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| Thread: The "Marketing" and "Logic" skills! | |
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space3999
Hired Hero
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posted May 01, 2001 02:00 AM |
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The "Marketing" and "Logic" skills!
I've come up with two new secondary skills that could have a HUGE impact on the strategy and game play in Heroes4--Marketing and Logic. I'll explain Logic first since it requires less explaining.
The Logic skill will give you a lot of abilities. It will allow you to reveal more pieces to the Obelisk puzzles than normal (closer to the center of the Grail's location). And while I'm talking about "Obelisks", there should now be a "Water Obelisk" that you visit in the ocean that will lead you to a buried ultimate sunken treasure! Logic will also give you clues to riddles at the Sphinx (was this structure in Heroes3 like it was in Heroes2? I don't remember seeing it), and it will help you in combat also. Like the computer will give you hints and clues on who you should attack and what spells you should cast based on the units you have and the units of the opposing army and offer advice and hints while travelling on the adventure map. Like one hint could be "The Power Liches are guarding what seems like just an open space with a few trees around it. There could possibly be a secret stache of gold or resources behind them." You would get these clues by visiting special "Logic" structures (like a giant crystal ball or fortune teller's tent or some huge chess board-like structure or something). And the clues would be pre-programmed into the map and ranked from basic to expert (or master if Heroes4 goes this far with learning skills).
And now onto the Marketing skill. This one basically gives you better deals when trading in Marketplaces, Freelancer's Guilds, Skeleton Transformers, Black Markets, and other places where you can buy artifacts and resources. It also reduces the cost of several things, such as purchasing troops, building boats, buying maps for the water and land, etc. This skill would be very beneficial to people who like the "Explorer" or "Builder" personality because having to buy and build things at reduced cost would greatly benefit them.
Comments, as sual, are very welcome.
Space3999
"The Greatest Druid lives!"
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malkia
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted May 01, 2001 06:38 AM |
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By my opinion MARKETING skill seems reasonable - TRADE, but the other one not.
But here is the thing - you are not playing with ONE player - you are playing with 8 or more... So how then this MARKETING should work? Additively? Get best one? Average(doesn't make sense either)?
May be there should be some SKILLS which your KINGDOM will get as a whole, which gave me an idea - i'll post
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space3999
Hired Hero
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posted May 01, 2001 07:49 AM |
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I'm confused.....
The "Marketing" skill can definitely work with multiple players! It's just another secondary skill! You just get better deals and reduced costs like I explained. At "Basic Marketing", for example, it'll cost you maybe 5% less to build town structures. At "Advanced", maybe you get a 1/7 trade value for mercury to wood while at "Expert", it would be 1/5 or something. In essence, you'd be your own marketplace just like with the "Estates" skill, you are your own bank! I thought the "Logic" skill would add some creativity to the game. Just an idea. Tell me--why do you think it isn't a good idea? And I'm not quite sure what you mean when you mentioned "additively", "get best one", "average", etc.
Space3999
"The Greatest Druid lives!"
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malkia
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted May 01, 2001 08:07 AM |
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So you got one hero with MARKETING - and hooolaa-hop!
shouldn't be like this.
It will be too strong for a single hero to have this ability.
What about if TWO heroes have the same skill ? which one is taken into account - max? average? or what?
TRADING makes big sense at different periods into game - you may need it all the time, you may need it at begining, or at the end (to get much more money) or combined.
It should be something that you as overall can achieve - for example - your KINGDOM can choose at some point to have better TRADE (MARKETPLACE) instead of MIGHT or MAGIC.
For example the more OBELISKS you found - the more EXPERIECNCE to your KINGDOM grows - and your kingdom may have ONE or TWO general SKILLS (better to say - ways of rules). - Like Hero Experience - but for all the kingdom
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Mystery
Famous Hero
Hatebreeder
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posted May 01, 2001 07:29 PM |
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Maybe master diplomatics can work as marketing.
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D3@th t0 Fals3 m3Tal!
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Triton
Adventuring Hero
Master of the Deep
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posted May 02, 2001 08:50 PM |
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Secondary skills
Here's my view on this matter.
Marketing-I think this idea is good.In M&M games,there's this ability "Merchant" that works similarly.Making this an ability for master diplomatics works well.So it means that a hero with master diplomatics can trade in a town's marketplace at the same rate as the outside ones.Sounds cool in a map with few towns and mines.
