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Heroes Community > Library of Enlightenment > Thread: Random Template reviews!
Thread: Random Template reviews! This thread is 3 pages long: 1 2 3 · NEXT»
rychenroller
rychenroller


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted April 14, 2005 03:05 AM

Random Template reviews!

Lets face it...more people like random these days because of template design. It frustrates me though when people limit themselves to one or two templates when with a simple explanation, the world of randoms can be fully open to everyone. So in an effort to get more people to play different templates, its time we put together some template reviews, just like you would a fixed map. Randoms will always vary though, thats the beauty of them. Sometimes you just have to come up with a different plan Feel free to add your own reviews if you think you know a template well enough

I'll start with my favorite template.

Template: Extreme

Designer: Midnight aka MidnightWraith

Richness: Medium

Theme: Big Big fights.

Basic design: Start in a random sized start zone, could be 1/10th of the map, could be 1/4. One thing will always hold true...your start zone will always have 2 gold mines and the necessary resources to build level 7/castle by the end of week 2. There is a smallish break to zone 2 (fairly easy for week1 army) where you can find resource mines lightly guarded plus a second town for that all important 1st/2nd market. Zone 2 has two breaks to a third and fourth zone where you will find two extra necro towns and substantial treasures. Zone 1 will also have a break to the desert treasure area where the real fun begins. This break is usually lots of level 7 or horde/throng of level 6 by the time you are ready to tackle it. Guards separating the 2 players 9accessible through desert area are massive (for example last game I played it was a two way monolith 800 diamond golems/80 archdeveils)

Suggested rules: Of course this is always a contentious issue but a few rules are must have:
1) No necro, obviously because the 2nd/3rd/4th towns are necro complete with all dwellings in these areas. Plus the treasure zone is necro aligned so expect to find things like 8 bone drags/10 black knights/5 ghost drags in pandora boxes. I suppose this template would be good for a massive necro war though I have never tried it.
2)No fly/d/d, also a must have due to the size of free treasures you can fly to (yes this includes wings and scroll )
3)Diplo, it will turn this map into a fest map, but if thats your thing, cool
4) Fight misplaced guards...although I dont personally see this as a rule, because if you do it, you are taking advantage of a map bug. To me its plain cheating.

Strategies: Unfortunately this template requires mass slow to defeat...so earth is a 100% must have. The only way I can see it being beaten any other way is a strong offense hero with mass haste and a fast starting creature (ie, hack, gundula with castle/inferno town, maybe dungeon/rampart).

Taking gold mines as early as possible in start area is essential, along with resource mines and second town...do this before anything else. This template is not a rush template...you will not fight until week 2, so feel free to take your time and gather your power...its not necessary to hit a horde of scorps for an earth tome in week 3...tho if you can do it, it sure can help.

This template was one of the first templates that midngight designed and was based on the old "Meeting in Muzgob" 3do template. Its a slight myth that it is all that tough...its relatively easy to get full build by end of week 2, but with no earth/slow...expect it to be hell for you

I give it 8 out of 10


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rychenroller
rychenroller


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted April 14, 2005 03:51 AM

Another review from me, coz I'm bored at work

Template: Extreme II

Designer: Midnight

Richness: Medium

Theme: More big big fights

Basic Design: E2 is much simpler in design to E1 though it differs greatly. In essence your start zone is your areas 1/2/3 with all the treasures therein. The only thing your start zone does not contain is resource mines and town 2. The start zone in E2 is ALWAYS bigger than E1 because it has a lot more to contain. Its a tricky template and sometimes its tough to differentiate between start zones fights and can be hard to level up.

Area1 this time contains 3 gold mines though they will be harder to get because of distance. Expect to see strongly guarded relics and utopias in your start zone unlike E1, also dwellings can play a major part in the key to victory. Its not unusual to have level 7 dwellings, although they will be strongly guarded. As with E1 there will be strong breaks to desert areas where you will find twoextra necro towns.

Suggested rules: As with E1 though no castle is sometimes added. For a castle player and such a big area...it is possible to have up to 5 or 6 conservatories in the starting area, creating an unfair advantage (ie, that advantage being 15 archies week4 )

Strategy: To me, E2 is a little trickier than E1, its harder to level athough chaining is more important because of your massive start area. Logistics is always an important skill though even more important on E2 and again, earth/slow is a necessity.

