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Heroes Community > MapHaven Guild > Thread: Hidden Passages (H3)
Thread: Hidden Passages (H3)
Mobius
Mobius


Hired Hero
posted November 20, 2005 11:56 AM

Hidden Passages (H3)

How many people use some of the terrain objects to create hidden passages? Which combination of terrain works well for "hiding things"? Do like dicovering them or do find them anoying?

I've always found well made hidden passages in maps a good idea (discover one and wonder what did the designer hide here) if implemented well. I've mainly seen good use made of them on single player maps like Lord of War and To Kill for Power (got lost for a while on TKP), would they be a good idea on a multi-player map?

Problem with the AI is that i can always "see" the passages but then again it needs and advantage anyway...
Personally i like to see clever terrain use for passages and so many terrain pieces can be used in combination to create passages, which makes it easy enough to create some hidden areas.

Just some thoughts anyway

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Lord_Woock
Lord_Woock


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Daddy Cool with a $90 smile
posted November 20, 2005 11:58 AM

Using them in multiplayer maps would only serve to elevate the difference between someone who knows the map and a first-time player. I say no.
____________
Yolk and God bless.
---
My buddy's doing a webcomic and would certainly appreciate it if you checked it out!

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Mobius
Mobius


Hired Hero
posted November 20, 2005 12:05 PM

Makes it very unbalanced for multi-player i guess but do you mind them on single player maps?

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Lord_Woock
Lord_Woock


Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
Daddy Cool with a $90 smile
posted November 20, 2005 12:22 PM

If there's a time limit, then yes Otherwise, might as well have them. Then again, I'm not the best person to ask, what with me not playing HoMM3 as much as the folks over in TOH
____________
Yolk and God bless.
---
My buddy's doing a webcomic and would certainly appreciate it if you checked it out!

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Vlaad
Vlaad


Admirable
Legendary Hero
ghost of the past
posted November 20, 2005 03:04 PM
Edited By: Vlaad on 20 Nov 2005

What a nice topic.



I agree with Lord Woock about multiplayer maps, but love to use this trick in my singleplayer scenarios.

In my "Gelu's Legacy" I've managed to hide a portal behind a Dream Horseshoe (the Nightmare dwelling) and some trees. Another portal is hidden behind a volcano smoke. Since it is an RPG map, only text message can reveal those secret passages (I didn't warn you about the spoilers, but then the scenario is 3 years old ).

Furthermore, certain terrain can cover certain objects, too. For example, a mapmaker could use Clover Field to hide some rocks etc.

A single pile of resources (well hidden behind another object) can block the way and perhaps confuse the human player, at least for a while.

My favorite trick though is to cover a WATER area with special terrain (or with roads in Heroes 4), thus creating a seemingly ordinary landscape. However, the player must carefully search for a tight passage... or even summon a ship ("a skyship"! ), like in my "Underdogs" or "Truth and Justice" maps.



In WoG the possibilites are countless, because there is a script which modifies the passability of a certain square! Thus you can walk on water, sail through a desert, sneak in the woods or mountains... There is even a pre-done script which makes a whole map passable!

Mapmakers can also delete adventure objects with another script, which is great for creating RPG stories (when a certain quest has been completed, an obstacle is removed... or something like that). It's similar with the "bomb" in Heroes 4 editor, where you can delete almost every object any time.

Finally, WoG has also introduces burning trees, which disappear after a few days of fire, just like in the campaign.

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Mobius
Mobius


Hired Hero
posted November 20, 2005 06:20 PM

Hmm decided to make a list of objects that can be used for hidden passages in heroes 3 or to hide other things, let me know which ones I've missed.

1. All the castles have "hidden" space behind them
2. The two swamp tree's in the desert terrain set
3. Vlaad mentioned the special terrain tiles covering other  tiles even oceans
4. Many of the larger mountain tiles have empty space near the top
5. Alchemist's Lab
6. Crypts
7. Hill Fort
8. Tree of Knowledge
9. Large smoking volcano
10. Magic Spring
11. 2 of the two square dungeon rocks are really usefull
12. Taverns
13. Freelancer's Guild
14. Some of the creature banks
15. Subteranian gate
16. Marletto Tower
17. Windmill
18. Various creature dwellings

Vlaad also mentioned using chests or resources among other things to block hidden passages with, making it harder for a human player to find them (this is fun too ).

You can do some really sneaky stuff if you get creative with the map editor plus it looks good too.

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Vlaad
Vlaad


Admirable
Legendary Hero
ghost of the past
posted December 04, 2005 10:13 AM

e.g.

I was playing Dragonsister's Going Gold again and found this text in the zip file:

Quote:
Two-way lith behind Foothold.

Wood blocks path behind Foothold - hidden behind branches of DragonFly hive.

You must enter the Sanctuary to rescue Julia.  Be glad it isn't a swan pond!  :-)

Learning Stone and Crystal behind Pegasus Fountain in Marketplace.

Wood behind subterranean gate in Lower Marketplace.

Under mountain below Toby MacEmerald's hut: Mystic Orb of Mana.

