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Heroes Community > Library of Enlightenment > Thread: New random template in Beta-phase
Thread: New random template in Beta-phase [ This thread is 3 pages long: (1) 2 3 ]
angelito
angelito

Hero of Order
proud father of a princess
posted March 31, 2005 03:19 PM
Edited by angelito on 18 Apr 2006

New random template in Beta-phase

Hello random-lovers

I finished my new rmg-template called "Angelitos fiesta". Made the latest update today (march 31st)
I like to send it to as many people as possible to get many feedbacks about it.
Everyone who is interested in trying out this template, please gimme your email-addy and i will send it to ya.

Description:

You can play that template 1on1 or 2vs2.
On 1on1, L or XL is possible
On 2vs2, XL only is possible
NO under for both possible.

Every player has a poor to average starting area with his starting town only.
Every starting area is connected to an area with 2 more towns (both without fort)
NO relics or topes possible in these 2 areas! (except warriors tomb though..)
From every second area, there is a connection to the middle (treasure) area, where u meet your opponent normaly.
Gold, wood and ore mine in starting area, rest in second area.

Please feel free to post here how u liked it (too tough, too easy, too poor, too boring..)

Greetings
angelito



Edit

OK, after a long period, i started to tune that template again since 2 weeks.
Map design is still the same (1 starting area, 1 second area a bit smaller (always dirt terrain + random town), 1 treasure area (always desert+ random town) with same size as 2nd area .
Both treasure areas (desert) have a castle now, so u got a road connection to your starting town. Only way to meet your opponent is through desert.
You wonīt find any utopias, Level 7 dwells or more than 5.000 exp points out of box in your 2 areas. Also no relics in first or second area, except from tombes.
For the matter of fact, u lack in good arties, the guards to desert should be pretty tough. You will have plenty of stuff to do in your 2 areas, but u also will need all experience points u can gather for your main.
Desert is pretty rich, topes, boxes and relics can be found there.

It is still called "Angelitos Fiesta", version 1.11 now.
Anyone who wants to test it, feel free to post here and i can send it to you.
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LKru33
LKru33


Promising
Famous Hero
3x NFL Pick'em Champ
posted March 31, 2005 03:52 PM
Edited By: lkru33 on 31 Mar 2005

I have tested your earlier version twice...

- 1st time vs AI
I just played a quick game to see the map and how it played.  
* I played L, no under, 130% and chose Castle as my town.  I was able to build Angels and Castle first week, but didn't have many unguarded precious resources in my area. There seemed to be plenty of gold and wood/coal lying around though.  
* Breaking to the "Dirt Zone" where 2nd and 3rd town are located, consisted of fighting lots of 40 Grand Elves, so it took a little longer to get to 2nd and 3rd town than it did when playing Jebus.  
* Treasure area didn't take long to get to, but didn't break until week 4 cuz my stats weren't as good as if I were playing Jebus.  In the treasure area, there are many relics, pan boxes, lvl 7 dwellings, topes, etc...much like in Jebus.  Only difference is that this area seemed much larger... therefore you can be a day or 2 late breaking into the treasure zone and still be able to make up for lost time.

* In the first game, my observation from my area was that my zone was connected to the "Dirt Zone" - Where 2nd and 3rd town are... and also connected to "Desert Zone" or Treasure Area... so from my main Castle, I didn't have a long journy to either zone, but had to fight more battles to get resources to get my AA's.  

- 2nd time I played in a fun 1 vs 1 game on the Zone.
* We played XL, no under,130% and again I took Castle as my town.  Again, I was able to build my Angel dwelling and Castle first week.  
* The difference in this game is that the "Dirt Zone" separated my starting zone and the "Treasure Zone".  I had to travel an awfully long distance to get to the Treasure Zone after getting my 2nd and 3rd Towns.
* After breaking in the treasure Zone (Only 1 enterence), It was a long and winding road leading to my opponents castle. There were no additional towns or castles in the game (just like the first game) besides the 3 for each player.  In this particular game, we had no rules and I was lucky enough to get the angel wings... if that weren't the case, chaining troops would have taken me forever when attacking my opponent in his land.  

* So far, the game seems to be very balanced in the first 2 zones. Unlike Jebus, I think you can enter the treasure area 2 or 3 days late and still get enough arties and topes to keep up with your opponent (because of the long travel through the treasure area).

