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| Thread: Americans and ignorance... |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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dimis
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Digitally signed by FoG
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posted December 03, 2009 11:33 AM |
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Edited by dimis at 13:12, 03 Dec 2009.
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Education in US
I was thinking about writing some posts like this one, in a few years from now, but now it is a good opportunity. I am not sure if the posts that will follow are necessarily about ignorance, but they are certainly about Americans and the life in US. I prefer some things in this country, however ...
I will start with the education system and I will move on to other aspects of life.
In the past, I thought the education system in Greece really sucks. However, as many things in life, we appreciate something when we lose it or switch to something new. And here I am referring to the education in US.
One of the biggest mysteries for me, is what students actually learn until they finish high-school (in any country). The opening post in the thread by Shai-Hulud, was about geography. And more or less there are many such examples; I also have in mind an old video where people are locating France in Australia, just because the map is a farce and on top of Australia it is written "France". Ok, but let's move on, because that is not a personal experience.
2007, winter semester, math 118: mathematical reasoning. A class that usually many non-math majors have to take as part of the standard curriculum.
It is the second week of the class, we are solving problems that involve first, second degree equations at most. First of all, I already think that this is too much if you are studying at a university. But anyway ... near the end of the hour we reach the difficult problem of the day that involves some second degree equation. So, we discuss the problem briefly and I write down the solution.
- "Questions ?"
- "Can you please try to lower that 2 over there so that they are in a straight line ? It doesn't help on writing them down."
I look again at the board, and everything seems nice. And I am like ... "what do you mean ?". The guy repeats himself, pointing at the same time on the 2 which is on the top right corner next to the "x". And then I get it; he is asking me to make x^2 equal to "x times two". Then we have a discussion, about what "x squared" means and he is justifying himself, that in his school they only did "Logic"and that he has no clue. Needless to say next week I had to cover basic set theory, and in two weeks we would start working on permutations and combinations ==> many funny symbols on the board. Frustration.
Same class, different section a few weeks later: We have in-class 15 minute quiz (think mini-exam) every week, and I give an extra 10% for a bonus question. This time the question is "who was the first president of the United States". In total of about 70 students, there were 4 who did not answer, 2 wrote down George Bush, and one guy gave me Clinton.
For the fun of it, here is a little bit of European ignorance, and you will admit it when you google it: Earlier, another question was "the capital of the United States of America". What does "DC" stand for in "Washington DC"? And if you know what this is, try some of your friends with that question ...
2008, spring semester, mcs260: intro to computer science. It should be around 5th week of instruction, and we are about to write a program that solves an arbitrary second degree equation (i.e. it might also be first degree, or blah blah ...). So, we brake it down into different cases and write a skeleton. Next week we are also supposed to talk briefly (give the idea that is) about the numerical stability of the solution. However, there is girl who does not know how to solve any second degree equation. You then talk about discriminant and it is an unknown word ...
2009, winter semester, mcs260 again. This time another girl shows up and in the beginning has difficulty solving the same problem, and does not really remember how to solve a second degree equation even by hand. But the strangest thing is that the answer to her major is "mathematics" ... with a smile! 
I don't know if you think that these are funny, but something is wrong.
So, geography is not ok.
Are the general knowledge questions above also not ok ?
What about that "2" that floats next to the "x" and is so confusing ?
What about being 18+, wanting a major in Maths, you try to solve say
x^2 - 2x + 1 = 0,
the approach is
x^ - 2x = -1,
and you get stuck there (forget that this is an identity anyway) ?
What can you say in such a case ?
I believe this is somehow universal, but in one way or another, the "system" will help you get a degree from a high school, even if you perform very poor. However, in the process and in the transition, something is lost in the US.
Is it a coincidence that many people call the university a "school" ? I think not.
I believe the main problem is that the "major" is very confusing as it is. A look at the graduation requirements and a recommended plan of study more or less reveals what I am talking about. Apparently, 12 years at school earlier were not enough to give you a general background (general education). So, you want a "major" in Maths let's say ? Okay ... you have to take English twice, but you are not forced to take Algebra! You are forced to choose between some physics courses or some chemistry courses but Logic, Set Theory, Topology, and others are elective! And it is also mandatory to choose other general education courses, e.g. some sort of history, or something irrelevant with Maths. You might also say, "So what ?" That's the idea! It is called "major" after all, and you get an "all-around" background majoring somewhere.
Well ... yes ... "major" ...
"major blunder" though.
Because if you think about it, this is a degree from a higher level institution. You are supposed to get something and be competitive in the field that you want. Besides, you pay tons of money! Of course another argument here is that you are doing all sorts of those "Other Maths" (the courses that I kindly neglect to mention) in the mandatory part. Well, ok ... but if you look at those courses, we go back to ground zero. In other words, what happened for twelve years in the real school ?
But of course, there are other problems as well.
- The university somehow promotes the role of a "school" with many weekly exercises, instead of something not so frequent but with more depth and insight.
