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| Thread: Let's talk about Torosar in HotA | |
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phoenix4ever
Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
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posted April 24, 2025 08:04 PM |
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Let's talk about Torosar in HotA
Okay I need to get this of my chest, Torosar is probably the most baffling hero in H3 including HotA.
He starts with Mysticism and Tactics, Mysticism is understandable as all human Alchemists start with it and Tactics is not a bad skill. HOWEVER he specialises in Ballista, which means he NEEDS Artillery, to be able to control his ballista. I guess you can just let the ballista run "autopilot", but then you risk it shoots at blinded targets, which can be deadly. So either get Artillery or have no specialty, I guess. 
So with Mysticsm, Tactics and possibly Artillery Torosar now has 2-3 skills already.
Besides them he also needs the obligatory skills like Earth Magic, Air Magic, Wisdom, Logistics, Offense and Armorer. Archery is very good for Tower and his Ballista, so we'll pick Archery as well.
In HotA Learning is a very good skill, especially if you allow more than 8 skills per hero. It will even make his Ballista do even more damage, as Torosar reaches higher levels. So we'll pick that as well.
Lastly Pathfinding became a very good skill in HotA, even if you have Expert Fly or Pathfinding Boots, as it lowers movement cost, when wandering off road, meaning you basically get another Logistics. So let's pick that as well.
To sum it up Torosar has now picked 12 skills, which he pretty much needs! Only Mysticism and Tactics could perhaps be left out, but since he starts with them, that's not an option, so he really needs 12 skills!
So in my experience Torosar is the hero that needs the most skills in the game and it's really weird he starts without Artillery, when specialising in Ballista.
So what is your experience with Torosar and which skills would you pick for him??
Or do you do like me and allow more than 8 skills per hero? (I currently allow 11 skills, though skill progression can be slow, especially for important skills like Wisdom and magic schools, but 8 skills is definitely not enough, especially with heroes like Torosar around. It's just annoying I can only visually see 8 skills on the hero sheet, even though 11 is max.)
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bloodsucker
Legendary Hero
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posted April 25, 2025 07:45 AM |
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Well, first I think you need to clarify you're just talking about that niche that is HotA mod, in most WoG/Era mods you can deal with the problem by "forgetting" the skills you don't want or going above the skill limit with some trick.
Then you need to accept that in this game there are Crags and Serenas and it's ok, cause you need heroes to fight and heroes to visit windmills. Torosar is a bad "visit windmills" hero that sometimes can come with a ballista, leave him in tavern or dismiss him when he finds the end of a path it will take a few days to get back from, that's it.
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phoenix4ever
Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
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posted April 25, 2025 08:11 AM |
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But what if you main him, Bloodsucker?
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Ghost
Undefeatable Hero
Therefore I am
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posted April 25, 2025 02:25 PM |
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Game Boy H2 showed 6 skills.. I think that right, no many players picked Wisdom, but H3 became 8 skills.. So it means Wisdom is valuable.. And then H4 can be 5 skills, but maximum and all-times best 8 different skills, so 5 of 8.. I like 6 skills, and 50-200 different skills, so you can't always get an Earth.. Don't forget HotA made by ERA..
Torosar is sucking hero, of course!
@bloodsucker
Phoenix4ever can't play WoG/ERA, thus ineffective Slow, Berserk, Blind, etc but Phoenix4ever doesn't know HotA environement in WoG/ERA.. I meant objects, monsters, and then option gives 10 skills to Phoenix4ever.. When WoG/ERA can play SoD -, WoG/ERA -, and new HotA and MoP engine.. A old WoG 3.58f was only SoD and WoG.. Ok 
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Fight MWMs - stand teach
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Hourglass
Supreme Hero
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posted April 25, 2025 03:37 PM |
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Personally I think the lack of Artillery is actually making him to be the most useful hero that starts with Ballista. Sure, you don't main him, but in terms of strictly talking of "what works, and what you should do to get strong" the Ballista heroes aren't really the top dogs anyway. Why would you main Christian, Ranloo or Norton, for example? If it is about challenge, what's wrong that a hero start with somewhat "unoptimized" build?
Torosar is among the more appealing heroes in the early game tavern. You instantly get ballista, and Tactics allows you to do fights that could be risky to do without. Mysticism is backed up with always useful Magic arrow, making sure that you can spam it much better that was possible in SOD. When you think about it, Torosar easily up there when you think about clearing an early ranged guard, for example. The power boost to your army is also instant, not something you can say about gold heroes. Sure, gold heroes and other supportive perks scale better to the late game, but in terms of thinking about day 1 and how to get the game rolling, Torosar is super helpful and one the better heroes you can get.
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purerogue3
Known Hero
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posted April 25, 2025 04:59 PM |
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It's been along time since I've agreed with something hourglass said, but if really shows the designers were gods (in comparison to us at least)
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phoenix4ever
Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
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posted April 25, 2025 07:25 PM |
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@Hourglass
Well I guess he is decent for early days, but what about after the first week?
Also again how do you fit 12 skills, when 8 is max? Which skills would you pick for him?
@Purerogue
Sorry mate, but I disagree with you, there could definitely have been better design decisions by original developers. (Looking at you Earth Magic, Cloak of the Undead King and Wizard's Well, Bloodlust specialty and Fire Immune creatures, Melodia's "Uberluck" and Gold and Black Dragons Resurrection immunity for example.)
