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| Thread: Suggestion for WoG team |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 · NEXT» |
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DoddTheSlayer
Promising
Famous Hero
Banned from opening threads
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posted July 14, 2003 03:13 PM |
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Suggestion for WoG team
I have noticed one problem with wogified maps in that with certain fixed maps there are some things that get randomised the need to stay in the game e.g. With Vengence allies everyone has a pandora box with Log, wisdom plus other things and if one or two players dont get it and the others do it kind of messes up the map.
So i was wondering how much work is involved in making an option where you can select objects on the map so that they cant be changed? This would help map_makers who put certain items in there map for a specific purpose.
What do you think.
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Retaliation is for the foolish. Silence is wisdom
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UncleJR
Adventuring Hero
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posted July 14, 2003 07:12 PM |
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Absolutely agree!
Plus, there was one other thing I noticed, and was wondering if it's a "feature".
I like to play at the 200 pct level (because I'm a conceited sort, and enjoy getting my head handed to me on a regular basis. lol)
However, after I wogofy a map, it starts out with the resources and gold set at the "normal" level. Does WOG automatically reset the game to 100 pct difficulty?
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Huh?
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Draco
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted July 14, 2003 10:51 PM |
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as for the resources, i beleive there is a setting for giving you resources at the beggining of the game, i remember turning it on, but i dont know where, one of the 3 pages i assume. check em out when you start a game. wog options button
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fnord
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted July 14, 2003 11:27 PM |
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Quote:
Plus, there was one other thing I noticed, and was wondering if it's a "feature".
I like to play at the 200 pct level (because I'm a conceited sort, and enjoy getting my head handed to me on a regular basis. lol)
However, after I wogofy a map, it starts out with the resources and gold set at the "normal" level. Does WOG automatically reset the game to 100 pct difficulty?
Yes, as Draco suggests, there's an option that sets starting resources. Check on the first page of WoG Options and if "First Money" is selected, turn it off.
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fnord
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted July 14, 2003 11:41 PM |
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Quote:
I have noticed one problem with wogified maps in that with certain fixed maps there are some things that get randomised the need to stay in the game e.g. With Vengence allies everyone has a pandora box with Log, wisdom plus other things and if one or two players dont get it and the others do it kind of messes up the map.
So i was wondering how much work is involved in making an option where you can select objects on the map so that they cant be changed? This would help map_makers who put certain items in there map for a specific purpose.
What do you think.
Pandora's Boxes aren't replaced by WoGify.
As for other objects, we do plan on adding a new option that would let you choose to replace objects or not on a given map, as well as a few other things to make customizing wogified maps easier for players and mapmakers. We also hope to be able to prevent quest artifacts from being replaced.
However, I can't see any way to select specific objects on a map to not replace while still replacing others. The replacement gets quite complicated with different objects having different footprints, meaning that only certain new objects can replace certain old objects, but in any case, the number of extra options to allow this sort of customization would take up too much space (and probably be overly complicated as well). We may run short of space in WoG options as it is with all the new scripts and options that are being added.
Perhaps the types of objects that *may* be replaced with a given scripted object could be included in the right-click information of each object option. That way a player would have a better idea of what's going on and could choose not to select certain new objects.
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DoddTheSlayer
Promising
Famous Hero
Banned from opening threads
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posted July 15, 2003 10:44 AM |
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I had a thought. If instead of putting a specific artifact on the map that i want to stay in the game (Lets say because its for a seers quest) If i put a random creature stack on its own containing the requred artifact, would this guarantee that it will be in the game after wogification?
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Retaliation is for the foolish. Silence is wisdom
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fnord
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted July 15, 2003 10:54 AM |
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Quote:
I had a thought. If instead of putting a specific artifact on the map that i want to stay in the game (Lets say because its for a seers quest) If i put a random creature stack on its own containing the requred artifact, would this guarantee that it will be in the game after wogification?
For 3.58, we <I>are</I> changing the script to check if an artifact is enabled or not. It seems that any quest hut artifact is automatically set as "disabled" by the game (so it won't show up randomly) which means we'll be able to avoid replacing those.