- Moreover, a big proportion of the students don't want to "lose much time" with "homework" and constantly bug professors and tas, since nobody made them understand that learning and understanding basically comes through re-reading and spending time. And I guess this points again back to the real school.
- Finally, there is the universal (in the whole world that is) class of professional cheaters, who miraculously trick the system through "collaboration" or whatever. There is no exception here either.
Needless to say, all these just add up to confusion and in the end have a social impact.
Again not the entire story. Because in modern times people "compete" from different parts of the planet. And the background that the "major" gives you is questionable compared to the equivalent in many parts in Europe (at least in Math and Computer Science that I can compare that is).
As of the graduate level, I am not sure if I am neutral enough yet, since I am part of the system, to draw conclusions. So this part will come at a later time.
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The empty set
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ohforfsake
Promising
Legendary Hero
Initiate
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posted December 03, 2009 02:07 PM |
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I liked your post, in your profie it says you're from greece, but this post is about the american educational system, is it not? Does that mean you're a teacher in USA?
I'm not from USA, and in my country we've different names for the different parts of school, but I'll anyway give you my experience to what you ask, and will show what type it's by writing the age:
For age 6-15 school, all we basicly did learn was very simple mathmathics, i.e. how to count (the name of numbers), and use the operations of +,-,* and /. Also we learned the alphabet, how to write and type correct, and a bit of english.
That was actually what we had learned at age 9, or was supposed to have learned, I for one had, since it's so basic it's not hard to be a top in a class, the weird thing however was that most of my class did not follow. That meant spending many hours of later years doing the same elementary stuff.
Sure they tried to teach us more things, but it's extremely simple, and in general, at least that's what my memory tells me, the age 9-15 was most of all repetition. That means in our language classes we wrote essays (or something similar, not certain of the name), and then we discussed essays, then we wrote essays, then we discussed essays. For english we'd grammer through all years, and otherwise also essays there as well.
For math, they tried to teach us some basic geometry, but to no avail.
I could later on see my fellow students having a hard time with english in the later stages of school. I'd played a lot of computer games and had a somewhat regular contact with relatives from London, which meant I'd an advantage in that case.
For the language courses, they did later on try to teach us some theory, like analysing work of famous poets, etc.
And for math, finally some evolving happened after the first type of school had finished.
So the conclusion I came to is that the problem is, that the teachers try to get everyone to follow, in stead of, well just as an example let's say divide the class into two groups, those who did they homework, and those who did not. Students fear to tell they've not done their homework, and students fear to show they're ignorant, but when exposed they'll go all defensive in a "I DON'T CARE WHAT YOU THINK" kind of attitude (simply smiling and saying yes, no, yes, but doesn't really listen). If this mentality changed and the teachers made it clear they're there to teach, not to punish if you haven't learned it, then I think you'd see a lot brighter students entering university. Or just Gymnasium (age 16-18) for that matter.
Another conclusion I came to is about interest, one of my friends from the earlier school was doing extremely well, he also knew exactly what he wanted, eventhoug only at age 8, and he had found out exactly what it required. When he got this knowledge, which was very basic from school at age 10, or something like that, and realised the school had no more to offer him (more information that interested him would first be available to him when he was around 16 years old), he simply stopped caring. He got low grades, but it didn't matter, because he had what he needed, then at age 16 he regained interest as he now had finished the previous school time and could continue with what interested him.
However as the above tries to say, interest alone is not enough, nor is knowledge of exactly what you want, because you can easily end up in the "evil spiral" of many different things, just as examples like the above, if you don't do your homework, you might be afraid to tell, and then you'll learn nothing from being in class (not only because the teacher assumes you've done said homework, but also because the fear of being revealed will frighten you from learning and focus on hiding that you're clueless), then you've twice as much to do the next time, plus a whole class you practically missed.
Another type of "evil spiral" is when you loose self control towards something (partly addiction), this loss of self control can make people justify trying to "finish" something that they really don't care for, simply to not have it on their mind. As it's often not finishable, and there'll most likely come more disturbance than salvation through that method, it's an "evil spiral".
All these kinds of situation however can be avoided, if students first and foremost learned what it's to learn, that's at least what I believe, got information about the different subjects so they could find out what interests them and having the ability to actually choose.
Like TheDeath once wrote, some subjects can be defended as mandatory, because it's needed to survive in society, I interpret that as in principle all other courses more or less actually builds upon these most elementary stones, and it's very positive that people seem to learn these, but the focus on them are too high, when people have learned it sufficient, it can be stopped at age 9 or 10 I'd say, or at least let those who've learned it be able to move forward.
However all in all, letting people choose from the start and learning them how to learn, and how to have self control, i.e. self improvement, is something I somewhat think would not let 12 years of education seem more or less wasted.
Quote:
The university somehow promotes the role of a "school" with many weekly exercises, instead of something bigger and actually dealing with the gist of what is being taught.
That sounds very interesting, could you illustrate with an example what you had in mind with something bigger that deals with the gist of what's taught?
