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Heroes Community > Library of Enlightenment > Thread: Jebus
Thread: Jebus This thread is 2 pages long: 1 2 · NEXT»
maretti
maretti


Responsible
Supreme Hero
posted July 07, 2005 12:01 PM

Jebus

The Jebus template is a very popular template but is often criticized by vets for being worthless and all about luck. To avoid unbalance many players have made a ton of rules like no cons/hives, lvl 7 dwells, dbl build, portal of summoning, arma and implo.

My opinion is that jebus is no more luck than other templates. I find blockbuster to be a bigger toss than jebus. And most of the balancing rules are unnessesary. The chance of getting a balanced game isnt bigger with all the rules than without. The only rules I can support is no cons if one player plays castle and the other dosent and no implo. (prevents earth book and blue hat from being certain game winners).

Jebus is actually a big challenge week 1 and not all about what you find on your map. (especially cause you cant upgrade any units)You have to go for the important things and nothing else to be as fast as possible and you will have a lot of difficult battles week one. For example not everyone will even try to take out a lvl 7 dwelling guarded by lots of magis week 1. But if you do so and succeed it might win you the game even though the opponent has the better map.

Another thing is that many people find that only castle is playeble on jebus, but try out stronghold or tower and you will see that they can kick ass too.

So whats your opinion about jebus?
(I would have made a poll but its not working)


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Crag rules, Orrin and Ivor suck

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Sir_Stiven
Sir_Stiven


Honorable
Legendary Hero
banned
posted July 07, 2005 12:25 PM

my opinion? it sucks.

try and kill someone week 3-4 who gets HH/SOJ from his side and has ~3 lvl 7 dwells. Esp. if a no castle+cons rule.

good luck.

Whereas maps with low level arts and a low number of low dwells makes your gameplay and speed essential there is no use of it if your opponent gets a killer area.


As for towns i like fortress on jebus, with all the possible hives it can give you 3 real dmg stacks instead of the regular two (hydras&mighty mooo's) whereas most towns have 1.

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maretti
maretti


Responsible
Supreme Hero
posted July 07, 2005 01:03 PM
Edited By: maretti on 7 Jul 2005

I have played jebus many times and never seen a senario like that. But if it should happen now and then it doesnt change the fact that the winning percentage between a good and a bad player will be about the same on jebus as on any other template.
Besides if you rush a bad opponent with a map like that you will win most games anyway.
____________
Crag rules, Orrin and Ivor suck

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Sir_Stiven
Sir_Stiven


Honorable
Legendary Hero
banned
posted July 07, 2005 01:24 PM

well if you play a bad opponent yes.

But the closer in skill you are the more depending you are on luck. And a normal skilled player could easily beat a great player if lucky with creatures/arts.

Point is if opponent has a HH or another top relic or some high lvl dwells it doesnt really matter if you rush him because you wont be able to rush him until late week 2 anyway if your lucky with his area being close to your roadwise through middle.

And by end week 2 any normally skilled player can defeat the usual lots of lvl 5 units for the relic. And if no artifact&resources along with the high lvl dwell you are really unlucky to have lots of magi as guards as it usually is 50-80 lvl 2 units or approx 100 lvl 1 units tops.


But if you play the normally skilled player on a poorer map where resource management/knowing what you can fight and when for extra resources/breaking you will have a much greater speed advantage.

And there is nothin in his side that can win the game for him. There lies the difference.

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tigris
tigris


Supreme Hero
Supreme Noobolator
posted July 07, 2005 02:15 PM

 In my opinion Jebus is a weak template.As Stefan said, sometimes a player can win the map cos of better starting zone.As an exemple i had a game on the zone on jebus and we were Castle Wars.
My oponent said to me day 4:"I'll be waiting sor you in my area, i don't need to break".Turned out he had 4 topes, 2 cons and 1 angel dwell.
I had 2 pandora boxes,2 monks dwells, 1 cav dwell and sandals of the saint&shield of the damned.Guards were pack goldies so tough week 3 break with only 5 AA.(they were lots by week 3 so around 20 golds)

That map had a smallish starting area with mostly pan boxes, so in my way to his area i only got sword +6 attack and rib cage.

