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| Thread: HOMM4 Expansion |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 · «PREV |
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Jinxer
Legendary Hero
*****
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posted October 03, 2002 06:43 PM |
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Edited By: Jinxer on 3 Oct 2002
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Clarification---
50% = partly agree
75% = agree almost completely but not entirely
100% = agree Completely!
150% = I really really really agree wholeheartedly! 
So there
Also hit & run is part of the game yet skilled players dont always use it just cause its there. But thats another story.
I am bound and determined to make a post that Pandora will agree with me on sooner or later
Jinxer
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Titan_888
Known Hero
Wind of Change
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posted October 03, 2002 07:11 PM |
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to jinxer..
you should not appology to me for what said.. as you stated it was meant to be kind of joke between you and me.. well first i didnt understood the joke  but i didnt take offend of it...
i just have tryed to much situations that is above that kind of insult.
am at work right now and i miss a damn good 2o2 (homm3) lol
i even miss the great 2o2 i had vs. andi + motor
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Re-Animator
Adventuring Hero
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posted October 03, 2002 08:59 PM |
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About pseudo-random maps and the editor
Just one small comment on chaining first. I like Hit-n-run. I liked Chaining. I liked lith-blocking. I liked being able to buy a level 1 warlock in HoMM1 to do an immediate Armageddon bomb. But the latter three are no longer options in the game and moaning about how much better things were in the good old days is tiresome.
One of the things I really like about the scripting system with the editor has to do with assigning treasures/artifacts to monsters. You can make it so that after you defeat a stack of creatures there is a random award or nothing. This can also be assigned based on the level of the hero conquering the stack. If you had an army led by a level 15 hero you may have a chance to find the Deadwood Staff whereas a level 5 hero would not have that option and may only get a Lucky Horseshoe.
Also, while towns may always have to be in the same place, the map can be made so that from game to game some towns are inaccessible, the pathways between the towns are different, and even have whole sections of the map be cut off with other sections open. With that last option imagine an Large map divided into four sections (two on top, two underground). You'd have different games with one being all four sections available, four three-section games, and twelve two-section games (ok I know I'm not going to take the time to make a map like that, but it's possible). Even if a player memorized the general layout of the map, s/he still wouldn't know which particular permutation was in effect. And if that weren't enough you could add timed events that randomly opened up new sections or pathways, destroyed teleporters, or even switched town allegiances.
I still like HoMM3, but the possibilities for HoMM4 are so much greater. I guess the best analogy I can think of is this: HoMM3 is Ferrari we've been driving for awhile. HoMM4 is an F/A-18 Hornet, but we haven't learned to fly yet so we're driving it around the runway wondering why we gave up the car.
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andiangelsla...
Disgraceful
Famous Hero
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posted October 03, 2002 09:14 PM |
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jinxer my post didnt refer to you, i just was reading rychentossers comment and there he wrote about that chaining thing. than that reminded me of many posts that were made longer ago where some "h4 fans" said "no chaining, woohoo, i dont suck at this game anymore like i did in h3", and "haha you you guys just dont like h4 coz you cant do all that stuff anymore that made you kings in h3".
it also reminded me of some guys that always complained about the maps, well happened that you are one of those
but i still didnt mean you personally.
and why im at it a lil comment about guys that think they mastered h3 and are now bored of it, and thats why they dont play it anymore: on tuff maps and on ok randoms you have to pay full attention most turns on what you doing, i often think after i moved hmm there was a better way to do that, damn, for example...h3 is all but its not simple after you think you "mastered" it, if you think that you dont play on the highest level anymore...
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Jinxer
Legendary Hero
*****
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posted October 03, 2002 09:41 PM |
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Edited By: Jinxer on 3 Oct 2002
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lol you are soo right Andi  I have been playing heroes 3 for 4 years now and I am still learning more and more about it everyday. I know I have not mastered the game. H3 still has alot of possibilities, but that is kinda been my point the map designs etc is what got boring not the game itself. Same strategy concepts etc.