7 out of 10 for me.
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patriot_pulsar
patriot_pulsar


Adventuring Hero
posted April 14, 2005 02:18 PM

rych u right random maps is great but if players will make more fixed maps they even will be better
P.s myself i am mostly random player but anly because everyone learned all fixed maps so i just have no chance to win on them.

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lkru33
lkru33


Promising
Famous Hero
3x NFL Pick'em Champ
posted April 14, 2005 04:49 PM
Edited By: lkru33 on 14 Apr 2005

Here are some less detailed reviews by some memebers

Rank the Random Templates

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tigris
tigris


Supreme Hero
Supreme Noobolator
posted April 14, 2005 05:05 PM

  I remember seing you make a review for Extreme on the ToH forum too rychen at Midnight's request.But i have to admit these are more precise and complex than ever.I also tried to make some rewiews on the map heaven forum.But we all know that the Library is the place for a thread like this, so i guess this is the apropriate thread.
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rychenroller
rychenroller


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted April 14, 2005 11:27 PM

hmm, did realize that thread that L posted existed, sorry I can do some more if peeps want, in detail...
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Myctteakyshd

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lkru33
lkru33


Promising
Famous Hero
3x NFL Pick'em Champ
posted April 15, 2005 03:06 AM

Yes Rych...keep them comming   You give so much more detail.  
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rychenroller
rychenroller


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted April 19, 2005 01:11 AM
Edited By: rychenroller on 18 Apr 2005

bites the bullet

Template: Jebus Cross

Designer: Bjorn190

Richness: Very rich

Theme: ...errr put everything on the map so you dont want for anything? primarily 2v2 template though can be played 1v1

Basic Design: You start in a fairly big start zone with 2 extra towns inside your start area. These towns are set to random so anything is possible and its very easy to double build (though will you have the time) Each start zone (4 of them) leads to a decent block which is usually horde level 6 or lots level 7 (sometimes a pack if titans, archangels, golds, blacks or ancients) This break leads to a desert area filled with relics, utopias, dwellings etc. Remember this desert area can be aligned, for example...If you start as tower town, there is a possibly that the centre towns are tower too, leading to some wild rewards in boxes (3 titans, 8 giants, 10 naga queens, you get the picture) Which can in turn lead to massive unbalance.

The start area is also very very rich, there will be no problem getting level7/castle (unless dungeon/rampart/tower) with virtually no chaining required. There is also an insane amount of dwellings, hives, conservatories arties tec in start area. You certainly wont have any shortage of fights there.

Suggested rules: This is where jebus gets interesting...due to the high possibilty of unbalnce in this template, many rules are often added (no level6/7 dwellings, no hives, cons etc). My suggestion is to hell with the rules and play it how it was meant to be played, with fun and chaotically. In my opinion its no good playing it for tourney, no matter what you do, the template will give an advantage to one side. If the rmg gives one person 4 utopias and the other 4 level 7 dwellings, with a no level 7 rules, who do you think is going to win?

Strategies: Limited. Jebus is basically a rush template with no emphasis on chaining, resource management or balance. You basically get whatever you want whenever you want it. players play castle a lot to take advantage of having 3 archangels day 9 or 10 sweeping their area of relics and utopias to set themselves up for an early week3 break. This is entirely possbile due to the high level of treeasure in the start area. Hitting the break as early as possible and devouring the desert area of its treasure is the one and only goal, and to do it as quickly as possible. This is also aided by the template monster setting, which is set to weak. hence, it is entirely possble to find something like the sword of judgement guarded by lots of genies.

This template is more like a fixed map than any other random. Players are handed their map on a platter, requiring minimal skill to work the map to their advantage. While it a quick easy template, suited to newer players and players that only want a three hour game, its basic design flaws (intended or not ) make it more suited for a fun game.

