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Heroes Community > Library of Enlightenment > Thread: The key to victory? (long)
Thread: The key to victory? (long)
Tapani
Tapani


Adventuring Hero
posted August 12, 2001 03:41 AM bonus applied.
Edited By: Hexa on 26 Jan 2002

The key to victory? (long)

Me and my friends has been playing homm3 for a few years in LAN and this is my theories about what decides the games (apart from lucky map advantages

We play 1v1, random maps (strong monsters, no island maps), expert level, 2 mins / turn.

Usually our games develop that everyone has a main hero that holds their main army, and the one who wins the final battle between the main heroes wins the game.

So the whole game is building up for this final battle, and a key to victory there is to have most flesh in your army (that is whose guys beat the hardest and can take the most beating). Of course assuming both main heros are _roughly_ equal.

Therefore the best secondary skills are the ones that allow you to get more units somehow, that is Diplomacy and Necromancy.

Also skills that make your units endure more beating and hit harder are almost required. A hero wo Offense and Armorer have usually lost against heros with them, even with slightly larger armies. (Magic heros suck usually because of this).

The third factor deciding a final battle is initiative, a stack attacking will kill off a portion of the defending stack before they can retaliate. Excellent secondary skills achieving this are Tactics combined with mass haste/prayer or in some cases mass slow.
This depends of course on what troop combinations you and your opponent have. (And what you know of your opponents spells).

So my theory is that the perfect hero should have Necromancy, Diplomacy, Offense, Armorer, Tactics, Earth and Air (or Water if prayer) Magic. Of course this is not always possible to achieve. (Wisdom can be nice too because of Town Portal and Prayer.)

What heroes has the chance to become this dream hero?
My favourite is Isra, she has a poor prob to get diplomacy (abt 30% I wd say), but the rest usually gets there. Also specialty Necromancy and starting with magic arrow is really nice too.

Another hero I like is Mephala, specialty of Armorer and a quite good chance (more than 50%) to get Diplomacy. Too bad Rampart buildings are so expensive so it is hard to get level 4,6 and 7.

Yes, I prefer specialties that improves with level.

The last part of this philosophy of mine is that one shd go for troops in the beginning (no town hall etc). Week 1 should maximize the number of HP (roughly) you will dwell the first dwell. Usually a citadel and lvl 5 dwelling is not unrealistic at all. Week 2 should go for economy, the goal is city hall and lvl 6 dwelling (depending on race). Buy only the amount of troops necessary for getting you further in your exploration.
Another variant is that if you have plenty of gold around you (take gold from chests) and you can buy most of the dwell after week 1 you can do so and try to compensate for the lousy income by taking as many caches as possible, and building up your income with that money.

These are just general guidelines, a good player needs always to be flexible and creative...

So this is how I play. What are the big catches in this? What is considered the key to victory among good internet player?

//Tapani

Edit: revived!@

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TemoS
TemoS

Tavern Dweller
posted August 12, 2001 06:12 AM

Quote:

Usually our games develop that everyone has a main hero that holds their main army, and the one who wins the final battle between the main heroes wins the game.

So the whole game is building up for this final battle, and a key to victory there is to have most flesh in your army (that is whose guys beat the hardest and can take the most beating). Of course assuming both main heros are _roughly_ equal.


Well, that's typical of 1on1 game, one heroe hold the whole army and the game end with one battle. While this maybe fun, sometime the lack of strategy of such game tend to bore me

Quote:

Therefore the best secondary skills are the ones that allow you to get more units somehow, that is Diplomacy and Necromancy.


While Diplomacy and Necromancy are good skill, they're are not the "best" secondary skill (Best is really a strange term, all skill can be the best one, depending on the situation)

Quote:

(Magic heros suck usually because of this).


Well, one year ago i was thinking like that, but not now. Magic is really useful, one the map and in combat, with good spell and a good strategy, magic can beat might. Mass spell tend to be really powerful.

Quote:

So my theory is that the perfect hero should have Necromancy, Diplomacy, Offense, Armorer, Tactics, Earth and Air (or Water if prayer) Magic. Of course this is not always possible to achieve. (Wisdom can be nice too because of Town Portal and Prayer.)


I dont agree with the concept of "perfect heroes". Expert Leadership can be really powerful. And all magic sphere can be deadly, i tend to prefer Earth&Water, but Air&Fire are good too. Just try Blind...

Quote:

The last part of this philosophy of mine is that one shd go for troops in the beginning (no town hall etc). Week 1 should maximize the number of HP (roughly) you will dwell the first dwell. Usually a citadel and lvl 5 dwelling is not unrealistic at all. Week 2 should go for economy, the goal is city hall and lvl 6 dwelling (depending on race). Buy only the amount of troops necessary for getting you further in your exploration.


