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| Thread: Best Fifth Level Creature... |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 3 4 5 6 · «PREV / NEXT» |
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MrHulkkis
Tavern Dweller
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posted March 08, 2011 05:22 PM |
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Best: Mighty Gorgon. for reasons already mentioned.
Favourite: Master Genie. I always liked the idea of own units being spellcasters. (which made Homm 4 very nice for me)
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Urosius
Tavern Dweller
prso ki lajsna
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posted March 15, 2011 04:24 PM |
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Mighty Gorgons too!
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ohforfsake
Promising
Legendary Hero
Initiate
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posted March 23, 2011 06:12 PM |
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I rank the level 5 units accordingly, not taking into consideration the importance of the Pit Lord speciality for the Inferno Town, or the Master Genies random spells, etc.:
1) Master Genie - They've weak defensive, but their offensive is great
2) Power Lich - very very powerful!
3) Thunderbird - Very strong unit
4) Minotaur Kings - They're solid, but can still loose to Vamp Lords
5) Pit Lord - Rather unimpressive, gets beaten by Vamp Lords. Would be nr. 1 if the specialty had any in battle effect.
6) Mighty Gorgons - Their speed betrays them, they're an easy target, gets beaten by Vamp Lords
7) Zealots - Weaker than Sharp Shooters
8) Dendroid Soldiers - Weaker than many level 4's.
9) Magma Elements - Weaker than many level 4's.
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Fauch
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted March 24, 2011 03:29 AM |
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I doubt dendroids are weaker than many level 4. maybe archmages. you get 8 of them per week, that is as many as most level 4 units, and they are stronger.
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stage
Hired Hero
Lupine Monkey God
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posted March 24, 2011 03:54 AM |
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Edited by stage at 03:57, 24 Mar 2011.
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I agree with Fauch.
Also, depends what you mean by weaker. Dendroids can absorb a lot of damage with their 55-65upgraded Health and 12 Defence, which if not mistaken, is making them the best defence 5th level unit. Also you have to think twice before hitting them, as that unit will be stuck and won't be able to attack priority targets.
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liophy
Famous Hero
Bulgarian
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posted March 24, 2011 10:58 AM |
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Edited by liophy at 11:22, 24 Mar 2011.
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In real game you never have one Level 5 monster against another level 5 monster.
Its about how usefull they are in real game. 75% of the game is decided before the final battle. So the most important thing is how usefull is the monster in fighting against the map.
Dendroids are very, very slow. This is what makes them hard to use. In some rare cases they could be usefull. Mostly for sacrifice in hard battles (like Utopias and griffin cons). But in general, they are not that usefull.
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I play Heroes 3 Online at: www.heroes-III.com
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tigris
Supreme Hero
Supreme Noobolator
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posted March 24, 2011 12:43 PM |
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mino kings get in!
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ohforfsake
Promising
Legendary Hero
Initiate
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posted March 24, 2011 01:19 PM |
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Hello tigris! Why did you stop this thread? It was great to look at!
Regarding my list.
#1 If you want to compare units based on how good they're for you in a standard multiplayer game, then yes surely their individual capabilities are not as important as what they actually can do for you combined. As liophy states, there are really two places to use these units in such a game, I believe. In the creeping face and in the main battle.
#2 However my list is not about what units you should choose if you're in an online game, it's merely a test where 100 units of different stacks battle eachother, using wait, but not morale. Further more, in these battles, certain specialities, such as the Pit Lords demon raising, the master genies spells and the Dendrois are often next to useless.
Dendroids have their tactical possibility in that they can be the health of the archer, while the archer is the damage of the dendroid. The main problem with this though, is when you really need such a setup, both you and your opponent will probably have seven stacks, meaning the Dendroid, should the archer not get captured, most likely only can bind 1 stack anyway.
Anyway to answer Fauch, in 100 vs. 100, different stacks, no morale, can use wait, equal stats among heroes, etc. the Dendroids loose to the following level 4's: Medusa Queen, Arch Magi, Sharp Shooter and Vampire Lords.
Of course in a real battle, with the proper spells, etc. it's not so straight forward to say what beats what, because it gets much more dependent of the heroes and their skills than the actual units. I mean if you have expert fire blind against a single stack opponent, isn't it suddenly only speed and mana that suddenly really matters?
Further more. The 8 growth pr. week is irrelevant in my tests, because it's not a comparision of power/growth, but for power of 100 units under certain conditions.
I'm certain Dendrois would do better against other level 5's if their growth advantage were to be used, but they'd still do exactly the same versus the level 4's who I believe have the same growth rate.
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Fauch
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
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posted March 24, 2011 01:58 PM |
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you could also say that ogre mages are bad because they lose to level 4 shooters, but they are still usually the last stronghold creature still standing.
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angelito
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
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posted March 24, 2011 03:46 PM |
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This 100 vs 100 scenario doesn't make much sense.
A whole town line up is a "team" in itself. Some town have weaker level 7 units (necro), but strong level 4 and 5 instead.
Others have strong level 2 and 3 (flux), but horrible level 4 and 5.
Also, the usefullness in battle AND the building order in town is much more important than only stats.
This is what makes cyclops kings the worst unit upon all level 6 for example.
Wyverns on the other hand may look weak on first sight, but you can have them day 2 latest, and get reinforcement from neutral buildings on the map (hives), which makes them the most used level 6 unit in game I suppose...
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Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.
