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Heroes Community > Library of Enlightenment > Thread: 1 on 1 fights - who is the strongest?
Thread: 1 on 1 fights - who is the strongest? This thread is 2 pages long: 1 2 · NEXT»
csarmi
csarmi


Supreme Hero
gets back
posted June 15, 2004 11:33 PM
Edited By: csarmi on 15 Jun 2004

1 on 1 fights - who is the strongest?

Level 7, for example.

The creature is supported with a level 1 hero with 0 attack skill, 0 defense skill, no spells, no usable secondary skills and is equipped with morale and luck negating artifacts.

What I am particulary interested is: what is the probability of the Archangel beating the Ancient Behemoth, and why?

I mean, what is the correct play.

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gorman
gorman


Promising
Legendary Hero
Been around since before 2003
posted June 16, 2004 01:59 AM

There are already threads on this topic, if you need help finding ONE of them just ask one of the Mods.
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When all else fails... Take notes.... ALL the time... ESPECIALLY when playing D&D.... or Pokemon in my case

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doomnezeu
doomnezeu


Supreme Hero
Miaumiaumiau
posted June 16, 2004 08:36 AM

well, without luck, morale and the rest, the AB should win 100% of times.



And he does, too
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csarmi
csarmi


Supreme Hero
gets back
posted June 16, 2004 09:50 AM

That's not the correct answer.

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doomnezeu
doomnezeu


Supreme Hero
Miaumiaumiau
posted June 16, 2004 09:59 AM

well, i have made a small map not long ago for testing, and i tested this battle many times then.

And the AB won every time.
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csarmi
csarmi


Supreme Hero
gets back
posted June 16, 2004 10:04 AM
Edited By: csarmi on 16 Jun 2004

Then you played it wrong. Or, your heroes did not have 0/0 in attack/defense.

With correct play, the AB has better chance, but not 100%.

Also, Archdevils have almost 50% chance to defeat the Behemoths, while Titans have 100%.

My questions:
1, What is the optimal play in AD-AB fight?
2, What is the optimal play in AA-AB fight?

http://www.math.bme.hu/~csarmasz/heroes3/level7.h3m

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kwahraps
kwahraps


Adventuring Hero
posted June 16, 2004 04:52 PM

The game engine is predicated on speed.
Therefore, if you eliminate morale and spells, your Ancient Behemoths can never make the first strike.  

Meanwhile, ArchDevils will wait, let the ABs move, then get 2 strikes in before the AB's can retaliate.

1 on 1 is not very realistic.  How many times has that situation come up for you????

Leading a full compliment of troops is another thread.

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csarmi
csarmi


Supreme Hero
gets back
posted June 16, 2004 07:43 PM

This is meant to be a tactical thread with interesting - even mathematical - problems.

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kwahraps
kwahraps


Adventuring Hero
posted June 16, 2004 08:42 PM

Does the 80% defense reduction by the Ancient Behemoth work on the first attack, or is it for all subsequent attacks????

An Archangel with 30 Attack, 30 Defense, 250 health, and a 50 point attack would win every time against an Ancient Behemoth with 19, 19, 300, and 30-50 damage.

Angel waits on first turn, Behemoth closes in.

Angel attacks for (1+((30-19)*0.05))*50 or 77.5 damage.

Behemoth retaliates for (1+((19-6)*0.05))*(random amount between 30-50, but let's take 50 for argument sake) = 82.5

Angel attacks again for 77.5.
Behemoth retaliates for 82.5

Behemoth makes first attack for 82.5 (165 total damage)
Angel retaliates for 77.5 ((232.5 total damage)

Angel attacks for 77.5 and kills Behemoth (310 damage done)

Even with max damage, AA beats AB

Also, AB would beat Arch Devils, despite that Arch Devils getting in two attacks before the AB even go.  I believe average damage of an AD is 47.25 per attack, and the Behemoths do 66.8, so it takes 3 attacks to take out a devil.  By that third hit, Devils would have done an average of 283.5 damage, so with luck, they might be able to win, but on average, they should lose.

I hope the math is accurate.  I'm still not sure where you are heading with this . . .


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csarmi
csarmi


Supreme Hero
gets back
posted June 16, 2004 09:50 PM

Neither the math is accurate, nor the way you play the fights. :-)

Let me help you a bit.
1st, are you sure of that AA damage?
2nd, the AB's average damage of 204 (not 200.4) should ring you a bell.