 Jebus can be a great map i think when someone does play it extremely good and actually manages to compensate the luck factor.For exemple a week 3 day 1 break is common and can be done even by a noob like me, and not only with castle.But there are games when great players break, early or mid week 2 and they are in oponent area end week 2.Now this is spectacular, something that stimulates a player.

 Building like a robot angels&castle week 1,taking all stores&banks till you get AA, taking conservatories, then topes and then finally break mid week 3 isn't much of a strategy.As Maretti said, only thing one shoud be interested in is prioritize, don't lose time on worthless activities.Rest is relatively easy.
   Many play Jebus cos it's faster than most templates.Some think they really master this template if they can clear starting area and be ready for break week 3.To me, mastering this template would be to push the limits,to surprise your oponent with a faster break, to attack much faster than he could even dream of.

Another reason for Jebus being played so much i think is that there isn't any other good 2 vs 2 template.The only other official template made for 2 vs 2 is Vortex.
Both Angelito's and Stefan's template are cool to play but they aren't official so people regard those with schepticism.


Anyways my opinion is that Jebus is weak compared to real block templetes like Extreme or Extreme 2.I noticed lately that BB has begun to be played more often online.To me BB is in many ways more challanging than Jebus and for the simple reason that it allows the player multiple choices whereas jebus is always who breaks first.


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bjorn190
bjorn190


Responsible
Supreme Hero
Jebus maker
posted July 17, 2005 03:15 PM

I was the one that made Jebus Cross, and I am so happy to see that it is still talked about and played alot by the majority of players

I actually wanted to make a rich 2vs2 with "Everything ON" so to speak, to provide an alternative to the trimmed down templates where much of the game is missing. Sure, there is a luck factor, but with 2vs2 the luck spreads out, and everyone has the same chance to get a good starting grounds.

If you dont like it you of course dont have to play it. Thats the magic of choice. But Im really happy that many people appreciate it and still play it from time to time

GL all

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sachelos
sachelos


Known Hero
posted January 18, 2007 08:30 AM

Hello!

Hello, from Romania writting 2u now and alwayz will, i'm not such a good player in h3 but i do my best in learning everything i can asap. I'm playing h3 for about 1 and 1/2 year in multiplayer and about less than 6 months in Romanian League of H3 (www.lrh.ro - soon it will be open internationally thanxs to Mr. Cpcos, vets know about him ) and later than most of you around here i discovered Jebus. I like pretty much this template, it looked hard at the beggining but after 20-30 plays i like it better and not as difficult as it was at the beggining. To be honest i studyed some of the saved games played by a good player of ToH and find it very interresting (to break 125 and 126 in opponent area it's a good game i suppose). For me, at this moment, it's kind of impossible to break sooner than 131, in the best game i have ever had so far i break 131, but i lost it lol . (snow happens)
So, if anybody would like to say which day did he brake, and any kind of explanations and details about that are welcome!
Thx, cya

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black_knight
black_knight


Known Hero
LT League
posted January 18, 2007 01:29 PM

3 Words : Jebus is SUX.

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angelito
angelito

Hero of Order
proud father of a princess
posted January 18, 2007 03:01 PM

Thx for your thoughtfulL and well explained opinion black_knight.
____________
Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.

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Devangle1984
Devangle1984


Known Hero
I am the Dark Vader
posted January 19, 2007 04:14 PM

I think jebus is a very interesting temp, fine luck plays a role and yes like tigris said u do get that odd map where nothing goes in your way, but all other temps do that as well.

For example a balance game i played a few weeks ago, i was castle, opponent fortress, he had 3 150 grif cons and a few min ones where i had none. Area was poor where as his first nd second areas where rich, very uncomfortable situation.

Btw steven, 3 lvl7's and oppenent has 1 situations, u still have chance to loose, im no vet but i know how to play the game,and maretti has proved me time and again that its not all about luck when it comes to jebus, skill and the desicions u take centers the game always.

I've also noticed in most games where one player has no high lev dwels and the opponent has, the middle seems to harbour the first players dwels and units in boxes.

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Aculias
Aculias


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Pretty Boy Angel Sacraficer
posted January 19, 2007 04:22 PM

I didnt care to reply at the time but I will say it.
The template is fun but on a tournament lv it's not.
It is very unstable.
Many times i could get 3 Behemoth lairs & 5 cyclop caves week 1 while my oponent gets 7 gargoyle dwellings & 5 gremlin dwellings.
That dont seem fair.