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Drakon-deus
Undefeatable Hero
Qapla'
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posted March 25, 2011 10:38 AM |
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I tried to stage 100 vs 100 battles and similar scenarios too with the editor, but yes they're not really relevant, quite unlikely to take place in a real game. I also staged full town line-ups fights but it's also unlikely that the two players will have equal armies in a real situation.
As for the level 5 creatures, Dendroid Soldiers have the binding abilty, pit Lords can summon demons and Thunderbirds have their Lightning, but the Mighty Gorgons are the best with their death stare. I also like Mino Kings and Power Liches.
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JoonasTo
Responsible
Undefeatable Hero
What if Elvin was female?
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posted March 25, 2011 11:08 AM |
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And you can't forget a lot of the time inferno strategy relies on pitlords...
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DON'T BE A NOOB, JOIN A.D.V.E.N.T.U.R.E.
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ohforfsake
Promising
Legendary Hero
Initiate
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posted March 25, 2011 11:29 AM |
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Quote:
This 100 vs 100 scenario doesn't make much sense.
The thread about the best. Not the best in regard X.
I like testing creatures strength individually. It gives a good feel of order in the world of heroes. Doing this kind of stuff, you won't expect you can take out obesidian gargoyles, just because you've orc chieftans, as an example.
See how many people thinks different units are weak due to low health, or strong due to high health. It depends a LOT on the situation what given single stat will be the dominant. Some times your defense doesn't matter. Sometimes it's pretty much all that matters.
In a final battle, I'd of course much prefer having mighty gorgons rather than pit lord. But while creeping, I'd rather have the pit lords.
I even doubt mighty gorgons are the best among the level 5's when it actually comes to a final battle, simply because they're likely to act very late, either in round 1 or round 2, but again, it depends against who.
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c0ldshadow
Known Hero
ig chr0meice91
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posted March 31, 2011 08:02 AM |
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1) mighty gorgon (although not as good vs necro and flux b/c special no works)
2) thunderbird (fly, 2hex size for blocking shooters is underrated especially for 2 shooters that hav melee penalty, and lightning strike puts them above minotaur)
3) minotaur king
4) pit lord (because demon special, they have somewhat low health but allow your army to get health back basically by converting dead to demons. they do good damage. 
5) power lich
6) zealot
7) dendroids
8) magma ele.
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OhforfSake
Promising
Legendary Hero
Initiate
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posted April 12, 2011 07:14 AM |
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So I thought I'd do some more tests with the master genie.
Actually, if played right, these guys are incredible powerful! It of course have a factor of luck, but it's very likely that 100 master genies can take out 100 Naga Queens, 100 Dread Knights, etc.
As long as the opposing unit is slower. Heck even 100 Chaos Hydras were defeated, but here the likelihood is much much lower.
This is with two heroes of equal stats (0/0/1/1), no spells, no secondary skills and on desert terrain.
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Living time backwards
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tigris
Supreme Hero
Supreme Noobolator
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posted April 12, 2011 11:22 AM |
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Quote:
So I thought I'd do some more tests with the master genie.
Actually, if played right, these guys are incredible powerful! It of course have a factor of luck, but it's very likely that 100 master genies can take out 100 Naga Queens, 100 Dread Knights, etc.
As long as the opposing unit is slower. Heck even 100 Chaos Hydras were defeated, but here the likelihood is much much lower.
This is with two heroes of equal stats (0/0/1/1), no spells, no secondary skills and on desert terrain.
of course it's easy to defeat monsters with much bigger attack/defense but i have a cheeky feeling your tests are a bit flawed.
i think you split your MG in 1/1/1/1/1/1/94 and attacked 1 stack of monsters controlled by the computer.that actually isn't that much of a test, just standard human is better than the computer.
you can kill 100 hydras in one stack with 1 master gremlin, one ammo cart and one obsydian gargoyle.
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OhforfSake
Promising
Legendary Hero
Initiate
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posted April 12, 2011 11:27 AM |
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I control both heroes and thereby both monsters. I play as good as I can.
100 dread knights is in 1 stack, master genies are, like you said, 1/1/.../94.
If you have a better suggestion on how to play with the Dread Knights, please tell!
I don't remember the speed of hydras, but if it's below 5, I believe you can just fly from one part of the battle field to the other, while all 7 stacks follow, without one ever being able to reach (requires speed 9 or 10 of the luring stack, right?).
If that's not how you do, please tell!
Edit: Of course the heroes aren't interacting with the battle. Many spells, would completely turn the tides.
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Living time backwards
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angelito
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
proud father of a princess
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posted April 12, 2011 01:13 PM |
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Lol....
How about 100 sprites vs 100 hydras?
Sprites are better than hydras I guess....
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Better judged by 12 than carried by 6.
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OhforfSake
Promising
Legendary Hero
Initiate
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posted April 12, 2011 01:34 PM |
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Well, if there are obstacles, maybe. Otherwise can't you just position the 7 stacks of hydras, so the sprites can't retreat to a safe place? I have an image on that in my head. That is, if Hydras have at least a speed of 4, but maybe 3 is also enough.
Edit: If I remember correct. A creature with speed of 9, in the center of battle field, can reach all points. Would 5 creatures with a speed of 3 then be able to do the same? How about 7?
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Living time backwards
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Peterlerock
Adventuring Hero
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posted April 12, 2011 01:47 PM |
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Isn't this discussion completly useless?
Against wandering stacks, you can defeat almost every composition of any numbers of any creature with whatever you have as an "army", if you have the right spells and army composition.
Hero vs. Hero, it's much more difficult. 100 Pixies, can they take more than one lightning bolt?... Not to speak of "Blind" and stuff... I would put my money on the 100 Hydras here... ;-)
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