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evilcherry
Hired Hero
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posted November 09, 2021 03:37 PM |
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NimoStar said:
firespirit said:
NimoStar said:
Eagle eye for example is always useless, basically, since it is random not even mapmakers can depend on it.
A map can be built around it.. If you're interested, try the Eternal Love campaign.
Could be, but still the randomness means you are depending on something else for it to work. Unless the hero has Expert Eagle and all artifacts (does that give 100%? Or just 90%?)
OR you just setup a fight with infinite resurrection and throw spell points at your enemy's face with your hands until finally they cast their whole spellbook enough times for you to learn it all ! Hahahaha !
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Opera
Adventuring Hero
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posted November 09, 2021 04:11 PM |
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I only want Factory for new year
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Ghost
Undefeatable Hero
Therefore I am
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posted November 09, 2021 05:01 PM |
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Hah Devil. I only wait for complete HotA. Because I'm a mapmaker.
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Fight MWMs - stand teach
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NimoStar
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
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posted November 09, 2021 05:32 PM |
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Quote:
Regarding the Pyramids, I always put level 18 Quest Guards in front of them to ensure all (most) heroes have Expert Wisdom at that point, so it is'nt wasted.
Well, that isn't in random maps and also generates limitations for low level heroes with expert wisdom. Haven't you thought about ... just putting Expert Wisdom quest guards? 
Might heroes, specially controlled by AI, are unlikely to have Expert Wisdom at any level.
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Never changing = never improving
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Phoenix4ever
Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
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posted November 09, 2021 05:45 PM |
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NimoStar said:
Well, that isn't in random maps and also generates limitations for low level heroes with expert wisdom. Haven't you thought about ... just putting Expert Wisdom quest guards?
Is that even possible?, I could'nt find an option anywhere.
The Pyramids themselves could also be changed, so it is only possible to visit IF you have Expert Wisdom.
Yeah the AI is a fool for forgetting to take Wisdom, but taking several magic schools sometimes...
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Hourglass
Supreme Hero
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posted November 10, 2021 08:19 AM |
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NimoStar said:
Only thing I wish about Scholar is that it could transmit elevel 5 spells, thus becoming the only way to teaching spells found in Pyramids.
Otherwise it is a little pointless (meaning it only saves some movement)
Regardless of the way the game is being played, movement points are on of the most precious resources in the game. So any skill, ability or such giving or saving the points already has pretty good value.
Scholar can also be completely invaluable in some situations: Say, you don't have any access to a certain level one spell, such as Slow or Haste on your starting area or such but you would like to progress. Luckily, there are heroes that do start with such spell, so Scholar can be used to "deliver" the spell to your main hero.
Likewise, when all your heroes on the map are participating to the fights, Scholar can add immense flexibility to their arsenal, as those heroes are not just relying on the spells they did start with or happen to find, but have access to most of the level one (or two) spells.
I would certainly support adding a hero with Scholar specialty to the game that could learn and teach level 5 spells, but it's likely that such specialty wouldn't matter all that much, and the best part of that hero would the fact that he would start with Basic Scholar.
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NimoStar
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
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posted November 11, 2021 12:27 AM |
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Edited by NimoStar at 02:04, 11 Nov 2021.
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Quote:
Regardless of the way the game is being played, movement points are on of the most precious resources in the game. So any skill, ability or such giving or saving the points already has pretty good value.
There are countless of utilities from visiting towns, not only learning spells.
Recruiting, replenishing spell points, learning special bonuses, morale and luck (castle and rampart), stables, artifact merchants, skeleton transformer, war machines, mana vortex...
Something that may save you *one* of the reasons for visiting the town isn't usually that valuable, as you probably need to visit it for other reasons.
Quote:
Scholar can also be completely invaluable in some situations: Say, you don't have any access to a certain level one spell, such as Slow or Haste on your starting area or such but you would like to progress. Luckily, there are heroes that do start with such spell, so Scholar can be used to "deliver" the spell to your main hero.