Sorry it got a bit long and maybe a bit off topic.
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del_diablo
Legendary Hero
Manifest
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posted December 03, 2009 03:12 PM |
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Quote:
That was actually what we had learned at age 9, or was supposed to have learned, I for one had, since it's so basic it's not hard to be a top in a class, the weird thing however was that most of my class did not follow. That meant spending many hours of later years doing the same elementary stuff.
In Norway, we got the same idiotic system with some variables.
We start school at age of 6(1st grade) which we enter "Barneskole", and get done with that after 7th grade. Then we enter "Ungdomsskolen", and spend 2 years learning "more advanced stuff", then we have 1 year just repeating and then graduate from that.
Then we move onto what would have been gymnasium quite some years ago, which is now "Videregående Skole", which said short is "VGS". Which we actually attempt to learn something, unless you take the "allmenn" which is now conviently renamed "studie spesialisering" or "specialisation of study", which you will learn less since its a bit of repeating. The other choices are to specialize for a job(ex: carpenter or electrician), and go on a path towards them at VGS.
After that its either:
*getting a apprentice job, then finally getting a profession with proper papers on it.
*Getting a job
*Moving onwards to the universities
Now, as i am currently in Gymnasium/VGS, i keep on seeing that people tend to do 1 grave mistake about school. And it bothers me quite well.
Quote:
The reason people go to school is to learn.
-Unknown
This quotation is something i've heard several times, and it really bothers me, not because of what it says but rather of what happens around it:
Quote:
Education Knowledge is what remains after one has forgotten everything he learned in school.
-Albert Einstein
Ofcourse, i think this quite might be mistranslated. That is the reason for editing the quite.
Now look at the stark contrast: if you go to school to learn, BUT what knowledge you actually posses years after being done with school is actual knowledge and things you have learned.
I see entire classes of students opening their books and doing homework, just to fail utterly if they had encountered a surprise test. I see them opening their books and attempting to push as much as possible into their short time memory just so they can use it on the test.
They do not go to school to learn, they go to school to get decent grades. And it bothers me.
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Corribus
Hero of Order
The Abyss Staring Back at You
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posted December 03, 2009 03:57 PM |
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@dimis
Forgive me, but I'm not really sure what point you are trying to make with the anecdotes you've provided. I haven't gone back and read the whole thread, so maybe that's why I fail to appreciate what you're trying to say.
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I'm sick of following my dreams. I'm just going to ask them where they're goin', and hook up with them later. -Mitch Hedberg
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ihor
Supreme Hero
Accidental Hero
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posted December 03, 2009 04:56 PM |
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Edited by ihor at 16:56, 03 Dec 2009.
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@dimis
Certainly it is not about Americans. It is about all people, including you and me. The human's memory is not infinite and it's essential to forget things, especially if you don't need them. Till the 4th year in the university 80% of students will forget how to find inverse matrix, while on the 1st year, everyone could do this with closed eyes. Even if you are a perfect mathematician, you will not remember elementaries from all spheres of math. I bet the professor, specialist in Number's Theory could easily be find who don't know how to write an equation of tangent line.
Other questions why those students chose Mathematics and how they cope with entrance exams in the university. If the first question could be answered by different ways, either it's personal desire, influence of parents/friends or lack of another choice, then the second is much more interesting. It could be a problem. The first we could think is they were lucky on entrance exams or their knowledge was quite good for that moment but its very unlikely. Corruption? I believe there isn't such a problem in US, unlike...  . If not corruption then the remaining thing is bad selection on the entrance exams. I don't know, maybe there isn't any exams for such a "payable education" in US but it should be IMO. Cause I don't believe a person who couldn't solve equation of second degree can call oneself a mathematician.
I'll repeat it's not about Ameicans. I also had similar situation. I had helped one girl to prepare to entrance exams from mathematics. She were trying to enter economics faculty. So I dictated a task to her:
"x squared" (literally in ukrainian its pronounced as "x in square"(x v kvadrati)) And would you believe that, she drawed a square and wrote "x" inside it.
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Your advertisement could be
here only for 100$ per day. 
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted December 03, 2009 07:10 PM |
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People think the European education is superior.
I think it's BS. It's as good as any other. They just cram more useless stuff in our heads, and we forget it after a month anyway. Much as ihor said, if you ask me how to do stress calculations, I won't even know how to start, even though I could do this blindfolded two years ago.
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We reached to the stars and everything is now ours
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xerox
Promising
Undefeatable Hero
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posted December 03, 2009 10:17 PM |
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These are the stuff my class has worked on during the autum session (Yule holiday soon for 2-3 weeks).
But first I will explain fast how the education in grundskolan which I guess would elementary school. Everybody must go in grundskolan for 9 years (plus one year on förskolan/pre-school/kindergarten 2.0).
You start pre-school when you are six years old so the real school starts at the age of seven. In pre-school you mostly play etc. Educationary play
School is splitted in three (or four if you count with pre-school) parts.