There was a time I got 6 wyvern nests & 3 hydra ponds week 1.
I gotten the 7th wyvern pond week 2 only because it was far away

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Dreaming of a Better World

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devangle1984
devangle1984


Known Hero
I am the Dark Vader
posted January 19, 2007 04:32 PM

no offense to anyone but man ive never had a situation like ever.
i must have played this temp for more than atleast 100 times, the best i mustered was three lv7's and a few lv6 and such.

But as i said sometimes u do get those uneven situations, but not always, specially when u play jebus xl, i find it to be more stable.The hell it takes abt the same time to play large and xl mind u in most cases.

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Aculias
Aculias


Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
Pretty Boy Angel Sacraficer
posted January 20, 2007 03:43 AM

I played it 2 times more then you have.
I should know if a template is unbalanced.
I judged many maps in tournaments & helped abit on balance in toh also.
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Dreaming of a Better World

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Paladin_H3
Paladin_H3


Hired Hero
posted August 29, 2009 11:35 AM
Edited by Paladin_H3 at 11:36, 29 Aug 2009.

Quote:


Another thing is that many people find that only castle is playeble on jebus, but try out stronghold or tower and you will see that they can kick ass too.

So whats your opinion about jebus?
(I would have made a poll but its not working)




Tower kicking ass I have my doubts, although fotress can really do some heavy damage.

Jebus as a temp is highly enjoyable. Entertaining, specially when time is limited.

Hats off to Bjorn.

Any temp, its important to understand its format, then its mostly about the way you analyise and the risks your prepared to take.

P.S. unless Jebus is played on H3 with very limited rules, its never gonna be appretiated.

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maretti
maretti


Responsible
Supreme Hero
posted August 29, 2009 11:53 AM

This thread is 4 years old and my level is much higher now than it was then. Thats my excuse for calling the weakest town on jebus usefull.
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Crag rules, Orrin and Ivor suck

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Paladin_H3
Paladin_H3


Hired Hero
posted August 29, 2009 12:19 PM

Quote:
This thread is 4 years old and my level is much higher now than it was then. Thats my excuse for calling the weakest town on jebus usefull.


Point taken hehe. Still its a gamble, atleast in my eyes. Although I must say Tower can surprise at times on jebus.

I always seem to get it when I go random towns, not always nice hehe.

Hope everything is well with you. I do look forward to finish our last game and play some new ones soon.

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maretti
maretti


Responsible
Supreme Hero
posted August 29, 2009 12:43 PM

Towers main problem is the terrain penalty. Makes it very hard to move angels and wyverns around.

The building order is also a problem, you cant afford to upgrade gremlins week 1 and still you cant even build lvl 7 dwells plus citadel.

3rd problem is that the troops are so expensive. Even though you allmost allways have a tradepost you allmost allways lack money anyway.

3th problem is their weakness against topes and very fast units.

Overall its the weakest town of all on jebus.
____________
Crag rules, Orrin and Ivor suck

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xlnt
xlnt


Known Hero
posted August 31, 2009 08:38 AM

Can't agree with the money problem, Jebus is very, very rich. I second all else.

personal opinion: I don't play this temp anymore. I dislike it that much : )

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liophy
liophy


Famous Hero
Bulgarian
posted August 31, 2009 12:19 PM

Quote:
Towers main problem is the terrain penalty. Makes it very hard to move angels and wyverns around.

The building order is also a problem, you cant afford to upgrade gremlins week 1 and still you cant even build lvl 7 dwells plus citadel.

3rd problem is that the troops are so expensive. Even though you allmost allways have a tradepost you allmost allways lack money anyway.

3th problem is their weakness against topes and very fast units.

Overall its the weakest town of all on jebus.


This all is true. If there was a way to negate these problems...

About terain penalty an idea is to make possible to carry 1 stack as a reserve - a feature of some certain secondary skill, apart from pathfind.

About building order - giants must be possible with castle. Lets say - without having to build gennies.

Against Topes - its always going to be hard, but at least lets make the dragons do just 100% dmg against giants and titans.


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Rainalcar
Rainalcar


Promising
Famous Hero
Heroji su zakon
posted September 01, 2009 07:46 PM

About terrain penalty - take Angels as prize from Cons out. Totally. If you mean TE.
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