Access to/from Lower Marketplace via Rogue cavern.  Questguard demanding equestrian gloves still necessary to access The Valley of The Pure.

Behind Dicorn: Blue one-way monolith Exit; Boots of Speed.

Clover of Fortune on University Isle; hidden under trees below pit fiends.

Behind Vertragon: Loins of Legion.

North of Nagamemnon, behind Waterwheel: Wood, purse of gold.

North of Proteome, behind Waterwheel: Talisman of Mana.

Behind The Collegium: Vial of Dragon's Blood.

Behind Mountain in Damacon's Territory: Boots of Levitation.  (Just below the lake.)

Behind Frozen Cliffs near Ambassadorial: Crystal Cloak.

Behind WaterWheel near Ambassadorial: Monolith (two way)

Behind Auragon: Tome of Water Magic (with Necklace of Bliss behind quest guard.)





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Mobius
Mobius


Hired Hero
posted December 06, 2005 10:26 AM

Just noticed in the editor that the water wheel has no empty space but the snow covered one does...strange.

Also add stables to the list a bit of space there too.

I've noticed that hidden passages only seem to be in those XL story maps most of the time.

As a side note I used the evil fog to cover a water area and create a "Lake of the Damned", looks pretty cool.

I really enjoy a good looking map because I've downloaded many maps with empty space and a bunch of structrues just plonked down without any thought to asthetics, a shame really for me that kind of thing spoils the game a bit. I have much more respect for a map maker if the landscape is nicely laid out.

More rambling I guess


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Mobius
Mobius


Hired Hero
posted December 16, 2005 12:27 AM

Ehh i thought this thread might make a good ideas topic but my more pointless skeleton thread recieved way more replies and views (admittidly many were mine), just a pity really.

Ahem to continue of course many of the new WOG objects have empty space (it seems like the WOG team did this on purpose for those sneaky map makers).

To derail myself for a bit here's one at Vlaad: Hah I recognise that avatar from age of wonders 1, nice pic btw.

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Vlaad
Vlaad


Admirable
Legendary Hero
ghost of the past
posted December 16, 2005 08:08 AM

Quote:
Ehh i thought this thread might make a good ideas topic but my more pointless skeleton thread recieved way more replies and views (admittidly many were mine), just a pity really.

I am afraid there aren't many people visiting this section of the forum, at least not so frequently. I guess we'll have to wait for the Heroes 5 editor...

But the topic is very nice!

Quote:
Ahem to continue of course many of the new WOG objects have empty space (it seems like the WOG team did this on purpose for those sneaky map makers).

Well, I don't believe the developers have done it on purpose. Early WoG objects were simply imported from other games and don't fit in many ways...

I've mentioned the same thing you noticed to Fnord (team member) once, and he told me it was normal for all Heroes 3 objects.

Quote:
To derail myself for a bit here's one at Vlaad: Hah I recognise that avatar from age of wonders 1, nice pic btw.

You're right, of course! AoW 1 was probably my favorite game ever... I look like this guy so it was easy to find an avatar for HC...

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LordZXZX
LordZXZX


Famous Hero
Overfished
posted December 16, 2005 02:51 PM

I've played several maps with powerful creatres guarding seemingly ordinary buildings.(eg: a neutral titan army guarding a hill fort). But until u look closer, you might just miss that tiny relic hidden behind those buildings. Also the AI seems to know more about the hidden path than human players. Often I've seen their heroes go missing around those areas with hidden paths.

One evil trick is to turn off the path indicater, then ask some1 to go to a certain location only to fight neutral creeps hidden behind the empty spaces. (Works on some over-enthusiastic newbs)
____________
...

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Mobius
Mobius


Hired Hero
posted December 18, 2005 10:41 AM

Heh good to see at least some people are still interested in map editing.

I've got an idea...but it requires me to buy some sever space to upload some screenshots. What I'm gonna do sometime after christmas is post some shots of a few maps I'm working on (one Dungeon/Inferno campaign with two maps completed and one XL WOG map) of hidden things and ask people to spot them and then later post an edited shot of all the hidden things and see if people found them all. It's like a treausre hunt

I wonder about the wisdom though of putting effort into making H3 maps, with H5 just around the corner. Well hopefully at least some people will play these maps when I get around to finishing them and playtesting them like no tomorrow.

Would you be interested in helping me playtest Vladd or anyone else who's interested?

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Vlaad
Vlaad


Admirable
Legendary Hero
ghost of the past
posted December 18, 2005 01:58 PM

Quote:
I've got an idea...but it requires me to buy some sever space to upload some screenshots.

You can use Photobucket or HC's own upload center.

Quote:
I wonder about the wisdom though of putting effort into making H3 maps, with H5 just around the corner.

Well, there are still two months to go!

Quote:
Would you be interested in helping me playtest Vladd or anyone else who's interested?

Sadly, no. I'm spending most of my free time creating a four-map campaign for the next WoG project...

Perhaps you should ask someone at ByteBandit's Map Archives...

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Walhavar
Walhavar

Tavern Dweller
posted May 08, 2006 02:03 PM

Secrets are good, if they are not composed with weard and different terrains, which would pull attention
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