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| Thread: 86wyp and his MMR |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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PhoenixReborn
Promising
Legendary Hero
Unicorn
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posted January 08, 2007 10:58 PM |
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From 86wyp
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When leveling up, the Academy players would put all skill points into two or three classes of magic,
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Using the magic, the Academy players can find the weakness of any enemy, and no race is able to defend all types of magic at the same time. In fact, the opposing players even didn¡¯t know what magic they would face in the battle field.
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Jhora has Phoenix, Resurrection, and Implosion
It sure seemed like MMR = three classes of magic but I guess it's more of a guideline than a set in stone strategy.
More to the point, why haven't any of the doubters, like Archmage_Faiz played against any of the several chinese posters that I've seen on the boards?
Elvin is at least using the strategy to determine it's viability.
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Bask in the light of my glorious shining unicorn.
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theluCas
Adventuring Hero
thiNk
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posted January 08, 2007 11:58 PM |
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: - ?
I tryed that strategy, it is possible. But i was not lvl 11 on 7th day, but only lvl 7. I like most hero nur.
This strategy is mmRUSH, it need many resources, so it is not very effective on every map.
The key of this strategy is to pick up good skills, get right level before attacking strong group of creatures and building economy.
I have respect for that chinesse player, he teach me something new and very good, most of replies on these sites are only trash.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted January 09, 2007 12:11 AM |
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Levels per week vary a lot according to map. But usually it's 5-10 in week 1, around 10+ week 2 and hopefully around 15+- in week 3. Of course you must have priorities in which areas you'll go and which neutrals are to be attacked first to maximize your efficiency.
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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Towerlord
Promising
Supreme Hero
Hero of Good, Slayer of Evil
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posted January 09, 2007 10:07 PM |
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let me tell you my two cents about this.
two days ago, i played a game on mystic vale in multi player, all random, and i got academy, dont know who exactly hero, but I found Jhora in tavern. my opponent also got academy, and he made galib his main hero. difficulty was hard, and i decided to try MMR, or something like that. i was smoothly lvl-uping, and my hero seemed better than my opponents, but on 2nd week, we reached each other. I had 105 gremlins, 15-20 gargoyles, 15 golems and 4 mages. and lvl 1,2 spells on myself, expert summoning and advanced destructive. My opponent took a more classic path probably, and he had a throng of master gremlins , lots of gargoyles and pack of golems, and i attacked thinking i'll close the gap between gremlin and master gremlins with raise dead . Also i needed some sulfurs nearby him to continue mage guilds.
obviously i was wrong , his throng of MG was 200(he got Havez) against my only 105, also 48 gargoyles and 18 golems, he also had was machines , with first aid tent ability, and i got crushed in this battle. i retreated and hoped that mage guilds will help me, but guess what i got : arcane armor, holy word, puppet masterm, firewall , antimagic, and frenzy.
if i had dark magic maybe i could have continued, but without it, i had to resign, there was no point in continuing.
i let you draw the conclusions out of this. mine were: this strategy is nice for creeping, has some strong points, but it is very risky. and also the key to its succes is getting a cutting lvl 4-5 spell : Conjure Phoenix , Armaggedon(gargs) and Meteor Shower come to mind!
also killing kaspar or deleb with it on mystic vale is just a dream, even with phoenix in the guild.
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Shauku83
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted January 09, 2007 10:34 PM |
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Your Expert Summoning and Advanced Destructive goes utterly wasted if you had just level 1-2 spells. I see you built Mages instead of Mage Guilds, so you really went wrong there.
I am just saying it feels wrong at first to play MMR, because it means no mages if you can't build Mage Guilds after that. Also I have nearly always upgraded Gremlins to Master Gremlins, they help you in creeping a lot. Saves spellpoints, which means more creeping and more experience.
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Elvin
Admirable
Omnipresent Hero
Endless Revival
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posted January 09, 2007 10:49 PM |
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Yeah, by end of week 2 a mage guild 3 or 4 is needed. And after guild 5 library asap to avoid crappy spell selection that may have been forces on you! To me what is most important is to get an icebolt or lightning bolt as you'll need them in conjunction with motw.