For newer players or quick games...7/10
For experienced randomers looking for challenge...3/10
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LordLazy
LordLazy


Promising
Famous Hero
Wood cleaner
posted April 19, 2005 07:44 AM

what a toss rych, I gave it 1/10 in my review
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rychenroller
rychenroller


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted April 19, 2005 08:12 AM

I was just trying not to upset the masses

Tho your rating is more accurate
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Myctteakyshd

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Sir_Stiven
Sir_Stiven


Honorable
Legendary Hero
banned
posted April 20, 2005 01:09 AM

id give it a one too..

could just aswell take 12 hours rolling a dice

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rychenroller
rychenroller


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted April 20, 2005 05:35 AM bonus applied.
Edited By: angelito on 20 Apr 2005

Possibly the best random template...

Template: Blockbuster

Designer: Midnight

Richness: Medium

Theme: Its a variant of the famous 3do "block template" (2smd2/4 etc etc) though without the associated flaws. The original template had the large block between players but an offroad shortcut through only one zone. It was possible to meet your opponent through sometimes only a pack of level 4's. this popular template adjusts that flaw and creates a less random atmosphere.

Basic design: Starting in a variable sized zone you expand through a late week 1/ early week 2 break to second town. One road from start town will split, one going to area two and one going directly to your opponent. The block between players varies, though its usually a horde of unupgraded level 7 (sometimes lots of upgraded 7's that can possibly turn into a horde by week4/5) Occaisionally when playing 1.4 version you will get zounds of diamond golems which are often easier to handle.

Area 2 will have your second town plus gold mine and resource mines. It important to explore this area lateweek1/earlyweek2 to learn where your next break is, usually pack/lots of level6. This break leads to a third town and the possibility of relics/boxes/utopias. Finally one more break and you are into the treasure zone where an abundance of relics/utopias/noxes/prisons await. Its here where you gather your power in the hope to defeat your enemy.

Suggested rules: As usual it is personal choice though 2 rules stand out above all other for this template...no d/d fly. The reason is fairly obvious. whats the use of placing a massive block between you and your opponent (its quite possible to hit the break and opponents town in the same day) when you can d/d or fly right past it? Other normal random rules should apply to this template as well. Personally I believe there are only 5 gamebreakers...d/d, fly, diplo, cartographer and hillfort(not ona  rich template).

Strategies: Blockbuster is a good template for strategy, more than likely the superior player will win. Normally you have time to build and although it seems a rush template it doesnt always pan out that way. First thing you do is assess the block between you or your opponent. If you see lots of archies/titans/black (its going to be 40 or so) Then odds are you have some time to get things done, the break wont occur til early month 2. Fairly often if this is the block between players, the main fight will happen in the treasure zone. The block between players in the treasure zone is weaker than the road block in area 1, sometimes its an easier choice, though it will give much more ground to cover. Sometimes advancing on your opponent through his treasure zone with a fast hero (log/path/boots ot gloves...or all of those ) will spur him into a rash decision, maybe to attack the road block and take your town.

The other situation of course is if you get a weaker roadblock (horde of bone drags/hydras/giants/beth) Dont kid yourself, most good players will take this block in week4, only hampered if no mass slow.A couple of players I plyed on this template made the block look easy, namely Archdevil666(notmytohhandle) who took a horde of green drags mid week 3 and Antal who took lots of archangels late week 3 with Grindan as his main(he was and probably still is, an amazing player, with probably only phantom and archie in his league). Still it is doable with spells like blind, berserk, prayer etc, even some hit and running it. If this is the block and you are playing a quality player, prepare for a quicker assault. Goals you should set yourself are to have your main army assaulting the treasure zone late week 3 and retreat your hero back to main town for an early week 4 attack (if not you, then your opponent will be) Overall it is very important that you be able to get back to your town in one turn after week 4. Having a chain of heroes set up from where your main is fighting to capital will facilitate this. Use view air/earth to see the lay of the land and where your enemies heroes are massing. If you see a sudden mass of heroes around his main town and near the big block, you can be assured he is preparing to break.

This template is one of the few that rewards good play and seeking map advantage. Like all randoms it has the chance to be unbalanced depending on main hero, or relics/utopias found but as stated earlier, the good player will much more often than not, win the day.

8.5 out of 10 from me.




Edit:

Very nice and helpfull description. I think thatīs the right way to make other templates besides JEBUS interesting for newer online players.