Lågstadiet
Year 1-3
Not a lot to say here. In the third grade you start to have english and you are 9-10 years old then. However, my class did a sneak start during the second year.
In the third grade you get sloyd or handcraft has a subject. Its splitted so half the class gets Textil/Cloth and the other half gets Tree handcraft (träslöjd). Then the groups switch during spring.
Mellanstadiet
Year 3-6
During the sixth grade (when you are 12-13), you get to choose a secondary language if you want too (the wast majority does, since you lose grades later otherwise).
You get to choose Spanish, German or French. Most people seems to choose Spanish, followed by the traditional German and a large minority chooses French. Atleast that seems to be the case on the schools around my place.
In the sixth grade you also have some boy/girl specific sexual education.
Högstadiet
Year 7-9
Here is when the big things start. When you are 13-14 years old you begin in the 7th grade and Högstadiet. Previously, you had one core teacher that held lots of subjects by herself.
Now you get different teachers for everything and more skilled and dedicated teachers. In the seventh grade you also got to choose if you want Cloth handcraft or Tree/Iron handcraft.
Since both of them suck and the Tree handcraft teachers always seem to be pedophiles plus its more relaxing to sit down, most of us choosed Cloth and only one guy choosed Tree/Iron.
Either way, the point is that you get to choose - permantly.
This is also were Home studies or Hemkunskap is introduced. You have it one session a year (or atleast we had, then they changed so my year missed a session -.-)
Home studies has mostly been cooking. Well, pretty much its always cooking. Tacos, pasta, a dish with sausage, a dish with mincemeat, roll-cake, cookies, muffins, sugar and chocolate cakes. You name it. We only had one test in Home studies this session and most of us got the highest grade. So what is the test in Home studies?
Making a 3 meter princess cake? Nope. Its about nutrients and vitamins etc. About health. Nurition.
Like how should the food circle look like. How much carbohydrates should you consume etc.
A major, major part when you start the seventh grade is that your old class is annhiliated. Literally.
Your old class is broken apart but you get a list where you write what top 5 people you want to be with, and then perhaps you will get 2 people on your wish list. There are also certain classes dedicated to music and others to soccer (fotboll) etc.
So if you are on a big school like me with 600 students (which is quite a lot here, I live in the sixth largest city in Sweden with 120,000-130,000 people), you get A LOT of people from other schools that only go from pre-school to the sixth grade.
In the eight grade you also get marks for the first time and we will get sexual education after yule where we will learn how to breed and protect ourselfs etc.
Haha, there was somebody that had a shirt were it said "Every day a teacher is born. Use condom." xD
And before I really start, I want to mention the subjects we have in the Swedish school in the eight grade.
Maths
English
Swedish
Spanish/German/French
NO - Natural Orientation. Physics, Chemistry and Biology.
SO - Social Orientation. Religion, History, Geography and Society.
Engineering (half class)
Handcraft Tree/Iron - Cloth
Music
Illustration
Athletics
Home studies
Students Council
Students choice (Happy hour lol)
Also, on our schlude we also have "A-Pass". Working Pass. There we get to work with anything we want too. Every day we get free but not so good school lunch that everybody eats, including all teachers etc. But thats going to change so teachers will have to pay a fee to eat later. We have lots of breaks. The lunch break is usually 50 min to one hour long. Otherwise, breaks between classes are around 10-30 min. Students council is not really a subject but it is a council that the whole school is involved in and it brings out the schools democracy. You get to write down what you think of the school and then its sent to a larger council etc. There are is a Council representant for each class.
Students choice can have very different themes. Like learning about your city and going by bus to see stuff in your town or making films etc.
We usually start school 08:20 except on Thursday where we start 08:35 because the teachers have a meeting in the morning.
During our latest school day we end up going home at 15:35. But usually we go home around 14:30 or something like that.
This is what my class, 8C, did in the different subjects during the autumn session.
Maths: We managed to do 3-4 chapters. We had tests for each chapter. The chapters each have a theme like Geometrics and equations and percentage.
English: We worked in our book which has different chapters based on a another book. We watched lots of movies including Starsky & Hutch, Pay it forward (watching it now), Forrest Gump and Notting Hill etc.
Then we do reviews. And now we have had some grammar for some time. Infinitum and Futurum and prescense etc. I dont really know what its called in english. Boring stuff like this:
I have
You have
We have
It, she, he has
You (plural) have
They have
Swedish: We watched a movie called I taket lyser stjärnorna (The Stars Shine in the Ceiling) in a theatre. Then we did a long, long review. And we wrote a crime story. Also we did an enviromental description and a person description.
Now we are working on different Tempus and word forms etc like (in swedish) infinitiv, pluskvamperfekt, perfekt, imperfekt, futurum, presens, adjektiv, verb, adverb, substanstiv and presens etc.
Oh and we talked a lot about the Nordic languages and a bit about the evolution of the European language overall.