Logics-The faster rate of revealing the grail's location sounds alright.It makes the grail a bit easier to find.I think this is good.More often than not,the grail is found at a point when the player is too strong to lose.The combat benefits don't seem good,though.Most people would like to figure their own strategy instead of having the computer's advice.
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space3999
Hired Hero
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posted May 09, 2001 04:10 PM |
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Replies to everyone else's replies!
I don't think the "Marketing" skill is THAT powerful. And why can't a single hero have this? The game isn't totally focused on trading--there's spells and artifacts to consider also. Marketing gives you better deals at marketplaces and other trading places and allows you to buy troops at reduced cost. How is that being too powerful? It would only help you save a small amount of gold and resources. Like, instead of recruiting an Archangel for 5000 gold and 3 gems, it would cost 4900 at basic, 4800 at advanced, 4700 at expert, and 4600 and 2 gems at expert. So you wouldn't be saving a WHOLE LOT of resources. 3DO could decide where exactly tp put the limitations on this. But it would still be useful because the gold and resources saved could add up. Just like with the heores who have the +350 gold specialty. It doesn't seem like much, but that +350 can add up over the course of a game. And I don't feel you need "Diplomacy" for this skill to work. "Diplomacy" should just be for pursuading armies to join your own army. If you have great experience and knowledge in trading and economics, you just get better deals because of that knowledge. Just like in real life. If you have a lot of knowledge about the real value and prices of things, you'd save some money. Like going to a retail store to buy something instead of a specialty store to get the exact same thing except at reduced cost. With "Marketing", all of this knowledge is already in your head and you simply just know how to do it without any diplomatic persuading from your part.
To Mystery--I DO like the idea of having skills you could learn for the whole KINGDOM. That would mean anybody you recruit from that town will automatically have that skill--excellent idea! Finding special obelisks (not the ones used to find the Grail) is a great way to do it, too.
In regards to the "Logic" skill--perhaps having the computer give to suggestions isn't as good an idea as I thought. I, too, would like to use my own strategy in ocmbat. But revealing more puzzle pieces to the Grail is I think a great idea. What does everyone think of an "underwater" Ultimate Artifact where there are special "water obelisks" you'd have to find? And now that I think about it, the Logic skill should be solely for revealing puzzle pieces to finding special artifacts, treasures, or hidden structures on the map, and there are special obelisks you'd have to visit for each one. I also had an additional idea with the Logic skill. Maybe there's a new sturcture on the map called the "Academy of Philosophy or Logicians" or something and you get to play some puzzles or something. Like, let's say you're presented with a mixed up array of puzzle pieces which you have to arrange to reveal the picture of a painting and if you reveal it, you get resources or gold or creatures or whatever award you can think of. And at higher skill levels, you get to arrange more puzzle pieces.
Comments?
Space3999
"The Greatest Druid in the universe lives again!"
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arachnid
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted May 09, 2001 04:30 PM |
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No offence but the logic skill is not needed! You are trying to add stuff to the game to fit it in. You should not have to add more so it could work it should improve the game not just add fluff to it. 
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Mystery
Famous Hero
Hatebreeder
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posted May 09, 2001 06:42 PM |
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Space, it wasn't my idea to have skills for the whole kingdom, I said that I think that master diplomacy should be like marketing.
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D3@th t0 Fals3 m3Tal!
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Triton
Adventuring Hero
Master of the Deep
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posted May 09, 2001 09:32 PM |
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I disagree that Logic is useless.It could possibly accelerate the quest for the Grail.It will then be up to the individual whether he/she wants to learn the skill.
Since there are 3 associated secondary skill for each of the 9 primary skills(as quoted form the mmportals website),I don't see why these additional skills can't fit into the game.After all,logic can be associated with Intellect the way Wisdom and Intelligence do,right?I just guess that Intellect might be one of the primary skills
About the sea treasure idea,I'm for it.Since those shipwreak survivors hanging for their dear lives could give good artifacts,why not?But I'm rather apprehensive about the nature of the sunken treasure.Sometimes,too powerful an artifact found could spoil the interest in a game.
The Academy of Philosophy could work as a side-game the way the Acromage tournament did in MM8.
Moderator's note:This topic has been closed, as it refers to an older version of the game. To discuss Heroes 3, please go to Library Of Enlightenment, to discuss Heroes 4, please go to War Room Of Axeoth.
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