Keep the good work going

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Myctteakyshd

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lkru33
lkru33


Promising
Famous Hero
3x NFL Pick'em Champ
posted April 20, 2005 05:29 PM

Congrats Rych!!  Hey, do you have a review in the bag for Balance?
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Leo_Lion
Leo_Lion


Honorable
Supreme Hero
The 5th Element & 6th Sense!
posted April 21, 2005 01:08 AM
Edited By: Leo_Lion on 20 Apr 2005

Can I request a review of my favourite Random Template?

Midnight Mix

I would write one myself, but I want to see what an experienced player thinks about it.

P.S. Rychen, I hope you aren't going to change your reviews or ratings based on what someone else wrote...that would be a crying shame.
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*The end to no beginning...



*Take care, Leo

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rychenroller
rychenroller


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted April 21, 2005 01:51 AM
Edited By: rychenroller on 20 Apr 2005

Leo...

The mix would be very very hard to review as it is about a dozen templates in one. When midnight made it, he took a lot of known templates and made small tweaks to them so that they are unrecognizable to random players relying on template design. In effect, you would have to do a dozen reviews in one, of all the different maps you could generate. I know a little of what you can get in the mix, but not that well Gimme some time to study it and I'll give it a crack. The others I havent had to study hehe

Re: the grade a gave jebus....the last thing I want to do is discourage people from playing random. Fact is, jebus is good for the new player (for a fast game I'd rather play panic, skirmish, balance myself) But the general sentiment is, for the experienced randomer, jebus is useless and I tend to agree.
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rychenroller
rychenroller


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted April 21, 2005 02:30 AM
Edited By: rychenroller on 20 Apr 2005

as per request ;)

Template: Balance

Designer: Zilonite

Richness: Medium (though can vary)

Theme: An emphasis placed on building and resource management rather than artie/box rush.

Basic design: Balance has a high degree of randomness (if that makes any sense). Apart from the basic template which I'll explain shortly, Balance varies greatly in richness, zone sizes, treasures etc. but a few things will always hold...Balance has no artifact above level 2 (only possible from tomb) and also no utopias. This is done to try address balance issues and create a more competitive atmosphere and closer games.

You start in a random sized start zone which contains an unforted town of the same type. From here, there are always three breaks from somewhere in your area. Two of those will be weak, doable with a week 2 army (even late week1 depending on what stack it is) The other break is always a large one, it will either be on a monolith, or guarding a desert zone. This is the quickest way to your opponent but also the toughest, the guard will be variable but usually something in the order of 100 zealots, 40 cyclops kings, 18 devils etc. This break will lead to an adjoining zone between you and your opponent and it is always desert. Sometimes it can double as the maps treasure zone, but more on that later.

Balance is interesting as, said above it can vary a hell of a lot. Players can either meet through the big block in their start zone or through zone progression (more common) Balance always contains no less than 9-11 separate zones and it is possible for players to gradually expand and meet through these zones. If the large block isnt beaten, there will be a minimum of four zones between players with the guards getting progressively harder. Monoliths are used extensively here, expect to see most or all of them used (quite often a nightmare if playing 2.2/3.2/4.0) Balance can really turn into a maze and having a hero chain set up is very important. Any time from the start of week 3, it is possible to meet your opponent.

There can also be a player connection between only 3 zones with moderate guards. This break tends to sometimes be harder to find but it works out the quickest way, beatable in week3 (think 20 cavs, 7 beths, etc) Overall there are quite a few ways to meet, depending on what path you decide to take. While the big block quickest, and leads to the shared treasure area, its also the hardest way. The treasure can either be the desert zone itself, or a small area leading off that. It often has many hives, dwellings, gold mines and is necro aligned (the dweelings, creatures from boxes will always be necro) But as stated above, never higher than a level 2 artifact. I personally like this desigh, it makes hitting those small power ups (marletto, mercenary camp etc) quite important in early game. Remember this is a SHARED treasure zone, both players have access to it, it all depends on who is faster, and there is only one entrance...through the desert zone.