We learnt some Danish and Norweigan and got to take part of the Danish counting system that makes zero sense
Spanish: Chapter book. Our class sucks in spanish so we're pretty much stuck in square one. Counting. Saying hello. Describing etc. We also watched Harry Potter and the Philosophers Stone in Spanish with english subtitles xD
Harry Potter y de la Piedra de Filosofal.
Spanish is hard
NO = We worked a bit about the body and the skeleton etc. And then for a reallly long time we work(ed) on Light and Sound. I hate NO. Because you need to explain everything. What is light? What is sound? Why does light exist? How does sound exist? Why? Why? How does a freaking mirror work with the light rays? How does light reflect from an optic tougher substance to an optic thinner substance?
And whys that? Why? You need to explain everything. I dont understand. Why cant we just let mirrors work like they are now without understanding everything about them -.-
I dont care and I have use for this knowledge -.-
The test is on Friday and im training hard. Also the eye is so complicated. After Yule we get real sexual education and we will see real sex tapes (not porn) lol xD
SO = Oh we did lots of interesting stuff here. We studied the Nordic countries and now recently we have studied the Industrial Revolution in the 1700s and the 1800s and Triangle trade (slave trade in europe) etc. The work is really focused on England and we are going to write a story about the Industrial Revolution in England.
This is a short summary of my story;
The Biography of Clance McGerfe
Basically, its written like a biography and the text says its dated to 1851 or something like that. He tells that he was born in 1798, on a poor farm in southern Scotland. As the nearby village fell apart and people began to move to the simplicity and community in the cities, the farm also began to fall apart.
At the age of 10, he was sent away by his parents to Newcastle. There he met Ane McCoy, but her mother didnt want to see them together. He began to work in the coal mines and he thought that it was like being a slave. He did not understand why he was treated differently, why he was put down in the darkest and deepest tunnels, just because he was Scottish.
Ane became his savior and they met again. It was easier to escape then he had thought. The fear of failure of escape had prevented him from doing it earlier. One day when Ane went away with her parents, Clance sneaked into her parents house. Then the parents suddenly came home and Ane was very disappointed in him. He managed to flee and Ane got to suffer physical harm from her father because she had been with Clance. Ane says she never wants to see Clance again and that she will tell the men at the mine where he is.
Clance flees from Newcastle and manages to get to Barrow. There he works in a factory that makes something. He works there for several years and visits his parents once. In a tavern he meets a guy that wants to sail to Africa to buy slaves etc and become rich. He already has a crew and need some new members. Clance takes the chance. The first trip is horrible for him but it slowly goes better and in the end, they move their business to Liverpool and triangle trade from there. But protests against slavery increase, and two years before trading slaves becomes forbidden in the UK, they stop their business. Clance is already rich and starts the company Regal Cloth that sells cloth for the upper-class. To be more accepted, he changes his name to Cedric (I love this name and use it all the time) Applebough. He marries Mary-Kate Johnson.
He dies in 1851, having lived a very long life at the time.
Engineering = I dont have this yet.
Cloth Handcraft = I suck at this. First we were going to make a Test Square and I barely made it. Now im making my own version of the Swedish flag and I will rework imaginary flags later.
UKs flag looks great btw, but it would be better if it was Blue and Yellow. Blue and yellow/gold just goes together so well.
Music = Right now we have been playing Yule songs for a while. Many are very christian and traditional but really, I dont care and nobody does -.-
Peace is a common theme in our traditional songs. I will translate two songs. The first is a favorite.
Julen är här / Yule is here
The stars, falling into the night now,
the heavens descends,
down over the earth.
And when the stars flare
lights its light for us
burns a flame so clear
throughout the North
Yule is here
and calls for peace on Earth
The joy is great
in a childs clear eyes it lives
Yule is here
in our darkened countries
Come let us join hands
Yule is here
And I want
to light yet another star
the one that has frozen and got lost in the world
For those who are not with us
we now light a flare
burns a flame so clear
Come here, here it is
Yule is here
and calls for peace on Earth
The joy is great
in a childs clear eyes it lives
Yule is here
in our darkened countries
Come let us join hands
Yule is here
Give us of the peace that roams
in the stars marvelous home
Lead us on the road that we walk
so that we can find home to it
Okay, that was horrible. Here is the real Swedish song (but I shortened it).
Stjärnorna, fallar i natten nu,
himlarna sänker sig,
ner över jorden.
Och när stjärnans bloss,
tänder sitt ljus hos oss,
brinner en låga klar,
i hela norden.
Julen är här,
och lyser frid på jorden.
Glädjen är stor,
i ett barns klara ögon bor den.
Julen är här,
i våra mörka länder.
Kom låt oss ta varandras händer,
när julen är här.
Och jag vill,
tända en stjärna till,
den som har frusit och gått vill i världen.
För den som inte finns hos oss,
tänder vi nu ett bloss.
brinner en låga klar,
Kom hit, här är den.
Julen är här,
och lyser frid på jorden.
Glädjen är stor,
i ett barns klara ögon bor den.
Julen är här,
i våra mörka länder.