**  1 important element to the game that could make this unbalanced is what I experienced between my 2 games.  1 person may have early access to the treasure zone by boardering both 2nd area and treasure zone from starting area... where the opponent may only boarder the 2nd area and have to travel all the way through to get to the treasure area, which would make for a much longer journey from the main castle. (If player 1 should have a long journey, so should player 2... if both are short journeys, no problem)

I think this has the makings for being a very fun template (as I had lots of fun playing)!!

I definitely want the updated template  Keep me on your mailing list.  
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angelito
angelito

Hero of Order
proud father of a princess
posted March 31, 2005 04:27 PM

Thx for your feedback Lee

I heard it twice now, that the starting area still seems to be too rich to be a real challenge. Thatīs why i changed many settings now. Should be harder now.
And about your connection description....the second example u gave is like i wanted it to be. The first example was a bad map i guess. I had that twice also. Bad, but couldnīt find out how to prevent that though...

I sent ya the newest version 5 minutes ago..


Greetings
angelito
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LKru33
LKru33


Promising
Famous Hero
3x NFL Pick'em Champ
posted March 31, 2005 04:48 PM

No problem for the feedback... the least I can do if someone is putting in so much time to create a new template.

Thanks for the updated version


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LKru33
LKru33


Promising
Famous Hero
3x NFL Pick'em Champ
posted March 31, 2005 06:54 PM
Edited By: lkru33 on 31 Mar 2005

1 additional comment....

*  When traveling through the Treasure area, I noticed only 1 road connecting from player 1 2nd zone to player 2 2nd zone... which means LOTS of desert area containing topes, relics, etc... far off the path, with no roads. It seems that a person can lose focus on main goal if spending too much time collecting/searching for relics, etc... that aren't close to the path.  Maybe secondary skills like Pathfinding may be more useful in this template?

Just another 2 cents of my input  


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angelito
angelito

Hero of Order
proud father of a princess
posted March 31, 2005 10:05 PM

Yes, there is only one road, coz there will be NO town in the treasure areas. We will see how this works in real game. If it is too difficult (coz of lack in spellpoints after a while), i will put in 1 or 2 additional towns.
What i forgot to mention is, every player has his OWN treasure area, which means, there will be a guard anywhere on this road who protects these 2 treasure area from each other.

Edit:
Got some more feedback in the zone today from LordLazy and Maretti (thx to u guys). Seems to be too rich in ressources, but lack in arties. So u will be able to built your town without any problems, but will be hard to break in middle area coz of low skills.
I changed some settings again, so there should be lesser ressources, but some arties in both areas.
Sent it already to Lee, LL and Maretti.
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LKru33
LKru33


Promising
Famous Hero
3x NFL Pick'em Champ
posted April 04, 2005 01:40 PM
Edited By: lkru33 on 6 Apr 2005

Wow, what a difference!!! Version 1.1 is MUCH tougher!! No resources are free in this game.  Every last piece of wood and ore had to be battled for.  I am currently in a game vs. Patriot Pulsar (not finished yet) and my first wood mine was guarded by lots of archers, and my first ore mine was guarded by a Hoarde of Familiars.  Still some gold piles laying around, but not near as many.  I will give more feedback once the game is finished.  

Edit**  Game finished.  I looked at the entire map afterwards and noticed a couple of things:
1) The treasure area is very massive (about 1/3 of the map) and at least 75% of that area will never be touched IMHO.  Most of what was touched in the treasure area is anything within site of the road that looked worthwhile.  My castle was a long distance from the treasure area... "took 2 days to chain troops with 8 heroes", so I didn't want to spend too much time off the path.  Maybe additional roads could be added? Or possibly reducing the size of the treasure area and adding more size to the starting zones?  

2) In this particular game, my castle was quite a long way from the treasure area, where my opponents castle could chain troops to treasure area in 1 day with maybe 5 heroes (mine 2 days with 8 heroes).  Seems a little unbalanced in this regard.  

Overall, very tough map to play, but still had much fun playing the map.    
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tigris
tigris


Supreme Hero
Supreme Noobolator
posted April 05, 2005 02:31 PM

I'll try to submit the feedback to the version 1.1 of your template,Angelito in relation with the rmg file.I played the map and i guess i can best explain what i think about it this way.

This template is unique in more ways than one IMHO.(and this is not an opinion, is a fact).First of all it is the only template in which the monsters strenght in the starting zone are set to strong.I was reading Midnight's interview this afternoon and at one point he said it's not good to set strong on the staring zone(he never did in one of his templates).But you did! And it looks great!Athough it may be a little boring in the first week, this is chaining in effect.I mean you have to fight for every pile of gold or resource.nothing is handed out for free as rychen said in another thread about Jebus.