Its very rare on Balance to get 1 of every resource mine. Mines are scattered throughout the template in random places making resource management important. There is no "go get the crystal mine" type of target, markets are important, so is chaining to distant resources. Balance can also lend itself to scout wars, depending on where you meet and the other thing I like about Balance is that it is entirely possible to use a MAGIC hero with almost 0% possibilty of red ord or recanters (from tomb only) It makes a warlock rush a viable tactic, with heroes like jeddite/alamar/solmyr useful. Dont be afraid to use these heroes and develop a big spellpower. I actually got a win using Sephinroth in week 3, with 12 spell power and a big bolt (12 is a good stat for this template).

Suggested rules: Rules are less necessary on a template with no relics, it will be much tougher to get spells like fly/d/d etc (still possible from scrolls though) My only actual rules on this template would be no diplo. cartographer and level4/5 scrolls. Leave those magic heroes in...this is a template where you actually use em!

Strategies: As stated above, be careful here with your resources. The double break to your opponent quite often means a meeting somewhere else on the map so be prepared with a hero chain/view air/earth to cover any event. Sometimes in start zone you have to search high and low for your other breaks, dont be afraid to go offroad.

This template actually supports underground as well though I dont recommend it. It tends to send the template crazy, and starting under, it can be tough to get mines, it is often a maze with no big spaces to collect resources.

Its a great template, best played Large no under. I give it 8 out of 10.
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zsa
zsa


Famous Hero
posted April 21, 2005 06:32 AM
Edited By: zsa on 21 Apr 2005

Hehe, smashing review rychen. I played around 5-6 games on balance medium no under so I'll add a bit to what you said if you don't mind.

1. If with no under, the big stack/stacks between the two players may not be in desert zone (it might just be a set of 2 undergound ways connecting the two regions).

2. Agree that undergound can be a bit tricky sometimes. I got inferno under once on that template and I had a confined area in which I could move and expand, so it can be sometimes troublesome for the Underground player, but no huge imbalances, it is still playable.

3. This map provides a really easy double build even though the map richness is not as big as other templates, getting to week 2 and hitting them banks and treasuries + chaining for treasure chests and resources can provide more than enough for a late week 2, early week 3 double build.

4. I personally like this template, but it too, can get repetitive.

5. As rules for this template I agree with mostly what you said No diplo necro, Carto, hillfort and lvl 4-5 scrolls. The exclusion of DD and fly is imo unfair for this template since you cannot get it anywhere except your mage guild, and it won't give you a big advantage in stealing relics, jumping over huge guards and stuff like that. It does provide mobility and the possibility of a surprise attack, but hey it's a lvl 5 spell, it's supposed to be able to do some nasty stuff. I remember a game on cube where I was praying for implo at lvl 5 and got fly. Great thanks, what am i supposed to do with this .


I wish there was a template out there, something in the spirit of the Ring Template, with a few tweaks for treasure (removing topias and relics) and race selection (removing conflux and nec). I am tired of all them closed maps with break into treasure zones :\. Now a template like ring, that would really be interactive .

If you can do it rychen, try and do an overview of Cube. That's another cool template, IMO better than extreme or blockbuster.


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rychenroller
rychenroller


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted April 21, 2005 06:38 AM

Quote:
Hehe, smashing review rychen. I played around 5-6 games on balance medium no under so I'll add a bit to what you said if you don't mind.

1. If with no under, the big stack/stacks between the two players may not be in desert zone (it might just be a set of 2 undergound ways connecting the two regions)


Np at all , thats what this threads about. if I got something wrong, I expect to be pulled up on it

I deliberately avoided reviewing "balance with under" purely because I very rarely play it. But you are dead right about the big stack block. Under really does tweak this template around a bit.
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LordLazy
LordLazy


Promising
Famous Hero
Wood cleaner
posted April 21, 2005 01:21 PM

your reviews are very detailed, good work rych I got requests too I would like to see a review of the template I enjoy the most: Panic, and also of templates like 2smd/4, 8xm8 and other interesting originals

wishes and regards

LL
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lkru33
lkru33


Promising
Famous Hero
3x NFL Pick'em Champ
posted April 21, 2005 02:40 PM

Another great review!!! Great job Rych  After playing this template (balance) many times, I still could not come up with that amount of info and detail.  Keep up the good work.

I know there is a waiting list now... but when possible, I would like to add Angelito's Fiesta (currently ver. 1.4) to the que.  There are some reviews of earlier versions found here.
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