And yes I always say same thing about could I have done that turn better or different, but I say that after almost every turn hehe. Especially when I hear my timer ticking down 10-9-8-7-6-5-4-3-2-1 and I still got 3 heroes to move lol.
I hear there are ALOT of great new features coming out in the WOG 3.57 patch, so I might be back to H3 sooner than I thought with some of WOGS fresh new ideas. Looking forward to it. Hopefully Andi you give New WOG patch a try and we can have a game soon.
Jinxer
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Thunder
Responsible
Famous Hero
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posted October 03, 2002 10:16 PM |
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I have some ideas for random map:
Ask from the player at start if he wants to set up came details himself or wants them to be random.
If the player wants to set the game details himself then ask if he wants to have underground and ask does (s)he want to play map that is of medium, large or extra-large size. Also, if there are more than one human player in the map give them a possibility to remove or customize number of computer opponents.
Basically, the map can be XL and there can be much more than one medium map slot in it. Maybe there can be few large map slots in it. That is maybe one of the most challenging parts when making a random map. On the other hand, it may be easier for map maker to make one medium, large and XL map than trying to combine them all into the same map. But then them all being in the same map has its advantages as well.
Then comes towns. XL map can have lots of 'em. Lets say that there are 20 or so towns all possible to gain in the beginning. If there are only two human players and no computer players then there could be more than hundred town combinations with only those two players. For every amount of players (from 2 to 6), there will be hell lot of combinations. Best of all is that it won't take much time from the map maker to script the towns like this (whether the map maker wants to add some more scripts to towns or not is an another question). Sounds impossible to memorize? Better is yet coming.
Then comes main paths. Paths to enemy towns can be randomized and any number of them can be open or blocked, from all to none. Map maker should understand that towns and paths should somehow be linked to each other, so that the map is not blocked. Paths can also include teleporters, dungeons and other means of transportation (like ships or shipyards). For 20 towns there could be lots of different paths to them, which is sort of impossible to calculate or reckon as it depends a lot on how the map maker wants them.
Then comes secondary paths. These paths could lead to treasure areas like extra dwellings, creature banks, power ups and resource piles. Like above, there can be any number of these paths but, unlike main paths, they don't need to be linked to towns or on any other matter unless the map maker wants (see balance).
Then comes lesser paths......
Then comes lesser than lesser paths.....
And so on.....
Random strength of neutral creatures is not necessary to add as the players can choose that in the beginning of map. However, if you want to have random strength of neutral creatures then you don't have to do more than four random creatures (or one), add creatures of the type random variable chooses and of random quantity. Unfortunately, there is no easy way to add creatures of the same type there was originally as there is no such action. But map maker can always make a script that checks what kind of creature the current stack has and then gives creatures of that type. Anyway, that requires lot of scripting and is not even necessary to make (like I said above), so why to bother? Not that it has its good sides as well.
Random strength of starting armies and heroes. This can also be random and totally unaffected by other random variables listed. Anyway each hero and army should have same events so that if Player Blue gets 10 Faerie Dragons because he is Nature then Player Orange should also gets 10 Angels because he is life. Same also includes starting Heroes, Resources and Artifacts unless map maker wants to balance those in the hard way (like giving Blue Player 10000 gold while giving to Green Player three Nightmares).
Random strenght of towns, in example what buildings are built and what creatures are given to garrison (this includes non player towns as well, in other words: grey colour).
Random number of adventure objects. This includes mines, treasure banks and other useful things.
Richness of the map. Map maker can bomb resource piles and other beneficial things, from all to none. Same can be done for starting resources the player possess.
Rare events. This could be situations like when the player starts with no towns and each town is blocked and there is only sizable starting army (hero) for each player, or all map objects are bombed making the map pretty blank. These rare events might almost never happen but when they will, it may be a nasty or brightening surprise for player.
Balancing the map gets harder and harder the more random effects you add to the map. But if the map is well designed from the start, there should be nothing too unbalancing left to the map once its finished.
More later (maybe).
Hehe, forget that "some" ideas for random map. I went beyond that limit.
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