For now, I would suggest you either diable artifact replacement, put the artifact in a Pandora's Box (since they're <I>not</I> currently replaced by WoGify), or put the artifact in an event (perhaps in front of a treasure chest that the monster is guarding).
Putting the artifact on a monster stack only works if the monster stack isn't replaced and the only way to guarantee that is to disable the new wog monsters option.
I think the Pandora's Box would be the simplest solution for now.
Another note: only relics are replaced by the three new WoG hero artifacts (Magic Wand, Gold Tower Arrow, Monster's Power), but other artifacts may be replaced by Commander Artifacts. So if you're NOT playing with Commanders and have that option disabled, you wouldn't have to worry unless the artifact is a relic.
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DoddTheSlayer
Promising
Famous Hero
Banned from opening threads
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posted July 15, 2003 11:04 AM |
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Thanks. I like the event idea. WoG is great. It is like making fixed maps into random maps. So many tactical options with this game that everyone can have specialised tactics.
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Retaliation is for the foolish. Silence is wisdom
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Draco
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted July 15, 2003 04:02 PM |
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I have a question.. or a idea. Is it possible to allow multiple builds in a castle in 1 town, i.e you can build two low level buildings, tavern/blacksmith, but you can only build 1 creature dwelling/citidel/castle/capitol per turn?
do you understand what im asking here?
this way you could say on day one buy your blacksmuith and marketplace, or a orc dwelling, day two mage guild and town hall, or a roc dwelling. ect... this way when you take new towns you wouldnt need to spend forever building, and you would still be limited at the start with resources.
important buildings like citidel would take more time to build so it would take all your workers. same with max level buildings, i.e. behemouth dwelling takes more work to make then a tavern so you can only build 1 building if you get that.
my suggestion for 2 build/day buildings are. tavern, mage guild lvl 1-3, blacksmith, marketplace, town hall, city hall, level 1,2,3,4 dwellings (upgrades take full day themselves)(basicaly everything except for the botom row of buildings and the citidel/castle/capitol
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DoddTheSlayer
Promising
Famous Hero
Banned from opening threads
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posted July 15, 2003 04:13 PM |
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Lol just how much like homm 4 do you want WoG to be?
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Retaliation is for the foolish. Silence is wisdom
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Draco
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted July 15, 2003 07:01 PM |
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you cant build 2 buildings in the same day on h4.... unless im mistaken
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Vlaad
Admirable
Legendary Hero
ghost of the past
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posted July 16, 2003 04:58 PM |
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Fortunately...
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DoddTheSlayer
Promising
Famous Hero
Banned from opening threads
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posted July 18, 2003 01:33 AM |
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I have found a problem with a map i made when i wogify.
I have taken DD and fly out of the game but am able to stop myself or the comp getting the fly spell.
It is strange because there is no event in the game telling me when i get the spell, it just appears in my spellbook. Does anyone know wich features i should disable to stop this happening? My map no good until i can resolve this.
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Retaliation is for the foolish. Silence is wisdom
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fnord
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted July 18, 2003 05:07 AM |
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Quote:
I have found a problem with a map i made when i wogify.
I have taken DD and fly out of the game but am able to stop myself or the comp getting the fly spell.
It is strange because there is no event in the game telling me when i get the spell, it just appears in my spellbook. Does anyone know wich features i should disable to stop this happening? My map no good until i can resolve this.
There's a couple of bugs in the spell-banning code in 3.57f.
In the first version of 3.57f (the patch to 3.57), the WoG Options is setting spell banning and overriding the map's internal settings. So if you ban a spell in the map but not in the WoG options, the spell will become "un-banned".
The 3.57f allinon1.zip includes a script update that fixes the first problem.
The other bug is with Pandora's Boxes, and I believe this is why you're getting the banned spells.