Next stop i want to talk about the treasure value in the starting zone.I liked that trick you made with using only two layers instead of three.What i didn't like is why did you avoided 1000 to 1500 values(wich is the highes probability for crypts and piles), but used 1500 to 6500.This is where you'll find conservatories(2000-3500), also naga banks, stores(IMHO this are more freqent at values over 4000).So my opinion would be to avoid cons as much as possible(this is also the case for the second area).Hives start at about 8000 so none of that in the starting area.I have some ideeas, but the main thing is to work a bit on that aspect(IMHO ).

Next zone sizes and conections:This is whre i think you have some problems.I spoke to Lee yesterday too, and he agrees with me on this.

The problem is you have designed this template to have 2 treasure zones, separated;one for each player(i'm talking about the 1 vs 1 template).Ideal would be that those treasure zones are in oposite corners of the map, conected by a monolyth.Picture a map like this: starting areas are bottom right for red, bottom left for blue,Second areas are somewhere in the middle and the upper corners are for the treasure areas.The conection between treasure areas made by monolyth (this would be a perfect map IMHO).Unfortunately, this happens only once or twice every 10 maps(i created aprox 25 maps both M with under and L no under).In the rest of the cases, there practicly is only one giant treasure zone(the two zones are separated by some monsters-horde lvl 6 or so-nothing fancy).This has a bad influence on the zone sizes.You know better than me, how relative the zone sizes are.So when you have 2 zones with size 30(the treasure zones) situated in the middle of the map, that actually will mean half of the whole map(when in theory it should be a third at most).This way the starting zones become very small, and not being able to break into the second area week 1(wich is quite possible equals death cos you'll have nothing to do but hit end turn).

Opposed to that, when the 2 treasure zones are situated in different parts of the map and are conected by monolyth, they seem to be smaller and thus the proportions are respected.I have a couple of maps that i generated saved and the difference is obvious.

My suggestion to that would be eighter make 2 separate  smaller treasure zones that conect to the main treasure zone(similar to extreme), or find a way to conect those zones by monolyth.AFAIK this is still a mystery even for Midnight though...

Second thought, that first ideea with the 2 smaller treasure zones conecting with the main one would make this template exactly like extreme if i'm not mistaken so it's no good.

Still something has to be done, cos starting in a small area and having to travel half the map to you oponent's second area isn't that appealing.

Just my 2 cents right there
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angelito
angelito

Hero of Order
proud father of a princess
posted April 06, 2005 03:43 PM

I have to thank all of you testers for bringing so much feedback
Only coz of all these informations iīm able to make the template better and better.
New version released today, Version 1.3

Changings:

- starting area is connected to 2nd and to treasure area now. So the way from home town towards breaking guards should be smaller. 2nd area is not connected to treasure area anymore.

- some treasure values changed, coz there appeared an utopia in 2nd area in one of my tests. Also, u should find more nagabanks and stores now.

- best i could do for pan boxes were all level 1 or level 2 spells, 5.000 exp. points, 5.000 gold, some level 1 or 2 creatures. If i set the value higher, again utopias would appear.

- in 8 out of 10 cases u will find an university in your area now.

- size of treasure areas is smaller now, should be not more than 25% of the whole map.

- size of starting and 2nd area should be better now. Still there should be much to do / to fight in both areas....turns should take long..

Will send the newest versions to all who got the earlier versions as well.

Feedback appreciated...
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angelito
angelito

Hero of Order
proud father of a princess
posted April 14, 2005 10:35 AM

Any new feedback about this template?

For those who are interested, version 1.4 is released since thursday with only little changes in treasure values to prevent utopias again.

Would like to get some more feedback before i will send this template to AzureMajesty and Vesuvius so that they can make it downloadable from their tourney sites.
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rychenroller
rychenroller


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted April 14, 2005 11:47 AM

Playing it for first time now, hotseat with the mrs

First impression....chainers paradise!

second impression....dont play natives, with all resources guarded bar gold, need more than 2 heroes
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LKru33
LKru33


Promising
Famous Hero
3x NFL Pick'em Champ
posted April 14, 2005 12:02 PM

I am currently playing 1.3 vs AI as I don't often find people willing to save games (with few exceptions).  I will add to this post when I am finished with the game.  As Rych stated... even wood and ore mines are guarded.  Not much in the way of loose resources unguarded either.  Still too early for me to give anything else  