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Hourglass
Supreme Hero
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posted April 25, 2025 08:39 PM |
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phoenix4ever said:
@Hourglass
Well I guess he is decent for early days, but what about after the first week?
Also again how do you fit 12 skills, when 8 is max? Which skills would you pick for him?
Secondary heroes are more or less always replaceable, so Torosar is no exception there. After first week you're likely already dealing with enemies that are not safe to approach with low level hero. Torosar isn't main potential, so why see the trouble of leveling him up? Torosar is exceptionally good at certain point of game, something that cannot be said about many other heroes - look no further than other Tower heroes; Josephine, Theodorus, Serena etc are not good heroes to be used as main, and there's no need to stress how they would scale as you can always find someone better in tavern. They can play a role at some games, but the point is that Torosar is widely more useful in vast majority of games you would play.
So, the question of what skills you would pick doesn't really make that much sense here, if the point is to use him as a secondary hero. If you would for some reason to use Torosar as main, I would advise to not stress about the fact that he has ballista specialty - you don't need Artillery for him, just go for the standard build with good overall skills such as Earth, Wisdom, Air, Logistics, Offence, oh and the new Learning is busted so take it too. Note that many heroes end up not benefiting from their specialty, and can still do very well. Shakti/Ivor like heroes with super busted skills are really good even without considering their specialty, and even heroes that don't get as much as praise like Tankred, Fiur and Krellion will grow very strong without ever caring about their own specialties.
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phoenix4ever
Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
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posted April 25, 2025 09:07 PM |
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Hmm I get your point about forgetting about their specialty, I just don't really like it, when that is in fact what makes them special.
I always pick random starting hero, (VS AI) so eventually Torosar will end up being my main. It would be boring to me to main Neela in every single Tower game, even though I understand it makes most sense in a competitive environment.
Btw. you did'nt pick Armorer for Torosar, but Learning instead? You really think Learning is better than Armorer?
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Rimgrabber
Promising
Famous Hero
Voice in Gelu's Head
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posted April 25, 2025 11:52 PM |
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I will add that artillery is actually a really strong ability on secondary heroes that you might want to use to defend your towns since it lets you control the arrow towers and get the first cast no matter what. So Torosar would be much better if he started with artillery instead of mysticsism, especially since he would then be even more effective at taking early game fights with his ballista. But as others have said, he's not really main material anyway.
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Ghost
Undefeatable Hero
Therefore I am
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posted April 26, 2025 09:44 AM |
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Edited by Ghost at 10:07, 26 Apr 2025.
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Artillery for PRO.. You can't play hit & run, etc You don't watch Twitch.. But I don't play with Artillery, esp. in SoD and HotA.. In WoG/ERA Artillery is so too very pussy OP.. I take Artillery, thus one shoot causes -1 speed.. The most OP, when two shoots cause -2 speed.. I played against Zombies were 1 speed  I won the battle without hit & run, etc when first week, etc Artillery does more damage than HotA.. So 10 Artilleries x damage, etc But without skill and esp. specialty, artillery is worthless in WoG/ERA.. Why? WoG/ERA is a "tutorial" and/or "lesson".. It by you learn hit & run, and then goes to "impossible" task in SoD and/or HotA.. Because longer game time..
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Fight MWMs - stand teach
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bloodsucker
Legendary Hero
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posted April 26, 2025 12:36 PM |
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phoenix4ever said:
I always pick random starting hero, (VS AI) so eventually Torosar will end up being my main.
And now you mentioned the "real" problem. As I said "in this game there are Crags and Serenas and it's ok". You can hire eight heroes, if your starting hero isn't that good, choose another.
Now, if you insist in using a bicycle to cross a river, YOU'RE GOING TO GET WET!
P.S. The fact that all Tower's pool doesn't provide for a single "Crag", that really is a problem. You need to trust your tavern will provide for a generic barbarian or beastmaster in time to be useful and that isn't exactly guaranteed.
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Hourglass
Supreme Hero
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posted April 26, 2025 01:07 PM |
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phoenix4ever said:
Btw. you did'nt pick Armorer for Torosar, but Learning instead? You really think Learning is better than Armorer?
It helps you grow fast, building up some good tempo. Despite being a good skill, at least currently speaking Armorer just doesn't match that.
Rimgrabber said:
I will add that artillery is actually a really strong ability on secondary heroes that you might want to use to defend your towns since it lets you control the arrow towers and get the first cast no matter what.
Gotta say the more I play the game, the more unnecessary the ability to control the tower does feel. I think everyone has had that epic battle that you have by being your back against the wall in a defensive town battle where you're the massive underdog. There, the ability to control the towers is super useful, even fight winning. And I feel the love for the Artillery bonus comes from those experiences. However, then there are the fights you just aren't supposed to win, and some fights that are simply a breeze. So, in majority of fights, the ability provided by the Artillery doesn't really end up really making a difference.
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phoenix4ever
Legendary Hero
Heroes is love, Heroes is life
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posted April 26, 2025 02:02 PM |
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Yeah Artillery when defending towns, is nice, but when you have TP and Advanced Earth, that does'nt really matter anyway, as you can just defend all towns with TP and only really need your main hero for town defending. (Did I mention how OP TP is, I guess I don't need to, you should all be aware of that by now.)
@Bloodsucker
As I said maining Neela or a Barbarian or a Beastmaster every time, becomes boring very quickly, so I guess I'll just use my bike to cross the river. 
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