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| Thread: Primary skill analysis: Combat | |
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Djive
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Zapper of Toads
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posted October 15, 2001 06:31 PM |
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Primary skill analysis: Combat
So time for the analysis on combat.
Combat family of skills: Combat, Toughness, Archery, Magic Resistance.
This skill affects only the hero, and turns him/her into a killing machine which cannot be hurt by magical means.
Combat: Gives close-combat abilities to hero, and enhances damage dealt.
Grand master: 200% damage, first strike ability and strike twice ability.
Toughness: increases hit-points of Hero.
Grand master: 225% increase.
Archery: Allows you to shoot.
Basic: Ability to shoot.
Advanced-Master: Removing one penalty/Giving double shot bonus.
Grand master: Maximum damage at any range, no castle wall penalty, double shoot, no close-combat penalty.
Magic resistance: Gives hero a chance to resist spells.
Master: 70%
Grand master: 100%
Will Resistance work only for hostile damaging spells or will it apply to your own spells too? Depending on this its usefulness may be bigger or smaller.
Magic based heroes will probably prefer relying on their spells instead of the Combat and Archery skills, so this skill seems to be of less importance to magic heroes. Toughness and Resistance may still be very useful also to the magic Hero. Toughness increasing the amount of rounds they can be expected to survive, and Resistance making them immune to the effects of battle-field spells as well as magical attacks from enemy heroes/creatures.
This skill appears to be a must for Might based heroes.
The conclusion: A skill that greatly increases the survival likelyhood of the hero, without aiding creature stacks on your own side in combat. An idea would be to mix this with the Scouting skill and the Stealth ability to give the opponent unwelcome surprises, being attacked by a one-(wo)man army.
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"A brilliant light can either illuminate or blind. How will you know which until you open your eyes?"
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Preserver
Promising
Famous Hero
Elemental Druid
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posted October 15, 2001 09:54 PM |
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Nice information Djive. I probably read it somewhere else before, but you are really good making it easy to read and understand. About the resistance, I'm 100% sure it will only affect hostile spells (like in HoMM3). This is what makes resistance unique compared to immunity.
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- The only alert the invaders had was the rustling of leaves on a day without wind -
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StormWarning
Promising
Famous Hero
Archmage of Thunder
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posted October 15, 2001 10:05 PM |
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That HP increase for toughness seems ridiculously high. I know that's what was said in Wyvern's preview a while back, but maybe it will increase to 225% instead of by that much. (Let's face it, triple hit points from one skill is insane.  ) That would make more sense, since then each step (if they are equal) is +25% instead of +45%. And it's really easy to mis-translate short words in some languages (not doubting your skill, Wyvern , but I know at least in Spanish the word "en" can mean at least 3 different things), and the preview was from a Bulgarian magazine.
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The calm before the storm is about to end.
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Djive
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Zapper of Toads
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posted October 15, 2001 11:37 PM |
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Preserver: I was mostly wondering whether it will protect against hostile spells you cast yourself, type Armageddon.
The resistance could work in two ways:
1. Reduce damage/effect by a percentage.
2. Resist the spell altogether with a certain likelihood.
Heroes 3 used approach 2 för the magic Resistance skill, but the approaches can be mixed. Golems for instance used approach 1.
Quote:
That HP increase for toughness seems ridiculously high.
Sure. But look at damage dealt by the Combat skill... 200% damage and double strike. Adding the effects together you multiply the damage by 4, and the skill gives First Strike too. Taking that into the equation I don't think Toughness is overpowered at 225% increase, which corresponds to a factor of 3.25.
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"A brilliant light can either illuminate or blind. How will you know which until you open your eyes?"
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Preserver
Promising
Famous Hero
Elemental Druid
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posted October 15, 2001 11:58 PM |
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Quote:
I was mostly wondering whether it will protect against hostile spells you cast yourself, type Armageddon.
I would say yes... It should be same princip when your opponent is casting a mass-hostile spell in HoMM3. Then some of your creatures would resist and take no damage, while others would be totally damaged. So resistance works against all hostile spells...
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- The only alert the invaders had was the rustling of leaves on a day without wind -
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niteshade
Known Hero
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posted October 16, 2001 07:00 AM |
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+225% hit points doesnt seem unreasonable at all. Remember this skill only effects your hero, and your hero will tend to be overmatched in combat by enemy stacks. So it had better have a major benefit.
