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| Thread: Battlefield Avatars | |
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Sir_Cae
Tavern Dweller
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posted February 10, 2004 02:28 AM |
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Avatars...(Ideas anyone?)
I don't know if this was fixed with the HOMM4 expansion or any of the patches, but can we PLEASE see some better battle field Avatars? I was most disappointed when I gave my hero a two handed sword and he/she looked the same. And it was the same with a sling and longbow that was represented by a crossbow. I love the fact you can use your hero as a creature. Maybe we could add creatures to ride? Like say, have a riding skill and then get different creatures to ride depending on that castle you're from. Soemthing to that effect. (Dragons, Griffons, Horses, Dragon Golems, Wolves, things like that.)
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Dingo
Responsible
Legendary Hero
God of Dark SPAM
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posted February 10, 2004 03:13 AM |
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I like the idea, its a very good idea.
But I don't want heroes on the battlefield in H5.
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The Above Post/Thread/Idea Is CopyRighted by, The Dingo Corp.
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Asmodean
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Heroine at the weekend.
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posted February 10, 2004 11:22 PM |
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Ya boo sucks to you two guys! Heroes on the battlefield are cool, discuss it in a different thread. I think the suggestion is a good one, then it only matters IF the heroes are on the battlefield, otherwise the hero's just a plonker on the sidelines that doesn't need to look any different no matter what weapons they carry.
So If riding were a primary skill then what kind of creature would each class of hero ride, or does that change as the skill is advanced, and then the hero gets to ride a flying beast -like dragon/wyvern?
What are the secondary skills? Should the hero get the charge ability? That would mean having a bigger sprite, would that make battles too awkward when your hero might have to come from the back lines to the front to attack, or are Ubi going to add more attack formations than the usual clumped/not clumped ones.
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To err is human, to arr is pirate.
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Sir_Cae
Tavern Dweller
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posted February 11, 2004 12:15 AM |
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Oh oh oh! What if they could somehow put it as an option to have your Hero on the battle field or not? Wouldn't that be interesting?
Exactly, as your hero grows in a riding skill or aimal taming skill, he/she gets a stronger creature. Yeah, charge ability, maybe Trample or Crush damage. As for space on the battle field...why not give better battlefield formations as they Hero's Tactics sill grows? That way you have better formations with a reasonable explaination.
Thoughts?
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gerdash
Responsible
Famous Hero
from the Animated Peace
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posted February 14, 2004 10:07 AM |
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let's see.. you have 3 hero types, 3 weapon types (bow, sling, crossbow), 3 types of horses (donkey, nightmare, wyvern), with shield and without. let's not take into accout other types of eqipment, because i guess they would not need different animations.
so, how many different animations would you need to make for this option to be available? or if it isn't an option, then how many animations would you need to make people happy because crossbow and sling don't look the same?
looks like the number is 3*3*3*2=18.
and now that we have some skill in this type of calculations, wouldn't it be nice to list all the equipment and mounts that should look different, and hero types that should look different?
2 hero types for each town? 7 towns? i.e. total 14 hero types only?
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anirvans
Tavern Dweller
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posted February 17, 2004 09:50 AM |
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Quote:
and now that we have some skill in this type of calculations, wouldn't it be nice to list all the equipment and mounts that should look different, and hero types that should look different?
2 hero types for each town? 7 towns? i.e. total 14 hero types only?
Let us really do this calculation - 7 towns, 2 hero types for each, with or without a bow: 7*2*2
Now let us add the sword and shield. The possible cases are:
Neither sword nor shield
One handed sword only
One handed shield only
Sword and shield
Two handed sword
(I am assuming 'sword' to represent any type of melee weapon. )
This means there will be 7*2*2*5 = 140 animations.
To put this into perspective, let us just look at the creature animations for creatures in the towns. 7 towns, each town has 8 creatures in town, and each creature can be aligned in 8 different directions while attacking. This makes 7*4*2*8 = 448 animations.
If you add the neutral creatures, it totals to at least 1000 animations. If Ubisoft can do 1000 animations for the battle screen, they may as well do another 150 for the heroes. (I have used the H4 modelf or calculations and so have left out the mounts of the heroes)
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gerdash
Responsible
Famous Hero
from the Animated Peace
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posted February 17, 2004 05:32 PM |
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axe? two-handed axe? halberd? throwing spear? club? war hammer?
one-handed club, axe and war hammer could be done with the same animation, and the two-handed ones with another, just the weapon would have to be replaced, so those additional weapons would count as the sword you mentioned.
our difference of opinions is that different directions for animations does not count imho, because it's not that difficult to do with 3d. and if they do count, then heroes should also have different directions of animations, which would make the number of animations redundant. actually what i mean by animation is the way the hero moves when swinging the weapon, shooting a missile or blocking with shield, and those should be the same in every direction.
so each creature has 1 attack animation and there will be 7*8=56 creature attack animations.