Agreed

Quote:

These are just general guidelines, a good player needs always to be flexible and creative...


Right !
Rigid player are prevesible

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Tapani
Tapani


Adventuring Hero
posted August 12, 2001 04:53 PM

(!*# forum, I forgot to enter my username and the whole post disappeared!)

TemoS writes:

While Diplomacy and Necromancy are good skill, they're are not the "best" secondary skill (Best is really a strange term, all skill can be the best one, depending on the situation)


What skill would you prefer in front of Diplomacy? I cannot think of anyone (unless the final battle is very close then I could take luck/leadership). But in the early game?


> (Magic heros suck usually because of this).

Well, one year ago i was thinking like that, but not now. Magic is really useful, one the map and in combat, with good spell and a good strategy, magic can beat might. Mass spell tend to be really powerful.


What I ment is that each race has two hero categories, one magic and one might. And usually only the might heroes can get both Armorer and Offense, which are both a necessary condition for winning a even final battle.

Even if you choose a might hero you can get mass spells, you dont need to play a magic hero for that.

Also the magic heroes special abilities tend to suck..


I dont agree with the concept of "perfect heroes". Expert Leadership can be really powerful. And all magic sphere can be deadly, i tend to prefer Earth&Water, but Air&Fire are good too. Just try Blind...


Blind, armageddon and berserk are the good fire spells, and two of them works even without having fire magic.
And berserk requires fire magic AND wisdom, I need to know for sure I get berserk before even starting sacrificing two skill slots for that, even if berserk can be a game winner.

Abt leadership I usually play necro..

If I don't I might choose it since I cannot always build the perfect hero.. (also morale boosting artifacts are not impossible to find.)

But it is always about prioritization between skills, what skills give me a higher probability to win the final battle. And usually leadership gets cut away

Next time you loose, think of what kind of hero could have won you the game (if any).. and you might see what I am talking about with perfect heroes

//Tapani

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TemoS
TemoS

Tavern Dweller
posted August 12, 2001 05:21 PM

I know there's Might and Magic heroes, and i prefer Magic heroes (well, usually i take also a might heroes early in the game)
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Ichon
Ichon


Responsible
Famous Hero
posted August 12, 2001 10:42 PM bonus applied.

Diplomacy...

The thing about diplomacy is that you don't need it on your main hero. It is a good skill no doubt, but it is a waste of a skill slot in the final battle. Just make some other heroes with diplomacy, that way your hero can go straight to important map locations without sacrificing time to gather armies. Let some secondary heroes with diplo skill do that. Same idea as with Necromancers, take Galthran or Thant, as main hero, but let Isra (necro % bonus) gather all the level 1&2 battles to get max skeletons. Especially if you have two of these reavers going out getting skeletons and also one of them has diplomacy, you will get 1000 skeletons in a few days.

I agree, might heores are better. At the higher levels they have more useful skills; offense, armorer, 1 magic school at least, logistics, tactics, luck, resistance, artillery... whereas a magic hero is usually loaded with one or two useless skills; scholar, mystacism, eagle eye... etc. Also, if you find recanters cloak or red orb your might hero will kick their ass. And if they find it... you at least still have a chance.

Also, luck and morale as good, but usually a waste of a skill slot since not only are there many artifacts providing both, but before the battle you can go to many map locations and fuel up. I've had battles with +10 morale and luck without having those as skills. I prefer to get the no morale or luck artifacts though. More predictable for me, and also if I am the one attacking then it doesn't matter if they run some scout at me to knock off my bonus of luck&morale from the map locations.

A good idea however is to make two heroes, one might and one magic from the start of the game. That way you can take advantage of anythnig that comes your way. Perhaps you have fortress and get resurrection, utopia week 2 easily. Or you get solmyr and then can break though unto opponent in week2 with 0 losses from titans guarding the way. If your spells suck, then you can always keep the magic hero as a hit&run and let the might do all the work. Another thing I have done is let a hero with resurrection fight through utopias, guards and such so 0 unit losses, then hadn off the army to my might hero with recanters. Best of both. Use combined as much as possible and you will be amazed at outcome. A thing to keep in mind, for one level 13 hero, you can get two level 10's at equal experience... because a hero can only visit each learning stone, etc once, but two hero can visit twice basically, and tree's of knowledge same effect- I rather have two of almost equal, than one without options.

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Xarfax111
Xarfax111


Bad-mannered
Supreme Hero
The last hero standing
posted December 20, 2004 11:38 PM
Edited By: Xarfax111 on 20 Dec 2004

... i just found this 3 years oldonly 4 posts long thread, which contains...

....all necessary for new players to know.

Unbelievable how old this thread is, and how the players still ask the same old supid questions on and on...

Thats really weird.

SO READ IT!

Xarfax1

PS: Dont read Temo posts = noobie warning
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