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| Thread: Primary skill analysis: Death Magic | |
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Djive
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Zapper of Toads
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posted October 18, 2001 07:40 PM |
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Edited By: Djive on 20 Jan 2002
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Primary skill analysis: Death Magic
Continuing with the next magic skill.
Death family of skills: Death Magic, Occultism, Demonology, Necromancy
Death magic specializes in curses and raising undead.
From MtG (black): removal, sacrifices.
Examples of Heroes 3 spells that could fit: Disrupting Ray, Death Ripple, Quicksand.
Added some confirmed spells:
Level 1.
Raise Skeleton (Raises Skeletons from a dead stack of living creatures)
Cancellation
Level 2.
Mire (The targeted army moves with half the speed on the adventure map next turn.)
Level 3.
Aura of Fear
Plague
Magic leech
Mass Curse
Level 4.
Mass Weakness
Mass Sorrow (All enemy units have maximum negative morale.)
Vampiric Touch
Level 5.
Raise Vampire (Raises Vampires from a dead stack of living creatures)
Sacrifice
Unknown level:
Raise Ghost (Raises Ghosts from a dead stack of living creatures)
Animate Undead (Restores hitpoints to an undead Stack)
For this school there's likely a number of new spells. There might for instance be a way to mimic the Pit Lords ability to summon demons from a dead stack (no matter whose stack it is), until end of combat, perhaps this could be the Demonology skill? Perhaps animating dead stacks as zombies until end of combat. There could be a summoning spell of Undead creatures. I could also see the possibility to control undead in the enemy stack possibly winning them over for your own cause. All in all, this school will have more spells.
In case the first two secondaries are not for increasing spellpoints and spell effectiveness:
Demonology:
Ability to raise Demons from Dead stacks?
Ability to control undead stacks on the adventure map? (Similar to charm/diplomacy but works only on undead)
Demonology combined with Nature magic will allow summoning of Demons. Apparently these spells appear automatically in the mage's spellbook.
Occultism:
No ideas on this one. The symbol appears to be a kettle so perhaps an perhaps something related to Potions?
Necromancy:
Post combat effect to raise skeletons from the Dead.
An intersting school. Death Magic is sure to have some intersting abilities. Likely a school that have spells which normally would fall into another school's category but applicable for undead. Like spells for harming living creatures (direct damage), for summoning undead (summonming), and probably also for enhcaning combat values (life).
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"A brilliant light can either illuminate or blind. How will you know which until you open your eyes?"
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niteshade
Known Hero
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posted October 18, 2001 08:07 PM |
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Every magic skill has a skill that boosts spell points, and a skill that boosts spell power. Presumably occultism will be the spell point booster, and demonology will be the spell power booster.
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Djive
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Zapper of Toads
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posted October 18, 2001 08:32 PM |
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Quote:
Every magic skill has a skill that boosts spell points, and a skill that boosts spell power. Presumably occultism will be the spell point booster, and demonology will be the spell power booster.
I was lead to believe that from the Heroes 4 Beta Thread...
But since then I've read comments from one who tested the beta to the effect that one of the skills we assmed had this affect (Spirituality for Life magic) actually granted Luck instead.
No doubt some of the secondary skills boosts spell points or spell power, but some of them probably don't.
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"A brilliant light can either illuminate or blind. How will you know which until you open your eyes?"
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niteshade
Known Hero
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posted October 18, 2001 09:24 PM |
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Hmm......interesting. Well perhaps they are both right. Perhaps spirituality grants spell points as well as boosting luck. Afterall something has to effect spell points. I can't imagine life magic practitioners just get much fewer spell points then everyone else.
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StormWarning
Promising
Famous Hero
Archmage of Thunder
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posted October 18, 2001 10:50 PM |
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No, that was from the GamePen preview. (the first two skills being the same for all magics) And it also said in one of the previews or interviews (can't remember where) that Animate Dead is a spell.