Kom låt oss ta varandras händer,
när julen är här.
Ge oss av den frid som rår,
i stjärnornas förunderliga hem.
Led oss på den väg vi går,
så att vi hittar hem till den.
However, this song is easy to translate so I took it.
Since its with Carola its very christian lol.
A star shines so bright
Now in the holy hour,
we look upon the heights of heaven
And we hear the bells ringing
feeling our hearts delight
The angels give us hope and faith,
sing about peace on our Earth.
the one that god never abandoned
a star shines so bright
The love that the world needs,
we know that the child bears
Our long journey is over,
the star has stayed here
The angels give us hope and faith,
sing about peace on our Earth.
the one that god never abandoned
a star shines so bright
Heaven lies slumbering
on the Earths yellow straw
We feel joy and wonder
for we have come
Here we can dream about the peace,
that we owned once
The child that is born the heaven takes
and the Earth is filled with song
En stjärna lyser så klar
Nu i den heliga timman,
ser vi mot himlens höjd.
Och vi hör klockorna klinga,
känner vart hjärtas fröjd.
Änglarna ger oss hopp och tro,
sjunger om fred på vår jord.
den som Gud aldrig övergav
en stjärna lyser så klart
Kärleken världen behöver,
vet vi att barnet bär
Vår långa vandring är över,
stjärnan har stannat här
Änglarna ger oss hopp och tro,
sjunger om fred på vår jord.
den som Gud aldrig övergav
en stjärna lyser så klart
Himmelen ligger och slumrar
på jordens gula halm
Vi känner fröjd öch förundran
för vi har kommit fram
Här kan vi drömma om den fred,
som vi ska äga en gång
Barnet som föds tar himlen med
och jorden fylls utav sång
Änglarna ger oss hopp och tro,
sjunger om fred på vår jord.
den som Gud aldrig övergav
en stjärna lyser så klart
Enough with the cozy Yule music.
Illustration: I dont like this subject. I dont like deadlines. I want to take my time. The time that I need to get out all of my creativity and make things perfect. When we were doing architect plans recently I didnt get in time -.-
I wanted to make my luxury house so I made it in the Sims 3 lol.
Atheltics: Please dont ask. Last time we danced Yule dances. It was fun. And they are so silly. Im sure foreigners laugh at us at our ring dances that the whole school will do.
Do you even know how the songs go in english?
They go like this (its short, I promise)
Its a big Swedish secret what we sing about and now you get to know, its so silly its embarrasing
but its damn fun
The fox rushes over the ice
the foxes rushes over the ice
Do we get permission, yes do we get permission
to sing the shoemakers song?
This is what the shoemakers does when he walks
and where he sits and where he stands
So do we get permission, yes do we get permission
to sing the shoemakers song?
or why not this one?
its so creative
Ritsch ratsch,
filibom bom bom,
filibom bom bom,
filibom bom bom
Ritsch ratsch,
filibom bom bom,
filibom bom bom,
filibom!
Miss Söderström
miss Söderström,
miss Söderström,
miss Söderström,
and little masel Ros!
Omg this was my favorite when I was a kid.
The priests little crow
Would go out and go
But nobody could drive her
And then she slided here
and then she slided there
and then she slided down into the trench
Okey, last one. This is perhaps the most famous one.
We are musicans
All from Skara castle
We are musicians
All from Skara castle
We can play violioliolej,
we can play bass violin and flute.
And we can dance
bomfaderalla,
bomfaderalla, bomfaderalla,
we can dance bomfaderalla,
bomfaderallanlej.
Lots of music here.
Home studies; Cooking. Nutrients.
____________
Over himself, over his own
body and
mind, the individual is
sovereign.
- John Stuart Mill
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TheDeath
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
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posted December 04, 2009 12:11 AM |
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@dimis: Considering that my IT (programming) teacher high school barely knew her material and once even made a mistake in a test, I think that you're over-generalizing. (you can't imagine how much I argued with her until I decided to write a program to prove her wrong then she gave everyone in class the points to that exercise, seeing as how it was wrong and all that)
BTW I always thought you are some math teacher (considering how much math you know), are you a student?
____________
The above post is subject to SIRIOUSness.
No jokes were harmed during the making of this signature.
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Binabik
Responsible
Legendary Hero
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posted December 04, 2009 01:49 AM |
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He's a grad student studying for a higher level degree. I don't know about other places, but in the US grad students often teach lower level classes instead of a regular professor teaching them. That's what Dimis does. So he's a student himself, but teaches some lower level classes on the side.
When I was at uni, I'd guess that about 10% of my teachers were grad students....just to make up a number off the top of my head.
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mvassilev
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted December 04, 2009 02:16 AM |
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I'm fortunate to be at a college that is professor-only - no TAs.
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Eccentric Opinion
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Corribus
Hero of Order
The Abyss Staring Back at You
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posted December 04, 2009 02:37 AM |
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These days at large universities, classes are for the most part taught by professors but teaching assistants handle recitations, labs, and, of course, all that gawdawful grading.