Please send me 1.4 when you get a chance.  I won't be able to get to it right away, but will start it after I finish my 1.3 game.
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tigris
tigris


Supreme Hero
Supreme Noobolator
posted May 03, 2005 05:34 PM

well hello random lovers(seems this is the standard line:P)

After a conversation on the zone with Rychenroller and some other guys i tried to make some changes in the Jebus template so that it suits a more balanced and fair game.

first here are the changes:
   -the big starting zone wich originaly consisted of the main castle and two towns without fort is now separated in 3 zones.
    -1st zone has main castle+wood&ore mines and a gold mine.It is smaller and poorer than earlier
     -each of the 2 secondary zones has one town without fort, a gold mine, a wood&ore mine and 2 mines from the other resources(this means that a zone will have the crystals&gems mines, and the other will have the mercury and sulfur mines)
     -richness in these zones is average,no topes or relics there eighter, also tried to minimize conservatories
      -Guards to middle area is stronger than the original version
     -overall it's still a rich template, but IMHO lost the Castle Wars flavour and 3rd week rush will be (almost) imposible

Those interested to play/test it, plese IM Angelito, as i won't be around this week, so i asked him to e-mail it to anyone interested.(thanx again Angelito )

Feedback will be much apreciated!!


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dimis
dimis


Responsible
Supreme Hero
Digitally signed by FoG
HC SUPPORTER
posted May 10, 2005 03:48 PM

Angelito's Fiesta - version 1.4 (10 May)

My greetings to all of you.

Here are my observations while trying to play with Angelito's Fiesta, version 1.4:
In all cases I started playing against the AI. In nearly all cases I chose Inferno as my starting town. Although I really liked the maps generated, I have some oppositions with some features:

1) Ore Mines
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Usually I encounter a problem with my ore mine. It doesn't seem to be nearby my initial town. In nearly all of my experiments I couldn't reach it before day 3 of the first week. In some cases I had to fight lots of Ogres in order to be able to reach the mine during the first week. In another example on an XL map I couldn't even "see" my ore mine during the whole first week! Not to mention that in many examples my way to the mine was blocked by lots of orcs/ horde of evil eyes and things like that. Is this expected to happen? Anyway, here is my belief on wood and ore mines: I like the fact that they are guarded but I would like them by in reach at most by day 2. Not even a day later.

2) Army blocking my way
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Do I have to enter on a battle on day 1 against lots of golems / lots of Ogres / lots of harpies so as to be able to make 3-4 steps outside my initial town? Do I have to do the same thing in order to reach a basic mine such as wood / ore (sometimes even lots of Dendroid guards)?

3) Treasure Area
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
In a previous post I think it was mentioned that treasure area is next to starting area and not next to secondary (dirt) area. Well, I can not verify that because I 've generated maps where treasure area is not in reach of my starting area (although next to my opponent's) and I have to enter into secondary area so that eventually I reach trasure area. Am I the only one who's encountering that?

