkey was a bad idea to start with. Why kill and displace thousands of Byzantines?
And so on and so forth.
Israel is the jewish holy land. They have more right to exist than many other countries.
____________
"Let me tell you what the blues
is. When you ain't got no
money,
you got the blues."
Howlin Wolf
|
|
roy-algriffin
Supreme Hero
Chocolate ice cream zealot
|
|
posted August 24, 2007 01:08 AM |
|
|
isreal was generally taken over by foreign nations anyway for quite a while. i believe it was mostly the english there when most of the (now) isrealis moved in. you could say its a bad idea but honestly its more like a lot of immigrants moving in there rather then the whole idea of the place being made from scratch.. and in fact tht most of thearabs werent killed and were basically just moved out of the border if at all (we do have quite a large percentage of arabs in isreal you know)
____________
"Am i a demon? No im a priest of the light! THE BLOODY RED LIGHT"
|
|
mvassilev
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted August 24, 2007 01:32 AM |
|
|
Quote:
and where should we jews live,were to put the milions of ww2 refuges???!?!?
Just have them go back to their homes. With compensations from the German government, of course.
Quote:
America was a bad idea to start with. Why kill and displace millions of native Americans?
It was necessary for Britain to expand. It had too many internal conflicts and too big of a population.
Quote:
England was a bad idea to start with. Why kill and displace thousands of Celts?
If you knew your history, you'd know that no Celts were displaced in the making of England. They were assimilated by the Anglo-Saxons, not displaced. Now, Wales, Scotland, and Ireland are a different story.
Quote:
Turkey was a bad idea to start with. Why kill and displace thousands of Byzantines?
You could say that WW2 was a bad idea. Why kill and displace thousands of Germans? I realize that it's not quite analagous, but still...
All of these situations are an example of "might makes right". If someone can do something that is beneficial to one's own self, they will probably do it. People may not like it, though. But the Palestinians are not Byzantines or Native Americans. They can fight back effectively. And all of the radical Muslims have enough might to try to enforce a right.
____________
Eccentric Opinion
|
|
antipaladin
Promising
Legendary Hero
of Ooohs and Aaahs
|
|
posted August 24, 2007 01:37 AM |
|
|
you royally piss me off,
"Isreal was a mistake".. you ware a mistake!
nothign can compenseted for councertrain camps and the deaths in the jewish hoalcust.
____________
types in obscure english
|
|
mvassilev
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
|
|
posted August 24, 2007 01:41 AM |
|
|
So you think that the only way to compensate for a wrong done to one people is to turn around and do it to someone else? It's like being punched, and turning around and punching the person on your other side. Like the childish game of "pass it on". Two wrongs don't make a right.
____________
Eccentric Opinion
|
|
|
|
This Popular Thread is pages long: 