If the point is "starting area" you can't choose which hero to recruit; this also implies two special heroes, one with scholar and another with the needed spell. The probabilities for this are abysmal.
______________________
Another thing that could be done with Scholar is to make it learn and teach the content of Scrolls. (https://heroes.thelazy.net/index.php/Spell_scroll)
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Never changing = never improving
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Ghost
Undefeatable Hero
Therefore I am
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posted November 11, 2021 12:55 AM |
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No only save movement but also resources.
@Hourglass
First played and tried different things.. Then you can tell us found your strategies.. I recommend.. Then easier to make solutions to discuss.. We need a evolution for Heroes..
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Fight MWMs - stand teach
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LouWeed
Adventuring Hero
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posted November 11, 2021 04:08 AM |
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NimoStar said:
this also implies two special heroes, one with scholar and another with the needed spell. The probabilities for this are abysmal.
Often it's just one hero - e.g Alamar. And then you have to send him on a mission to level up scholar ASAP so you can learn that sweet sweet spell
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Hourglass
Supreme Hero
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posted November 11, 2021 08:43 PM |
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NimoStar said:
There are countless of utilities from visiting towns, not only learning spells.
Something that may save you *one* of the reasons for visiting the town isn't usually that valuable, as you probably need to visit it for other reasons.
Well, if the the sole benefit would be to save our main hero only from not visiting the town for couple of days, then obviously Scholar wouldn't be very valuable. Fortunately, this isn't the case.
Firstly, it is very unlikely that the player can hit super solid mage guild that does have the all the important level one spells. You can spell research, but that takes resources we would rather not lose, it isn't guaranteed and it's really only good mechanic for searching one thing at a time. That's why more searching needs to be done on the map, and there's no reason for the main to visit every possible shrine of magic you see on screen, as the secondary heroes can check the objects as well. If the sole Shrine of slow is in the far corner of the area, a whole day away from the nearest route, we're most definitely trying to avoid such trip if possible.
Secondly, the secondary heroes should also avoid of visiting the town if they're not needed there. We also want them to do fights, as it saves time. Therefore, they could really use the some spells as well, and the Scholar can help them with their tasks and they're not just relying on things they happen to start with.
Thirdly, Scholar is the only way of teaching the starting spells to other heroes. While connecting a hero with Scholar and a hero with specific spell such as Haste or Slow could sound like relative low chances of happening, it happens more likely than one would think. To put it in context, normal MP gamer has likely cycled thorough around 15 heroes after at the end of the first week.
Finally, picking up a Scholar hero offers one way of starting the game. Tower for example doesn't have many good starting hero options, so you can try Iona or Thane, cycle thorough bunch of new heroes, and end up with very solid spell book. Necro's Septienna and her Death Ripple for every hero also offers really fun way of starting the map.
In the end, Scholar is a fine skill. You only need one in your hero roster, there's no need have a second one of such skill, but this is a trend among the support skills anyway.
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Ghost
Undefeatable Hero
Therefore I am
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posted November 11, 2021 08:50 PM |
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Good. We can building evolution. Fills a gap in knowledge and experience. 
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Fight MWMs - stand teach
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted November 14, 2021 07:10 PM |
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Any news guys? I am starting to miss HotA, sigh.
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Gandalf196
Disgraceful
Supreme Hero
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posted November 14, 2021 07:38 PM |
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Doomforge said:
Any news guys? I am starting to miss HotA, sigh.
I feel you, dude. But, well, I've come to terms with the idea that we might have just lived the golden age of HOMM III modding. The HotA community has built the Sistine Chapel for us and here we are wondering whether Michelangelo is coming back any time soon...
Maybe, someday, I don't know, someone like Markus Persson can help funding the revival this series deservers (as he did with Age of Wonders III, which is a snowing great game by any metric we use).
Tell you what, I'm 29 by now, should I become a millionaire someday, I'll do it myself.