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H5 is still alive and kicking, join us in the Duel Map discord server!
Map also hosted on Moddb
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theluCas
Adventuring Hero
thiNk
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posted January 09, 2007 11:43 PM |
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So it looks like, u did mistake. U should write here, why do u think, opponent have won over u. And it is good to build sooner magic guild than picking skills. And master gremlin upgrade is a must for me, 50% + to initiative and they can repair golems, meet schield.
But sometimes is impossible to win with every fraction, luck is important.
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Towerlord
Promising
Supreme Hero
Hero of Good, Slayer of Evil
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posted January 10, 2007 10:18 AM |
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i know i made some mistakes, but we met at the beggining of week2 , there was no way i could have more than those spells equiped on myself. by the end of 2nd week i had lvl 5 mage guild with library, also genies and maybe even raska rani, but i got really crappy spells as i mentioned.
i dont understand though why you say mages are not good, they are a great troops , and they let you build the library.
anyway the point is : without a powerfull destructive spell, and without conjure phoenix, this strategy has few strong points. ressurection and raise dead are good spells, but you cannot defeat a more powerfull enemy in troops and with war machines and knightish skills(luck, att,def, leadership)just by ressurecting, because he went for building troops in the first place and will surely have more than you.
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Shauku83
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted January 10, 2007 12:20 PM |
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Yes, you were not ready to meet him after the first week. No one (in Academy) would have been. Warmachines + 200 MG:s, you would not had a change no matter what you did. If you could have postponed the conflict say 3-4 week, your odds would have been better. Besides, he had +30 Gargoyles compared to you, did you not have time to purchase them? Or did you skip them to get to the Mages?
And furthermore, you didn't even play MMR. That was the classical Academy play what you did. Dwellings 1-4 + Mage Guild 1 & 2. Did you play on Heroic? Another thing that usually favours MMR, because Creature Dwellings get much harder to get. Granted you had no time to play ANY strategy really, a week 2 fight? And it looks like you were cought unprepared, because of the Gargoyles.
The strategy sure is limited. It doesn't work TOO soon, it works best on hardest difficulties, Academy is a bad opponent thanks to Gargoyles and Golems, it works best on certain maps and with certain Heroes. So we are hardly looking at anything 100% sure, but it's the best Academy can do in a months time. On maps like Mystic Vale, that'll be as much as you will get.
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Towerlord
Promising
Supreme Hero
Hero of Good, Slayer of Evil
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posted January 10, 2007 12:45 PM |
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i wasnt expecting 200 MG , i was expecting 100+ like i had ... didnt know he got havez also, and i didnt expect warmachines. i didnt skip gargoyles , just lost many of them creeping. i had bigger mage guild in town , but i was very far away! and also there was nothing interesting in it@lvl 3 for summoning (earthquake) and no lvl 1-3 destructive, so no point in going there.
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TheDeath
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
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posted January 10, 2007 12:55 PM |
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By the way, why did you play a map with 4 players, and only 2 slots? You could have used the other towns for some income (even though I don't like this kind of play). Maybe your opponent got lucky and captured another "empty" Academy town.. just maybe
Anyway, I don't see a point in fighting on week 2.. you don't even get a chance to do "any" strategy that I know of (week 4 is much better). So of course you losed, he had the bigger numbers -- it's just you were too rushed. If it was you who attacked him, then you should've known he was Havez, and should've been so aggresive. Best to leave him 
But I didn't try this strategy so I am probably wrong somewhere...
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Towerlord
Promising
Supreme Hero
Hero of Good, Slayer of Evil
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posted January 10, 2007 01:02 PM |
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he was not hazev , he was galib , just that he told me after that he got havez in tavern. how could i have known that ? i has throng of gremlins, he had throng of MG's. i know it was a mistake attacking him, but it seemed the right thing to do at the time, because i was getting some extra sulfurs which were very needed .
oh and i dont say the strategy is bad or something, i gained plenty of resources and i was able to be very agressive on the map, and if i would have gotten phoenix , implosion , meteor shower or other things like that i probably would have had still chances to win the game.