Death Magic could be interesting. Necromancy is probably going to be the strongest "special" magic skill, although Summoning might be as good or better. Life Leech, if it is included, will be a very fun spell - drain life from an enemy and gain some yourself, like a Vampire's attack! I'd expect that there'll be a wide variety of uses for Death spells, and that this will be one of the most versatile schools of magic.
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The calm before the storm is about to end.
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Preserver
Promising
Famous Hero
Elemental Druid
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posted December 02, 2001 07:46 PM |
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A quote from Gus Smedstad:Quote:
"I think raising undead on the battlefield is a cool idea too - which is why we have the Death spells Raise Skeletons, Raise Ghosts, and Raise Vampires. Not to mention Animate Dead. No Raise Bone Dragon though, that'd steal too much of Nature's thunder."
Well, four confirmed spells right there.. 
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- The only alert the invaders had was the rustling of leaves on a day without wind -
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Djive
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Zapper of Toads
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posted December 13, 2001 09:34 PM |
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Two quotes from Gus Smedstad from Angelspit's "The Heroes of Might and Magic Forums"
"Correct. Imps, Cerberi, Ice Demons, Venom Spawn, and Devils are all considered "demonic." To learn demon summoning spells you need Demonology (a secondary skill of Death Magic) and Nature Magic."
"Ice Demons are Death creatures. No creatures summoned in combat last beyond that combat. To get permanent creatures, you need the Necromancy or Summoning skills, rather than a summoning spell."
As you can see Demonlogy has a specialized use when combined with Nature magic. I wonder if the above said spells from summoning will come with Demonlogy.
I can't really see Demonology spells either in the Death Magic Mage guild or in the Nature Magic mage guild, if they require an opposing school to cast.
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"A brilliant light can either illuminate or blind. How will you know which until you open your eyes?"
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Oldtimer
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Please leave a message after..
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posted December 13, 2001 10:30 PM |
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That is very interesting, you need demonology and nature magic to work those type of summoning spells. That opens up alot of possibilities with multi-school spells. Similiar to Magic:TG spells that need two different kinds of mana to cast. Maybe some of the upperclass spells will require the hero to be proficiant in different schools. That would make the Archmage hero type more desireable to develop.
Death + Nature = Demon summoning
Death + Life = ?
Death + Chaos = Armageddon?
Death + Order = animate dead of enemy units?
If multiple school spells are a fact, my hopes for the game will go up.
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Ichon
Responsible
Famous Hero
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posted December 13, 2001 11:11 PM |
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I like it this way...
Makes sense...
If it truly means some of the higher level spells require advanced specialties in more than one magic school- that should be great. In H3 it's much to easy to get the top spells at advanced uses easily. You could concievably have expert school and cast the highest level spell starting oly at level 5 for a few heroes, and many level 6-7. Meaning magic is much more powerful than might probability. This will balance that out a bit more, plus adding greater differential to the high level magic casters.
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Djive
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Zapper of Toads
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posted December 13, 2001 11:41 PM |
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I asked Gus about this on the other forum. This is his reply:
"You're correct. The Demon summoning spells are unique because they require two schools of magic, not one, to learn and cast. Since most heroes won't be able to cast them, they don't appear in mage guilds or shrines. They'd just take up space. Hence you learn them automatically if you have the correct skills.
- Gus"
So you actually get the spells for free when you have reached the required levels. I actually like this strategy. It makes good sense. The study in skills gives you spells. I believe I proposed something similar in some old thread when introducing a new skill.
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"A brilliant light can either illuminate or blind. How will you know which until you open your eyes?"
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Ichon
Responsible
Famous Hero
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posted December 14, 2001 12:05 AM |
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Nice
I love that. So you neednt return to your town to learn certain spells. You automatically get them in your spell book on level up. Nice... I'm getting more intrigued by the new class system and abilities the more I find out.
