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| Thread: Crossbowmen..overpowered? |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 · «PREV |
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phoenixreborn
Promising
Legendary Hero
Unicorn
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posted December 27, 2008 06:01 PM |
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Don't listen to him. Someone with a certain creature as his avatar must be biased!
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted December 27, 2008 06:52 PM |
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nerf this nerf that
my sig tells everything about nerfing 
Anyway, isn't going marksmen still the fastest and most reliable way for haven to get a fast utopia?
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We reached to the stars and everything is now ours
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Asheera
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Elite Assassin
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posted December 27, 2008 07:31 PM |
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Quote:
nerf this nerf that
my sig tells everything about nerfing
With such mentality, of course the Arcane Archer did not get nerfed after the patch 
Noobs cry "nerf" when they lose one time, of course that's silly and I agree, but it's different than what I do analyzing the creatures in detail and see which one is overpowered, which one is underpowered and which one is fine.
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adon
Known Hero
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posted December 27, 2008 07:33 PM |
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Imbalanced alternatives are wrong, either improve the weaker alternative in some way or nerf the sronger alternative so that using one over the other is a situational call. If one alternative is always picked because its better in every situation (or all but one very unlikely scenario) then an adjustment needs to be made. Its painfully simple in theory. Of course in practice its a nightmare to make adjustments like this given all the variables in the game.
Marksmen v Crossbowmen actually isn't as bad I think as Arcanes v Master Hunters or Horned Grunts v Overs...I would just say that precise shot needs to be increased by one tile. Low initiative tends to mean that some enemy will be close by to the marksmen by the time they get to go. And precise shot is brutal on high def creatures. Crossbowmen are great in creeping. Their special becomes useless if you get the bow. I don't know..it seems not so bad to me.
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Clay_Man
Known Hero
TOH gamer
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posted December 27, 2008 07:37 PM |
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With their 8 init, xbowmen aren't overpowered. Haven still needs warmachines for creeping. And on most maps you won't have the time to chain back Xbowmen to clear the utopia.
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darknes
Tavern Dweller
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posted December 31, 2008 08:13 PM |
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owerpovered  no.int 8 and so much ore they jeoperdize other structures in city.
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted December 31, 2008 08:38 PM |
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Quote:
Noobs cry "nerf" when they lose one time, of course that's silly and I agree, but it's different than what I do analyzing the creatures in detail and see which one is overpowered, which one is underpowered and which one is fine.
AAs are special cause. They are not overpowered.. they are broken At least compared to their alternative and other level three creatures.
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We reached to the stars and everything is now ours
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nickkkk
Known Hero
Necro fan since 1988
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posted January 02, 2009 11:52 AM |
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I don't know who would ever chose the marksman instead of the crossbows. Very big difference between the 2
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Vampire Lord (Dracula)
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tann_141
Known Hero
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posted January 02, 2009 08:36 PM |
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i think the game in general is pretty balanced.. but they should do something about certain units.. to make the choice between upgrades harder
AA will always be chosen over MH and crossbowmen will be chosen 90% of the time over marksmen... also.. whats up with firehounds and cerebrus.. theyre basically the same only firehounds have 3 headed breathe attack.. so theyre the obvious choice!
i think there needs to be better selection.. like the golems in academy or the dungeon tier 6 upgrades
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Asheera
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Elite Assassin
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posted January 02, 2009 09:23 PM |
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Edited by Asheera at 21:24, 02 Jan 2009.
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Firehounds have 1 less damage (which means they deal only 80% of Cerberus' damage), but they have Firebreath + 1 more defense... Firehounds are clearly a lot better, at least IMO
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InfernoX880
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted January 04, 2009 08:29 PM |
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Crossbowmen are a semi-absolute necessity for the Haven. I include the word "semi" because despite everything there is no denying that Haven can still manage without them.
I didn't get a chance to read all the posts in this thread but looking at the initial, I'm pretty sure that the Crossbowmen have a damage range of 2-8, not 4-16. Just wanted to point that out before I continue.
The Crossbowmen provide a much needed unit for the Haven faction, especially with the incorporation of all the alternate upgrades. The simple fact is that with new upgrades at low tiers like the Firehounds, Stalkers, White Bear Riders, and the rage benefiting Centaurs, Haven would be at the mercy of many other factions without a new powerful early game unit, considering that Haven's other early game units are: Peasants (weakest of them all), Archers and Marksman (helpful, but not nearly enough) and Knights and Vindicators, whom you will probably seldom use in the early game on higher difficulties for favor of the Griffins and of course, the unit being currently discussed.
Crossbowmen do allow Haven something they couldn't too effectively do before, and that's creeping. In fact, they truly are an early game unit. If they were weaker, then those of us who like to play on Heroic difficulty (no not me, but quite a few of you guys I can imagine) would have a difficult time getting the Wood and Ore pits, much less everything else. It seems that at this point, every faction has an effective early game, some more effective than others, and without Crossbowmen, Haven would have terrible issues.
But early game was a given, of course someone who uses Crossbowmen in the early game wouldn't want them degraded. But what of the late game? Frankly, I prefer Marksmen for a few simple reasons. Firstly, the enemy in the late game is likely to be in one of two scenarios:
1) He has units that can cover all or most of the battle field instantly. Chances are he'll put himself in the range of your Marksmen early on making them equally effective as Crossbowmen or he will fall for your box-method style of defending your Marksmen in which case Precise Shot takes effect.
2) You are in a siege, in which case the range penalty applies to the Crossbowmen anyway.
Thus ultimately, the two units are equally effective. The above mentioned scenario is justification that Crossbowmen aren't necessarily the best pick, and if they aren't a better choice that the not overpowered Marksmen, then logically they themselves are not overpowered.
As a final note, I will admit however, that seeing Crossbowmen in an enemy's ranks or guarding a resource generator always makes me hesitate...as a human its easier for me to just scratch the range of the Marksman and easily avoid the Precise Shot, though frankly the AI is seldom as a brilliant as a 7 year old...thank God computers can't learn from their mistakes...yet.
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