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TheDeath
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
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posted January 10, 2007 01:42 PM |
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Edited by TheDeath at 13:57, 10 Jan 2007.
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Right-clicking on himself reveals his name 
EDIT: You can also look at the Tavern at "Best heroes"
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Towerlord
Promising
Supreme Hero
Hero of Good, Slayer of Evil
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posted January 11, 2007 08:44 PM |
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Right-clicking on himself reveals his name
EDIT: You can also look at the Tavern at "Best heroes"
Is this a joke ? What don't you understand ?
He has Galib as main, so Galib was shown at best heroes, and right click on Galib would have said Galib obvoiusly... Havez was one of his secondary heroes, which provided many troops and war machines for Galib, there is no way to find out his secondaries.
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theluCas
Adventuring Hero
thiNk
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posted January 11, 2007 08:55 PM |
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I played pensiluna, i think,i wrote that name right . I doubt, that MMR will work fine on pensiluna, coz mines are pretty far. Omg i need 86wyp to discuss about strategies.
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zuraffo
Tavern Dweller
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posted January 11, 2007 10:28 PM |
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I have been following this discussion with some interest.
From what I read in their forum, MMR is a transitional tactics that was mainly used for rush. The Academy players on the board had developed other tactics based on different hero choice. For example, there were one instance during one of their game where a Havez player went for attack instead, and made his gremlin into absolute monster (necklace of claw, battler fury, miniartifacts, I dun think he got range).
That said, MMR remained a staple strategy for most Academy due to the high knowledge and MotW which basically double the effects of spells. MMR allows the players to creep like mad, with relatively little loss and ease, thus the whole concept revolve around having a higher level hero than your opponent before week 5~6 and seriously cripple the opponent before going into late game.
With regards to the choice of magic schools, the general concensus seemed to lean towards summon, destruction, (light or dark) for early game finale, and summon, dark, light for late game. Four magic schools are seldom encouraged but it has been done. For late game, suppress light/dark is also important (v.s. Heaven go for suppress light and light magic, v.s. hell and necro go for suppress dark and dark magic).
Last note to Towerlord: You were just unlucky with your Academy game. 1. with Jhora it's natural to go MMR. 2. Galib was THE anti-magic Academy hero. 3. Your opponent got Havez, which can seriously tilt the game towards him, especially in early game (the extra gremlins and warmachine really matter in these first 2 weeks). Actually I am surprise your opponent didn't develop Havez as a main hero (He was rated at one of the top 3 heros along with Jhora and Nur). But then again, against another Academy, Galib and his magic mirror probably was more useful, not withstanding the starting magic resistance trait. If you want, I can ask how they would have handled the situation on the board.
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ZombieLord
Promising
Famous Hero
that wants your brainz...
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posted January 14, 2007 02:30 PM |
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Well I tried this strategy too (with Jhora), and all I can say is that the Phoenix is UNSTOPPABLE in the early game (week 3) man!
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Right-clicking on himself reveals his name
EDIT: You can also look at the Tavern at "Best heroes"
Is this a joke ? What don't you understand ?
He has Galib as main, so Galib was shown at best heroes, and right click on Galib would have said Galib obvoiusly... Havez was one of his secondary heroes, which provided many troops and war machines for Galib, there is no way to find out his secondaries.
maybe theDeath thought he would take Havez, because he has those War Machines (with the skills)
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted January 14, 2007 04:18 PM |
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Well I tried this strategy too (with Jhora), and all I can say is that the Phoenix is UNSTOPPABLE in the early game (week 3) man!
Hello, harm touch. Hello, vorpal sword ^_^
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ZombieLord
Promising
Famous Hero
that wants your brainz...
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posted January 14, 2007 04:20 PM |
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Hello, harm touch. Hello, vorpal sword ^_^
In week 3? I doubt you can upgrade them so fast.
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted January 14, 2007 06:38 PM |
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Pit lords? No problem.
Looks worse for necro, but still, there are counters. Like, say, cold death ability. If only it gave you icebolt spell, that is.. >_>
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