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StormWarning
Promising
Famous Hero
Archmage of Thunder
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posted October 16, 2001 10:06 PM |
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You may be right about that, but it still seems crazy. 
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The calm before the storm is about to end.
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niteshade
Known Hero
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posted October 16, 2001 10:34 PM |
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Well think about it. The grandmaster defence essentialy doubles the hit points of your entire side. So if your going to have a skill that only effects the hit points of a single unit, it had better give a whole lot more then just double.
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Zune
Adventuring Hero
of Tatalia
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posted October 17, 2001 12:48 PM |
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+225% doesn't seem crazy to me. Remember, now that the hero can fight, it also means he/she is more exposed to attacks. To lose a strong hero is supposed to be a serious disadvantage, so it shouldn't be too easy to kill a hero.
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You can have as many hit points as you care,
you're dead when facing the Mighty Stare!
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StormWarning
Promising
Famous Hero
Archmage of Thunder
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posted October 17, 2001 10:05 PM |
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Yeah, I suppose you're right. After all, since a hero is only a "stack of one" it has to be ridiculously powerful.
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The calm before the storm is about to end.
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Djive
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Zapper of Toads
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posted February 11, 2002 10:50 PM |
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A few things has happened to Combat... The Toughness skill is replaced by Melee, and the bonus for Toughness is moved to Combat, while the benefits of combat is moved from Combat to Melee.
The values are taking from Pyromancer's thrad, and going by them high level heroes have become much more resilient to creature attacks than before.
The first stike bonus seems to have been removed, or perhaps it was never there to begin with, or perhaps it has been missed.
Defence and attack ratings have returned in Heroes 4, working a bit differently than in heroes 3.
Now, the damage you do is Base damage * (Attack rating/Defence rating)
However, if this information from Gus on Angelspit's forum is correct, then I wonder what's the deal about "Not reducing enemy defence below 10". Perhaps, they're playtesting different variants.
The introduction was made to allow Heroes to do more damage to creatures, while not increasing the damage versus other heroes. So the improvements for Melee and Archery only applies to creature stacks.
Prerequisites for the skills:
No requirments for the Combat skill.
For advanced Archery, Melee and Magic Resistance -- Basic Combat
For master Archery, Melee and Magic Resistance -- Advanced Combat
For grand master Archery, Melee and Magic Resistance -- Expert Combat
NOTE: The above is a very free developement when compared to the Magic skills.
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Basic Combat
Melee defence and Ranged defence +15
Advanced Combat
Melee defence and Ranged defence +20
Expert Combat
Melee defence and Ranged defence +30
Master Combat
Melee defence and Ranged defence +40
Grandmaster Combat
Melee defence and Ranged defence +60
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Basic Melee
Melee attack +10. This cannot lower the enemy defence below 10.
Advanced Melee
Melee attack +20. Enemy defence is one half.
Expert Melee
Melee attack +30. Enemy defence in one third.
Master Melee
Melees attack +40. Enemy defence is one fourth.
Grandmaster attack
Two strikes
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Basic Magic resistance: +30%
Advanced Magic resistance: +50%
Expert Magic resistance: +70%
Master Magic resistance: 80%
Grandmaster Magic resistance: +100%
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Basic Archery
Ranged Attack +10. The enemy ranged defence cannot be lower than 10.
Advanced Archery
Ranged Attack +20. Enemy defence is one half. 100% damage behind walls and obtsacles (no obstacle penalty)
Expert Archery
Ranged Attack +30. Enemy defence is one third. No obstacle penalty. Long range.
Master Archery
Ranged Attack +40. Enemy defence is one fourth. No obstacle penalty. Long range. First strike by ranged attacks.
Grandmaster Archery
Ranged Attack +40. Enemy defence is one fourth. No obstacle penalty. Long range. First strike by ranged attacks. Another ranged attack.
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Moderator's note:This topic has been closed, as it refers to an older version of the game. To discuss Heroes 3, please go to Library Of Enlightenment, to discuss Heroes 4, please go to War Room Of Axeoth.
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"A brilliant light can either illuminate or blind. How will you know which until you open your eyes?"
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