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niteshade
Known Hero
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posted December 14, 2001 11:32 PM |
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Wow, I must admit that is extremely cool. I love the idea of a combination of two skills giving special bonuses.
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StormWarning
Promising
Famous Hero
Archmage of Thunder
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posted December 16, 2001 04:54 AM |
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Sweet!
Quote:
Since most heroes won't be able to cast them, they don't appear in mage guilds or shrines. They'd just take up space. Hence you learn them automatically if you have the correct skills.
That is totally awesome! I hope every two-school combo has similar spells that are automatically available to the player, or at the very least every two-enemy-school combo. Otherwise I think you'll see a lot more Nature/Death players than other combos. And since Chaos, the only school that is allied to both, also (assuming previous info is unchanged) has the most powerful creature in the game (the Black Dragon), that will be particularly unbalancing in high-power games (they've already got the best creature, now they get free spells too?)
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The calm before the storm is about to end.
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Darion
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted December 16, 2001 05:34 AM |
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Perhaps with Death+Life magic, it would be the spells of life-draining or resurrecting of undead perhaps? I would think that even though Death and Life are opposites, it would perhaps be sensible to think that Death gets back health someway... but not in direct healing spells?
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StormWarning
Promising
Famous Hero
Archmage of Thunder
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posted January 21, 2002 05:01 PM |
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"Gold" spells
We have the Nature/Death spells confirmed. Will there be other combo-spells, like the gold cards in MtG? I hope so, especially for enemy schools! Ideas for them:
Life/Order - possibly spells like Anti-Magic?
Life/Death - Life Drain (direct damage, plus the hero gains health equal to the damage done)?
Life/Chaos - something like a combination of Magic Mirror and Fire Shield (a portion of all hand-to-hand damage against the creature is randomly redirected to an enemy)?
Life/Nature - ???
Order/Death - maybe something that suppresses magic?
Order/Chaos - ???
Order/Nature - ???
Death/Chaos - Pestilence/Armageddon (damage everything)?
Death/Nature - already confirmed (Demon summoning)
Chaos/Nature - ???
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The calm before the storm is about to end.
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Djive
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Zapper of Toads
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posted January 21, 2002 05:29 PM |
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Quote:
We have the Nature/Death spells confirmed. Will there be other combo-spells, like the gold cards in MtG?
No, Demonlogy is (currently) the only exception for this type of combo spell. Information to this effect can be found in the addendum for the game-pen interview. (StormWarning quoted most of it in the Life Magic thread, but there was a short passage on Demonology also.)
It's btw 5 spells. One for having the two skills at basic, one for advanced, and so on.
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StormWarning
Promising
Famous Hero
Archmage of Thunder
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posted January 22, 2002 10:05 PM |
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Aw, nuts
I'm just a little worried about the balance issues there. Unless Death and Nature are clearly weaker than the other three magic schools, or Asylum clearly weaker than the other towns (which is unlikely), I think they should do it for all combos, or at least all non-allied combos. Otherwise, Asylum gets a bit of an advantage (they're allied to both Death and Nature, so they get easier access to these spells than Necropolis or Preserve since it's hard for a Druid to learn Death Magic or a Necromancer Nature Magic).
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The calm before the storm is about to end.
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Oldtimer
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Please leave a message after..
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posted January 22, 2002 10:06 PM |
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But that still opens up the door for new multi-magic spells and heroes in the expansion.
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Djive
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Zapper of Toads
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posted February 15, 2002 06:55 PM |
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Updated version of the Death magic skill...
Prerequisites for skills:
Basic Death Magic for Advanced Necromancy
Advanced Death Magic for Master Necromancy
Expert Death Magic for Grandmaster Necromancy
Basic Occultism for Advanced Death Magi.
Advanced Occultism and Basic Demonology for Expert Death Magic
Expert Occultism and Expert Demonology for Master Death Magic
Grandmaster Occultism and Grandmaster Demonology for Grandmaster Death Magic
Basic Death Magic
Hero can cast level 1 Death Magic spells.