____________
I'm sick of following my dreams. I'm just going to ask them where they're goin', and hook up with them later. -Mitch Hedberg
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dimis
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Digitally signed by FoG
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posted December 04, 2009 05:28 AM |
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Edited by dimis at 05:44, 04 Dec 2009.
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From education to crime
@ OhforfSake,
Nice post. What Binabik and Corribus write is correct. Initially I was TA, next year I was GA (responsible for the site of the department), this semester TA again, next semester I will be RA, and then I might loop again. I also mention the courses. And I also agree with you on dividing the students into groups; this is important when you can afford or find ways to achieve it.
@ del_diablo,
I agree. That bothers me too. The other thing is, that the grading scale in US is A, B, C, ... not some sort of numerical scale. And this has some extra implications.
@ Corribus,
I am trying to understand; to find what is wrong - and here I mean many things; like bashing by others, or behavior of the people who live in US - because ever since I came in US, my opinion improves daily about Americans. Don't ask about the system though ... it just keeps on deteriorating. But anyway, let's see something else in this post.
@Ihor,
More or less I agree. I am describing the life in US. So, if it is not about Americans, what is it about ? I am specific. What I wrote is strange and of course it is not at all typical in big US universities too. We can talk about funny anecdotes in the Maths thread; that was not my purpose when I mentioned some examples here. I believe we will come back to education - I have certainly omitted many good things in US -, but I think we need some detour first.
@ Doomforge,
May be. Is this your personal experience ? Because my personal experience indicates differently regarding undergrads. Anyway.
@ Death,
May be I am wrong and I over-generalize. But you know ... everyone makes mistakes in programming apart from you. And I am not a mathematician. I never was, and I will never be. I think that what I know is CS rather than Math, and it is very close to what I believe is CS about in what Knuth writes in his first 7 pages here. Of course I have given this link in the past too. It is a gem.
@ mvass,
May be. However, - I don't like using such an argument, but ...- for the courses that I have taught I have more publications than the professor. So, you know, how are we going to measure it now ?
But anyway ...
There are times when I don't like the approach that is followed in some of the problems, when people say "whatever ... things happen ...". And I will give you a very specific example. One of the things that was "new" to me, were emails with the title "[Urgent] Crime Alert". And these emails were sent by the univeristy police (different from the official police), regarding offenses in the surrounding area of the campus.
During the first year, Aug 2007 - Aug 2008, the flow was almost similar to that of the next year. This year (winter 2009) I had the feeling that the offenses have declined and indeed the numbers verify it below. Unfortunately, after some period of time, these emails become part of the daily routine, and you just neglect them. As a result I don't have the data between Aug 2007-08 (but they re similar to the period Aug 2008-09); I emptied that inbox the summer of 2008. But let's see what I have; just some numbers:
2008
Aug 7, Sep 3, 8, 8 (twice the same day), 19, Oct 14, Nov 3, 12, 17, 24, Dec 8, 15.
2009
Jan 7, 13, Feb 6, 11, 23, Apr 24, May 6, Jun 2, 26, 30, Jul 29, Aug 27, 31, Sep 9, 25, Oct 13, 27, and Nov 12.
12 offenses in about 4 months period in 2008 and 18 offenses in 2009 so far (and something is very likely to happen in December too based on the previous two years). I think JollyJoker had posted something similar about homicides (internationally) in some thread but I can not seem to be able to find it. What I remember though was that a comparison between Washington and Athens (Greece) was something like 50:2. That says something.
Now this is kind of striking for me guys. In an area of about 3x4 blocks, near the center of the city, with the police standing by, you have these things happening. And I am not talking about 1 police car. There are several in the area and still ... On the other hand, I can not even explain the emails! I like the area nearby the campus (may be I am used to, I don't know), I enjoy walking there, and didn't have a problem ever so far. In fact I have been in strange situations in other places, but this is off topic.
Nevertheless, these things happen; the emails are sent by the official university police. Now, I don't know how things are in the rest of the Europe; I really doubt this is happening in campuses, but the statistics above are really "greek" to a greek guy for these sorts of attacks. Clearly, burglars exist everywhere, and they break into cars, trying to steal radios, find money, etc. But all the above are armed offenses in the vicinity of a campus. It is different; a whole lot different.
But what leads to incidents like these ? If we find that, we might also be able deteriorize it in the future and ideally - well, .. - prevent it.
Ok, so what are the major factors that determine / influence our actions ?
- Clearly what we want, but this doesn't say much now, does it ?
- Family and friends,
- The interaction with the others on a daily basis (see "society", "system", "what we do here", ...),
- Our background - education certainly, but not only.
- And last, but not least, the money and the status.
Did I forget anything ? Please add.
And this is why I started by mentioning education. It has a share on the society that is developed. We grow up with this, every day. More later, because now I have the "gawdawful grading" that Corribus mentioned earlier.