Here's how it works:
1. There's no way (currently) to check the contents of Pandora's Box or to change its contents.
2. If Pandora's Box is going to give spells, it will give them to a hero *unless* the hero already knows the spell.
3. Therefore, when you visit a Pandora's Box and have selected spell-banning for it and for the spells in question (in this case, Fly), the script:
a) checks a hero's current knowledge of Fly when the hero "visits" the box (before any fights, treasures, spells are given etc.) and stores it in a variable;
b) the hero is then given the spell (temporarily...);
b) after the guardians (if any) are fought, the Box may give the hero a bunch of spells. "All spells of one element" is a fairly common box result on random maps. But since I can't check which bonus is given, I just assume it *could* be spells and *could* include the banned spells;
c) since the hero has already been given the banned spells (temporarily), any spells given by the Box *won't* be given;
d) after the Pandora's Box visit, the script checks if the hero had the spell before or not. If he didn't, and the banning is enabled, the spell is removed.
As far as I could tell, the problem is that I was using temporary (reusable) variables (low-numbered "v" variables) in the script to store the hero's prior knowledge of the banned movement spells.
When I originally wrote it, I was thinking that nothing would occur between the pre-visit and post-visit Pandora's Box triggers, but when there are guardians, that means a battle, and battle scripts may be run.
One or more of these battle scripts is no doubt using the low-numbered v variables that are designated "temporary" for WoGify purposes, thus it's changing the value and resulting in my script thinking the hero knew the spell before. This check for a known spell is needed in case a mapmaker purposely gives one of these spells to a hero in an event or something.
I <I>have</I> fixed this problem but it's part of the updated Map Options script for 3.58 that currently uses a few new ERM features and wouldn't work in 3.57f.
However, the spell-banning part for Pandora's Box doesn't use any new features. To solve the problem, I simply reserved several "permanent" v-variables so they wouldn't be changed during the battle by other scripts.
I could copy the revised Pandora's Box banning code to the old Map Options (script25.erm) but everyone who played your map would need to have the script to guarantee they wouldn't run into this problem in your map.
If you want to send me your email, I can send you an updated script25.erm that should fix the banning bug. If not, the bug will be fixed in 3.58 which may not be released until November or later (or possibly earlier).
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DoddTheSlayer
Promising
Famous Hero
Banned from opening threads
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posted July 18, 2003 05:20 AM |
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Thank you. I will wait for 3.58 . I know nothing about Erm at the moment, I am worried that if i mess with it that i will not be compatible with other players. I am a bit confused as to why players have been given access to it.
One other thing, i also found that the new enhanced Eagle eye ability cause the same problem. Will 3.58 fix this also?
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Retaliation is for the foolish. Silence is wisdom
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fnord
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted July 19, 2003 01:07 AM |
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Quote:
Thank you. I will wait for 3.58 . I know nothing about Erm at the moment, I am worried that if i mess with it that i will not be compatible with other players. I am a bit confused as to why players have been given access to it.
One other thing, i also found that the new enhanced Eagle eye ability cause the same problem. Will 3.58 fix this also?
You mean you're confused why players are given access to ERM?
This is because ERM is the heart of WoG is, and at a basic level, ERM is a very sophisticated Tool Box.
There are quite a few WoG features, "blank" objects, new creatures, Commanders some other "hard-coded" features, etc. that aren't part of ERM, but a lot of the WoGify features are all ERM scripts.
The easy access for users to ERM and to being able to change or replace scripts means the game is a) very customizable, and b) very easy to update parts of it (at least in theory) and c) the scripts are learning tools for people interested in ERM. They can easily load the scripts, read the comments and see how things are done. A number of the newer team members writing scripts probably got started this way before being "recruited" by the team.
For multiplayer games, scripts do not have to be the same on both computers. Only the scripts on the hosting computer will be used and they will be saved as part of the same game file, much the same way that only the hosting player needs to have the map to be played.
As for Eagle Eye, I'm not too sure. Could you clarify exactly what's happening here? I need to know:
1. Are you playing the allinon1.zip of 3.57f or the updated patch (patching 3.57) version of 3.57f since some scripts did get updated in the final allinon1?