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NimoStar
Responsible
Legendary Hero
Modding the Unmoddable
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posted November 14, 2021 08:58 PM |
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The "spell research" mechanic , besides disagreeing with it as Phoenix says, also makes Scholar less valuable as a base by itself.
That is also a reason why Scholar should get a buff in HotA. It was already a very circumstantial skill you don't want in your main hero at all (since it doesn't help directly, much like Estates), but now it's also worse as support as exchanging spells and bringing them (for example, from Magic Shrines) isn't so key when you can just research it at your town...
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Never changing = never improving
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Phoenix4ever
Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
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posted November 14, 2021 11:39 PM |
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Well I guess Spell Research was a cool idea, but in practice it just buffs Tower and nerfs Stronghold and Fortress. It also makes shrines, pyramids, Scholar, Eagle Eye and even the tomes and Spellbinder's Hat much less valuable, because you can just get whatever you want from Spell Research.
So it seems like it just makes the game easier and more predictable, because everyone wants to see Slow, TP, Resurrection and DD in their Mage Guild.
Spell Research could perhaps be good in certain situations, like Stronghold VS Fortress or Castle VS Cove, but good luck winning as Stronghold if you are facing Tower... Of course it also depends on resources, but on long and rich maps Tower will have a huge advantage.
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gatecrasher
Famous Hero
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posted November 15, 2021 03:00 PM |
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What games do you play where there's enough time and resources to spell-research at the willy-nilly?
"Eagle Eye... less valuable" lol - must be a negative value then.
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Hourglass
Supreme Hero
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posted November 15, 2021 04:05 PM |
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Phoenix4ever said:
Well I guess Spell Research was a cool idea, but in practice it just buffs Tower and nerfs Stronghold and Fortress.
Not sure why would you see it as a buff for Tower? In SoD where there are no researching, one the good things going for Tower is the fact that only they have increased chances of getting a spell that the player desires. In Hota there's the research, so any town is capable of making their Mage guild more flexible. While Tower can obviously perform the research as well, overall they basically lose the ability only they once had. So, overall it's probably closer to nerf I would say. Not that it plays a huge role in terms of balance, thou.
Phoenix4ever said:
It also makes shrines, pyramids, Scholar, Eagle Eye and even the tomes and Spellbinder's Hat much less valuable, because you can just get whatever you want from Spell Research.
Well, not in practice. In short, the other things you listed end up being far more faster and convenient than the clunky and somewhat expensive researching.
Phoenix4ever said:
Spell Research could perhaps be good in certain situations, like Stronghold VS Fortress or Castle VS Cove, but good luck winning as Stronghold if you are facing Tower... Of course it also depends on resources, but on long and rich maps Tower will have a huge advantage.
I think I never fully understood the logic of seeing the lack of level 5 mage guild as a huge drawback. Sure, we would like to have as high level guild as possible, but it's not like that we couldn't build the structure somewhere else on the map. Mage Guilds are all built the same way - they have exact same building costs, they never require Fort and you can always built the next level after the other. Therefore, there isn't really a reason why you couldn't built it on other town with high level guild, as it's actually beneficial - you can build mage guild on other other town and do something else on your main.
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Phoenix4ever
Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
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posted November 15, 2021 05:35 PM |
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Like everything else in Heroes, it depends on other stuff, but Tower can pretty much get all the spells they want with Spell Research, Stronghold or Fortress can't do that.
@gatecrasher
Yeah who would have thought there was a way to actually make Eagle Eye even worse.
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Ghost
Undefeatable Hero
Therefore I am
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posted November 15, 2021 05:45 PM |
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I invented spell research I wrote a thing in the random thoughts in about 5-10 years ago. We save all deleted threads in a storage. I hoped they make it. But I played and I don't like a spell research, so I give a dislike here now.
Yes suck Eagle Eye must be improved..
____________
Fight MWMs - stand teach
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted November 23, 2021 06:37 PM |
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Surprised nobody posted this yet... This is google translated, I don't know Russian:
I guess 2023 seems reasonable 
Sorry guys, no Hota for now
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This Super Thread is pages long: 