Quote:
7 towns, each town has 8 creatures in town, and each creature can be aligned in 8 different directions while attacking. This makes 7*4*2*8 = 448 animations.
where did you get those 4 and 2 from?
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anirvans
Tavern Dweller
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posted February 17, 2004 09:46 PM |
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Quote:
our difference of opinions is that different directions for animations does not count imho, because it's not that difficult to do with 3d. and if they do count, then heroes should also have different directions of animations, which would make the number of animations redundant.
I see your point. The directions do not count.
Quote:
where did you get those 4 and 2 from?
I had got the 4 and 2 from the four levels and 2 creatures in each level. And I had considered the 8 directions.
Anyway, the bigger point that I was trying to make is that the graphics guys anyway have to make loads of animations. It wont cost that much more to add a few hero animations. And anyway graphic designers are cheaper to hire than developers. So it will cost a hell lot more to just test the code than to design a few hundred animations.
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gerdash
Responsible
Famous Hero
from the Animated Peace
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posted February 18, 2004 11:57 AM |
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Quote:
I had got the 4 and 2 from the four levels and 2 creatures in each level. And I had considered the 8 directions.
i see.. i considered 8 creatures per town. my calculator shows -- that's the same as 4*2.
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So it will cost a hell lot more to just test the code than to design a few hundred animations.
i guess you are right in this case, even routine testing of simple programs costs something. most of the design of the game looks relatively simple though, and getting good-looking animations isn't always that easy, but the adventure map ai may be really tough to do.
what i am trying to say is -- what's the effort and what's the gain? personally, i have never felt it is disturbing that hero equipped with bow and hero equipped with crossbow look the same.
if it was some rpg where you focus on your one character, such eye-candy might be more worth considering imho.
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anirvans
Tavern Dweller
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posted February 19, 2004 08:33 AM |
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Quote:
what i am trying to say is -- what's the effort and what's the gain? personally, i have never felt it is disturbing that hero equipped with bow and hero equipped with crossbow look the same.
I am not saying that having the hero look same is disturbing. But, having nice graphics of heroes will add to the experience. In Heroes 4, they already have different graphics for an archer, a barbarian, a spell caster, etc. Doesnt it look better to have 4 heroes looking different than having all of them look the same. And it is also helpful in the game - you dont accidentally make Dogwaggle waste his turn casting a heal on himself in TGS campaigns when it will be far better to have him use his turn attacking and instead maybe Bohb cast the heal instead.
I agree that this is a very minor improvement. But these minor bits make a game more interesting. You dont always notice these little bits - but they keep adding to your experience.
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rampartdruid
Hired Hero
protector of all that is green
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posted February 24, 2004 07:58 PM |
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i don't think they should change anything with the damage system. it was perfect in heroes 3, and should remain the same if and when heroes 5 is made. but, just like in Heroes 4 when you could turn creature mobilization off, you should be able to choose if you're hero can go on to the battlefield, although i would'nt want them to, but.... that's my opinion.....
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eisenor
Tavern Dweller
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posted March 01, 2004 10:30 PM |
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More animations for heroes - a wasted effort
Animations aren't where Ubisoft needs to concentrate to make Heroes V better IMO. The AI needs MAJOR overhaul. Given the usual constraints on developers/animators, I believe the time is better spent making the AI at least a challenging opponent.
You know there is a major problem with your AI, when it just sits inside the castle while you pick off all of it's ranged attackers at your leisure JUST because you haven't "knocked on their door" yet!!!
With enough ranged attackers you can defeat nearly ANY castle that the AI is defending. How sad.
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Asmodean
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Heroine at the weekend.
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posted March 03, 2004 03:07 AM |
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But the graphics department and AI departments are two totally separate parts of the game development.
I don't think you'll find anyone that disagrees with you that the AI sucked big time in H4. But it was a big let-down when you had all these advanced hero classes that looked exactly the same as the base classes, and how every hero looked human when they were SO not!
The graphics could be done easily in the time it takes to write and test and debug a viable AI program.
Moderator's note:This topic has been closed, as it refers to an older version of the game. To discuss Heroes 3, please go to Library Of Enlightenment, to discuss Heroes 4, please go to War Room Of Axeoth, to discuss Heroes 5, go to Temple Of Ashan.
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To err is human, to arr is pirate.
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