2. Is the map random (created in the game) or a regular map or custom map?
3. Are you disabling Fly in the map itself?
4. Are you disabling Fly in the WoG Options?
5. Is it offering Fly as one of the spells or are you finding the hero just has Fly after being offered different spells?
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DoddTheSlayer
Promising
Famous Hero
Banned from opening threads
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posted July 19, 2003 03:12 AM |
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The banned spells that i mention are all disabled in the map specs and in the WoG options. This is using a fixed map that i have made, and some of these spells are showing up with the enhanced Eagle Eye skill. Notably Armageddon which is definately a no for my games.
The fly spell is a different matter. I just happened to notice it in my spell book without any event informing me that i had gained it and also the A.I. was using DD, another banned spell, which for this specially made map is a disaster since by week 3 his stats are between 30 and 40, sometimes 50.
Hope this is enough info. Just ask if not.
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Retaliation is for the foolish. Silence is wisdom
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fnord
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted July 19, 2003 10:51 AM |
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Quote:
The banned spells that i mention are all disabled in the map specs and in the WoG options. This is using a fixed map that i have made, and some of these spells are showing up with the enhanced Eagle Eye skill. Notably Armageddon which is definately a no for my games.
The fly spell is a different matter. I just happened to notice it in my spell book without any event informing me that i had gained it and also the A.I. was using DD, another banned spell, which for this specially made map is a disaster since by week 3 his stats are between 30 and 40, sometimes 50.
Hope this is enough info. Just ask if not.
Okay, thanks. If you're using the first version of 3.57f (the update) then there was a bug that essentially reversed the status of any spells disabled in both Map Options and WoG Options. This could account for Fly showing up. It's been fixed in the allinon1.zip of 3.57f. However there's also the Pandora's Box that will be fixed in 3.58.
As for Armageddon (and any other spells banned in the map that can't be banned by WoG options), these aren't checked by most scripts. The Secondary Skill Boost script was coded in a way that makes it difficult to edit without rewriting it and it was written by someone who's since left the WoG Team. Your best bet for now would be to ban Eagle Eye from the map entirely or not use that script.
I'm not sure if this issue can be addressed for that script in 3.58 but there's likely to be a new skill boost script that will work differently with some skills and similarly with others and this should be a viable alternative when there are problems.
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DoddTheSlayer
Promising
Famous Hero
Banned from opening threads
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posted July 19, 2003 09:46 PM |
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Ah i didnt know that there were two 3.57f versions.
How do i know if i have the latest or not.
I still dont get it with pandora boxes because all the boxes on my map are customised to give specific things which they have never yet failed to do. so are you talking about pandora boxes on random maps, because the boxes on my map are not giving me any problems. I still have yet to figure out just where the fly spell is coming from.
I am going to monitor my next game very closely to find out
how it is appearing in my spell book.
Has anyony else out there reported this same problem?
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Retaliation is for the foolish. Silence is wisdom
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fnord
Promising
Famous Hero
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posted July 19, 2003 10:52 PM |
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Quote:
Ah i didnt know that there were two 3.57f versions.
How do i know if i have the latest or not.
I still dont get it with pandora boxes because all the boxes on my map are customised to give specific things which they have never yet failed to do. so are you talking about pandora boxes on random maps, because the boxes on my map are not giving me any problems. I still have yet to figure out just where the fly spell is coming from.
I am going to monitor my next game very closely to find out
how it is appearing in my spell book.
Has anyony else out there reported this same problem?
To check your WoG version, right click on Credits on the main WoG screen. After the version number it shows the date it was built on. The first version of 3.57f (the one you would have it you updated from 3.57) has a February 18, 2003 date. The newer version that comes with the allinon1.zip has a May 15, 2003 date.
The bug with Pandora's boxes means that they'll appear to work fine, but if there are guardians of the box and a fight occurs, the Hero may end up with some of the banned adventure spells.
Also, for the script included with the February build of 3.57f, on a custom map, if you disabled adventure spells (e.g., Fly) and also banned Fly in WoG options, the spell would instead be enabled on the map rather than disabled. I'm fairly certain this was corrected in the May build of 3.57f, but the guardians/combat issue still wasn't.
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