Spells: Cancellation(C), Curse(C), Disrupting Ray(C), Fatigue(C), Poison(D), Raise Skeleton(S)
Advanced Death Magic
Hero can cast level 2 Death Magic spells.
Spells: Animate Dead(S), Life Drain(D), Mire, Sorrow(C), Unholy Song(C), Weakness(C)
Moderator's note:This topic has been closed, as it refers to an older version of the game. To discuss Heroes 3, please go to Library Of Enlightenment, to discuss Heroes 4, please go to War Room Of Axeoth.
Expert Death Magic
Hero can cast level 3 Death Magic spells.
Spells: Aura of Fear(B), Magic Leech(C), Mass Cancellation(C), Mass Curse(C), Plague(C&D), Raise Ghost(S)
Master Death Magic
Hero can cast level 4 Death Magic spells.
Spells: Death Call(S), Mass Sorrow(C), Mass Weakness(C), Vampiric Touch(B)
Grandmaster Death Magic
Hero can cast level 5 Death Magic spells.
Spells: Hand of Death(C), Raise Vampires(S), Sacrifice(B)
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Basic Occultism: +5 mana and +10% efficiency of Death spells.
Advanced Occultism: +10 mana, +20% efficiency of Death spells, recovers 1 mana/day
Expert Occultism:+15 mana, +30% efficiency of Death spells, recovers 1 mana/day.
Master Occultism: +20 mana, +40% efficiency of Death spells, recovers 2 mana/day
Grandmaster Occultism: +25 mana, +50% efficiency of Death spells, recovers s mana/day
Basic Demonology: +5 mana and +10% efficiency of Death spells.
Advanced Demonology: +10 mana, +20% efficiency of Death spells, recovers 1 mana/day
Expert Demonology:+15 mana, +30% efficiency of Death spells, recovers 1 mana/day.
Master Demonology: +20 mana, +40% efficiency of Death spells, recovers 2 mana/day
Grandmaster Demonology: +25 mana, +50% efficiency of Death spells, recovers s mana/day
The hero automatically gains access to the below spells if the requirements are met:
Basic Demonology + Basic Nature Magic: Can cast spell Summon Imps
Advanced Demonology + Advanced Nature Magic: Can cast spell Summon Cerberi
Expert Demonology + Expert Nature Magic: Can cast spell Summon Ice Demon
Master Demonology + Master Nature Magic: Can cast spell Summon Venom Spawn
Grandmaster Demonology + Grandmaster Nature Magic: Can cast spell Summon Devils
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Basic Necromancy
After the battle 10% of the dead enemies are animated into skeletons (10% of the whole HP of the enemies, Maximum one skeleton for one enemy) The experience value of the animated Skeletons cannot be higher then 40 XP, +10% per level of the hero.
Advanced Necromancy
After the battle 15% of the dead enemies are animated into skeletons (10% of the whole HP of the enemies. Maximum one skeleton for one enemy) The experience value of the animated Skeletons cannot be higher then 80 XP, +10% per level of the hero.
Expert Necromancy
After the battle 20% of the dead enemies are animated into skeletons or ghosts (20% of the whole HP of the enemies. Maximum one undead for one enemy) The experience value of the animated creatures cannot be higher then 120 XP, +10% per level of the hero.
Master Necromancy
After the battle 25% of the dead enemies are animated into skeletons or ghosts (25% of the whole HP of the enemies. Maximum one undead for one enemy) The experience value of the animated creatures cannot be higher then 160 XP, +10% per level of the hero.
Grandmaster Necromancy
After the battle 30% of the dead enemies are animated into skeletons, ghosts or vampires (30% of the whole HP of the enemies. Maximum one undead for one enemy) The experience value of the animated creatures cannot be higher then 200 XP, +10% per level of the hero.
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"A brilliant light can either illuminate or blind. How will you know which until you open your eyes?"
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