____________
The empty set
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TheDeath
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
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posted December 04, 2009 05:33 AM |
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Hey everyone makes bugs, but what I was talking about was different. She barely knew her material -- I mean, one thing is to make accidental mistakes, that's very very common and natural -- but another thing to actually believe in your mistake, that it works. I mean she didn't believe I was right even after the proof (but had no choice). Says a lot about the education system here.
And I always took you as a mathematician... you seem to know much about abstract things a lot (I'm kinda poor at them).  (my math is limited to what I've learned out of necessity for e.g: 3D rendering & transformations and such...)
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The above post is subject to SIRIOUSness.
No jokes were harmed during the making of this signature.
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Binabik
Responsible
Legendary Hero
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posted December 04, 2009 05:46 AM |
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I've written a fair amount more, but it's not done and I don't have time to get to it right now. But for now, after reading Dimis' second post, I feel more confident in saying that much of what he writes about has to do with the specific school and location where he is.
You will run into much of the same thing other places, but I think it's probably a LOT more common in an urban setting. It also sounds like that school might have "open" enrollment, which means just about anyone can go there with little or no entrance requirements.
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Celfious
Promising
Legendary Hero
From earth
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posted December 04, 2009 05:49 AM |
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Edited by Celfious at 05:49, 04 Dec 2009.
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I currently eligible to call myself an american would concede that I feel the education here is more challenged, and inferior to Europe. I do not know why that the only educational systems I have heard much about are about European and american based.
I dont have anything in my hands to prove my belief but it is what it is.
I dont really get into the whole .. whatever
I would much rather pay someone to teach me how to do what I want to learn how to do, or take an entry level job and learn the things applicable to the career of my choice. I can in a sense see value in learning other things required to understand how to function in modern structured systems. At the same time:
The prerequisites to getting many degrees in the states however are ridiculous. The method is similar to saying, "We want to get this curtain to hang up strong so lets put in random places 300 nails" when there are particular focuses that would actually hold it up better than just some random cluster of nails. Cost less material, be more formidable and adequate in its agenda, give those nails, to the next guy, instead of teaching me how to tell the difference between some moth with black or white .. Or whatever...
its not relevant for me why dont you give that energy to the next person?
____________
What are you up to
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dimis
Responsible
Supreme Hero
Digitally signed by FoG
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posted December 04, 2009 05:49 AM |
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Edited by dimis at 05:50, 04 Dec 2009.
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Binabik: Yes. The doors have signs though and state clearly that the "others" should go away ...
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The empty set
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Binabik
Responsible
Legendary Hero
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posted December 04, 2009 05:52 AM |
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*not going to touch that with a ten foot pole*
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Corribus
Hero of Order
The Abyss Staring Back at You
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posted December 04, 2009 04:49 PM |
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@dimis
There are certainly fundamental issues with the education system here in the US, from grade-school all the way through graduate school at large universities. On the whole, however, it's pretty good, evidenced by the fact that people all over the world come here (to the US) to study.
____________
I'm sick of following my dreams. I'm just going to ask them where they're goin', and hook up with them later. -Mitch Hedberg
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TheDeath
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
with serious business
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posted December 04, 2009 05:33 PM |
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Quote:
I've written a fair amount more, but it's not done and I don't have time to get to it right now. But for now, after reading Dimis' second post, I feel more confident in saying that much of what he writes about has to do with the specific school and location where he is.
Exactly my point.
BTW when I said the education system here sucks only based on my specific circumstance, I was sarcastic (i.e over-generalizing). Of course, it sucks for whole other different reasons -- rote memorization encouragement being one of them
____________
The above post is subject to SIRIOUSness.
No jokes were harmed during the making of this signature.
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted December 04, 2009 05:56 PM |
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dimis, my opinion if flawed and useless since I've never been to any place outside Poland.
Thus I won't comment on US educational system. I can relate to the praise our European system gets at times. Especially Poles consider themselves vastly superior and educated compared to Americans (which are considered dumb here. Like, that they don't know where country X lies and such. Power of stereotypes.). The praise in uncalled for because the system in Poland is absolute snow - in college, how come I am bordering fourth year, with massive scholarship, getting best grades (A and B equivalents), yet I understand absolutely NOTHING of what I'm learning at times?
It's a MOCKERY of a education, not education, and I'm the prime example.
I'm so ignorant at some disciplines, it makes me ashamed of myself. And yet I pass with a good mark, because I managed to learn the algorithm of going through the problem by rote. But, ask me what's X in this algorithm and what's Y, and I have no snowing clue.
Isn't this a joke? Anyone can learn to repeat certain steps, and that's what we do at Warsaw Tech most of the time. We follow instructions, then analyze them at home to notice a pattern, then, making use of that pattern, we get good marks or at least acceptable marks. We should get kicked out of the college after the very first exam, though, save for a TINY group of students who actually understand something (maybe 1%...).
And, mind you, this is the best technical college in Poland, it's not some private waste of imagination called "college" in a backwater town, in which case that would be acceptable.
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We reached to the stars and everything is now ours
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