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viking
viking


Known Hero
Rock'n'Roll
posted June 16, 2004 09:58 PM
Edited By: viking on 16 Jun 2004

Good try, but 82.5 times 3 isn't 165 and it was said that the hero has a negative morale and luck, so there is no way the AA is going to win. When AA retailates, he only does 20% damage when attacked by AB.
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One powerful hero is good, two is better

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csarmi
csarmi


Supreme Hero
gets back
posted June 16, 2004 11:01 PM

????????????

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viking
viking


Known Hero
Rock'n'Roll
posted June 16, 2004 11:02 PM

Quote:
????????????


Is that for me?
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One powerful hero is good, two is better

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csarmi
csarmi


Supreme Hero
gets back
posted June 17, 2004 10:40 AM
Edited By: csarmi on 17 Jun 2004

Quote:
Quote:
????????????


Is that for me?


Yes for you. There is nothing that would make the slightest sense in your last reply.

Quote:
Good try, but 82.5 times 3 isn't 165


Mathematically correct, but no one said that 82.5*3=165

Quote:
and it was said that the hero has a negative morale and luck


No one said that.

Quote:
so there is no way the AA is going to win.


This is not true and which is really said that this sentence has nothing to do with the last one so even your implication ("so") is a joke.

Quote:
When AA retailates, he only does 20% damage when attacked by AB.


1. Who said that AA would retaliate?
2. Does 20% damage??? Are you out of your mind?

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Lord_Woock
Lord_Woock


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Daddy Cool with a $90 smile
posted June 17, 2004 12:53 PM

Can't you see, csarmi?

80% defense reduction means defending stack is reduced by 80%, which means the retaliating attack will be only 20% of the original stack's power
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kwahraps
kwahraps


Adventuring Hero
posted June 17, 2004 01:55 PM

I thought only the defense of the creature attacked is reduced by 80%.

You are stating that the offense is reduced, as well???

I did not know that.


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kwahraps
kwahraps


Adventuring Hero
posted June 17, 2004 02:35 PM

Csarmi,

This thread seem familiar ???

http://www.heroescommunity.com/viewthread.php3?FID=6&TID=11796&pagenumber=3

AA does 77.5 damage
AB does 82.5 max damage

You've already done this exercise, I've repeated your numbers, and still you argue????

It's just a game . . . . put more emphasis on your life.

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csarmi
csarmi


Supreme Hero
gets back
posted June 17, 2004 04:21 PM
Edited By: csarmi on 17 Jun 2004

Quote:
and the Behemoths do 66.8, so it takes 3 attacks to take out a devil.


That is not true, Behemoth's do 68 average damage. Also, all it means is that AB has a little more than 50% chance to take out the Devil in time.

Quote:
Csarmi,

This thread seem familiar ???

http://www.heroescommunity.com/viewthread.php3?FID=6&TID=11796&pagenumber=3

AA does 77.5 damage
AB does 82.5 max damage

You've already done this exercise, I've repeated your numbers, and still you argue????




That was 10vs10 which is a completely different game, requiring different tactics.

You seem to be forgetting about something very important. I was trying to help you to solve this riddle, but --

Quote:
Can't you see, csarmi?

80% defense reduction means defending stack is reduced by 80%, which means the retaliating attack will be only 20% of the original stack's power


lol :-)

--------------------------------------------

anyways, since no one seems to be interested, here is the solution

AA - AB fight

AA waits
AB defends (and keeps defending)

AA has to survive 4 AB hits, which is very unlikely (4*(49-82) has a very high chance of being at least 250), else AB wins

AD - AB fight

AD waits
AB moves to center
AD hits,
AD hits
AB hits, AD retals
AD hits
AB hits, AD retals
AD defends(!)
AB hits

Now if this hit finishes the devil, AB wins, if not, AD retals, starts next turn with getting a punch in and AD wins.

So if AD survives 3 hits (two for 51-85, one for 49-82), he wins, if not, he loses.

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viking
viking


Known Hero
Rock'n'Roll
posted June 17, 2004 05:17 PM

Quote:
Yes for you. There is nothing that would make the slightest sense in your last reply.


Maybe you should just read the contenst of the thred again
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One powerful hero is good, two is better

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csarmi
csarmi


Supreme Hero
gets back
posted June 17, 2004 09:19 PM

Quote:
Quote:
Yes for you. There is nothing that would make the slightest sense in your last reply.


Maybe you should just read the contenst of the thred again


watchatalking bout?

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