4) Road
~~~~~~~~
Usually the road provides no guidance on the map and in many cases it does not lead to my secondary area but instead to the Treasure Area. Is this again expected to happen?


Final comments for this post:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I 've not finished even a single game so far because I encounter that problem with ore during the first week. As a result I am not able of making a Castle on first week, although I have the money but because of the fact I don't have ore. Moreover, in an extreme scenario I wasn't even able of making Efreets because of no ore nearby. Please comment on the above because for the time being I keep generating new maps and try to break out seeking for a mere ore-mine...


Regards,
Dimis

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gnohmon
gnohmon


Adventuring Hero
posted May 13, 2005 06:38 PM

Is it possible to have a zone within a zone, with no border guards or chokepoints?

If so, one could have a town-zone inside the home-zone, containing mostly just the town and a sawmill and ore mine; and that would address these complaints.

One thing I do understand from this thread is that making a template is very difficult, and involves manipulating parts of the game that are not documented.

Just my cup of tea :-)

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tigris
tigris


Supreme Hero
Supreme Noobolator
posted May 13, 2005 07:40 PM

many templates have the in the starting zone only the wood and ore mines. e.g Panic, skirmish etc in theory you can do whatever you want with the rmg file but that thing is delicate and requires lots of time to get it right
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matkov
matkov


Hired Hero
posted May 14, 2005 06:09 PM

Angelito's Fiesta - version 1.4 (10 May)

I played a bit new template. 1vs1 computer on 180% dif.
I choosed fortress as my starting town. I must say I enjoy template very much, unfortunatelly I had unguarded scroll of fly just next to my town so getting into treasure are and stole some very strong artefacts helped me a lot.

Have a nice day.

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patriot_pulsar
patriot_pulsar


Adventuring Hero
posted May 19, 2005 11:26 AM

Angel so what about ur template is it coming out or not? And when i will finish low can u send it to me i am not sure i had it before but anyway i lost my hard drive yesterday so i dont have anything right now on pc just a game with few maps good that save of Low was on other hard drive
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Once i believe i can make impossible happen and i will beat angelito

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Sir_Stiven
Sir_Stiven


Honorable
Legendary Hero
banned
posted May 19, 2005 12:36 PM

my template is almost rdy to rock!

template name: Sandstorm

Players: 2v2

Map richness: less than average (now i hope after reduced treasure dentisity even more )

Uniques: allies share an incommon area before breaking

Break strategies: chaining for money - build expansion. Or early buy out and crash the banks for money to back up moves for example cons and hives (in middle).


Thought: to be able to help out your allie if he gets a tougher start and you need to share the resources in the 3rd area, which hopefully leads to more teamwork than a 1v1&1v1 game that usually happens when allied games plays.

will try it again in zone and then it hopefully will be able to kick off

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angelito
angelito

Hero of Order
proud father of a princess
posted June 06, 2005 01:03 PM

Thanks for this deatailed review of my template dimis. Unfortunately i didnīt noticed it sooner than today......sorry for that. Here are my responses:

Quote:

1) Ore Mines
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Usually I encounter a problem with my ore mine. It doesn't seem to be nearby my initial town. In nearly all of my experiments I couldn't reach it before day 3 of the first week. In some cases I had to fight lots of Ogres in order to be able to reach the mine during the first week. In another example on an XL map I couldn't even "see" my ore mine during the whole first week! Not to mention that in many examples my way to the mine was blocked by lots of orcs/ horde of evil eyes and things like that. Is this expected to happen? Anyway, here is my belief on wood and ore mines: I like the fact that they are guarded but I would like them by in reach at most by day 2. Not even a day later.



This is not the way it should be. The problem is, the ore and wood mines are placed in between a specific circle around your starting town. This is similar to all known templates. But for the fact, this template is full" of stuff to do in your starting area, you sometimes canīt reach them day 2 coz of the lots of fighting u have to do on your way. If these blockers are gone, u should be able to reach your wood and ore mine inbetween 3 days, thatīs how it works with all templates.
No wood/ore mine week 1 is normaly a reason for restart the game.

Quote:

2) Army blocking my way
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Do I have to enter on a battle on day 1 against lots of golems / lots of Ogres / lots of harpies so as to be able to make 3-4 steps outside my initial town? Do I have to do the same thing in order to reach a basic mine such as wood / ore (sometimes even lots of Dendroid guards)?



See above

Quote:

3) Treasure Area
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
In a previous post I think it was mentioned that treasure area is next to starting area and not next to secondary (dirt) area. Well, I can not verify that because I 've generated maps where treasure area is not in reach of my starting area (although next to my opponent's) and I have to enter into secondary area so that eventually I reach trasure area. Am I the only one who's encountering that?



Hmmm...strange....that should normaly not be the case. I changed that fact in the template, so u should have a connection to your treasure area directly (or through a 2way monolith) without traveling through your 2nd area.
I will check that again and see what happens...

Quote:

4) Road
~~~~~~~~
Usually the road provides no guidance on the map and in many cases it does not lead to my secondary area but instead to the Treasure Area. Is this again expected to happen?



This also should be a bugged map then (or u mixed up 2nd area and treasure area). If the comp creates the map correct, u should have one road from your starting town towards 2nd area (coz there is your next town). There should NOT exist a road to your treasure area, coz i didnīt placed a town there. Roads only lead to towns or to monoliths....

Quote:

Final comments for this post:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I 've not finished even a single game so far because I encounter that problem with ore during the first week. As a result I am not able of making a Castle on first week, although I have the money but because of the fact I don't have ore. Moreover, in an extreme scenario I wasn't even able of making Efreets because of no ore nearby. Please comment on the above because for the time being I keep generating new maps and try to break out seeking for a mere ore-mine...



Yes...your ore problem is strange, but it could happen coz of the reason i mentioned in first quote. What i could do, is to place 2 ore and wood mines in both starting areas, so the chance to flagg at least 1 of them is higher.
What do other members think of that solution?
And iīm thinking of placing at least 1 town in the treasure area to have a road from starting town into treasure area.

Comments please
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