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Heroes Community > Library of Enlightenment > Thread: Primary skills limited to 99
Thread: Primary skills limited to 99 This thread is 2 pages long: 1 2 · «PREV
Ecoris
Ecoris


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted May 13, 2006 05:00 PM

The bonus is fixed for heroes with a spell as their speciality? Interesting I must say. I found the following formula once for heros who specialized in the bless spell:

Additional bonus (besides the max damage and the +1 bonus): 3% * hero's level / creatures level

This is indeed an odd formula too odd just to be made up, but I have never tested it myself.

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Ecoris
Ecoris


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted May 14, 2006 01:22 PM
Edited by Ecoris at 17:37, 12 Jul 2006.

Quote:
Minor thing: are you sure about the formula?

regeneration = Int( x * (1 + n*0,05)) + 1


Yes I am sure about that formula.


Quote:
Discussed earlier was that it's not a growth, but a power. I suggest this formula...

regeneration = Int( x * (1 + n^0,05)) + 1


Where was this discussed? I've never seen a power formula suggested before.

Your formula is not correct though.

Regeneration for a hero with mysticism as speciality.
Level 10, advanced:
Power formula: 7 (7.37)
My test: 5

Level 68, expert:
Power formula: 9 (9.94)
My test: 18

The linear formula Int( x * (1 + n*0,05)) + 1 gives the correct values in the menitoned two cases and in all the others I did.

The power formula as a function of n grows very slowly. Besides, for all other 5% per level bonuses the formula is Int( x * (1 + n*0,05)).
I wanted to see if it was the same with mysticism since the bonus would be very small. I discovered that mysticism rounds up instead of down. Otherwise there would be no bonus at low levels so i guess nwc decided to round up. If the calculated value is an integer (this happens at level 0 and 20) it will still be increased by +1. I.e. the value X is rounded to the nearest integer greater than X.

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night_on_earth
night_on_earth


Hired Hero
posted September 25, 2006 10:31 AM

on Adela/Bless and Coronius/Slayer

I just completed some tests (Heroes complete version) concerning Adela's Bless speciality and Coronius' Slayer speciality.

LegendMaker

Quote:
Quote:
I'm wondering what effect of having a spell as a speciality is [...]


Back in the happy happy days of the Not in the Manual thread's glory, Xarfax made a bunch of tests for at least the following spell specialists : Solmyr, Terek, Loynis. Those three were then checked and retested by either me or Bin, and made it to the final version of our tavern rumors project. Some more tests have been made during one of Angel's Weekly Library Questions session, also including Brissa (exactly the same as Terek).

According to Loynis, his specialty gives an extra +3 speed to level 1-2, +2 speed to Level 3-4, +1 speed to level 5-6, but no extra speed to level 7. (Xarfax)

[... same for Terek, ...]

Solmyr is my good friend. He just told me his Chain lightning did very little additional damage to level 7 creatures! (Xarfax)

Verified by me :

OKAY as is. Well, Iíll let you make yourselves an opinion on these results :



To me itís clear it DOES have an effect on Level 7. But the ďalmostĒ part makes up for the relatively puny impact it has compared to when you cast it on Level 1.

ALL those testings lead to the conclusion that Spell Specialists only give a FIXED bonus to their fetish spell, depending on the level of the targetted creatures and nothing else


Unfortunately, I have to contradict on the last conclusion. I am in the happy situation, that I can still read Xarfax' conclusions on his tests concerning heroes specialities in Drachenwald , the leading german HoMM site. There he points out, that the effect of damaging spells is calculated by:

Bonus in % = HeroesLevel x 3% / UnitLevel

The effect is twofold. Damage increases by the level of the hero with an appropriate spell speciality, but due to the denominator, low level creatures are affected more.

Secondly, as Ecoris suspected
Quote:
The bonus is fixed for heroes with a spell as their speciality? Interesting I must say. I found the following formula once for heros who specialized in the bless spell:

Additional bonus (besides the max damage and the +1 bonus): 3% * hero's level / creatures level



this was already mentioned by SOS in this thread.

Quote:

+base damage * 3% * hero's level / creature's level if creature has Bless and the hero has the Bless special ability.



I have tested this for Adela and her Bless speciality, and the results support what SOS quoted. Therefor Bless seems to be considered as a damage spell. Note that the level of the attacking creature is important, because bless is casted on it. If someone is interested, I can supply the test data.

Coronius and Slayer

Coronius' Slayer speciality was terra incognita for me, because Xarfax mentioned it as unsolved in his tests. Because it is not a direct damage spell, one could expect an effect like the one described above concerning Loynis, Terek, Cyra and so on. Slayer is a fourth level fire spell. The description in the manual states:


Basic Effect: Target, allied troopís attack rating is increased by eight against behemoths, dragons, and hydras.
Advanced Effect: Same as Basic Effect, except that attack bonus also affects devils and angels.
Expert Effect: Same as Advanced Effect, except attack bonus also affects titans.


Two questions came to my mind. Are bone/ghost dragons considered as dragons? What about firebirds/phoenix? My tests demonstrated, that both creature classes are affected by Slayer on basic fire magic.

I further compared Coronius and Uland with the same stats and expert fire magic/Slayer spell in the very same battles. Then I tested the effect of Slayer on several levels of Coronius. The results surprised me, because they are different to the other heroes' spell specialities.


The attack value of level 1 creatures is further increased by 4.
The attack value of level 2 creatures is further increased by 3.
The attack value of level 3 creatures is further increased by 2.
The attack value of level 4 creatures is further increased by 1.
The attack value of level 5,6,7 creatures is not further increased.
Coronius speciality has an instant effect and is not further enhanced by higher levels.


If somebody would like to know more about my tests, I can send the data by email. I think, it is too much raw data to be posted here. Any feedback is welcome. Next project is Zubin's Precision speciality.
____________
night on earth

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doom3d
doom3d


Known Hero
Avatar of general Z
posted April 06, 2007 09:40 PM

re:

Just a little feedback..

Damage on main target, differences between Solmyr and Halon:

632-396= 236 on lvl1, 420-396=24 on lvl7.
Now, 236:24 is.. (sigh) 9.83333.. (= 59/6 )

If Bonus in % = HeroesLevel x 3% / UnitLevel for chain lightning, then it must be here 7/1= 7.

If Bonus in % = HeroesLevel x 3% / UnitLevel +base bonus, then I end up with:

236= 7y +1x, 24= 1y +1x => y=35.333 and x= -11.333 (yes, negative!)

It seems, that the numbers above in the table, and your formulae can't be ok at the same time for chain lightning.

Anybody has more test data including lvl2-6?

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Ecoris
Ecoris


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted April 09, 2007 04:46 PM

I don't understand your numbers. Solmyr's damage bonus is a percentage value, not a damage value.

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doom3d
doom3d


Known Hero
Avatar of general Z
posted April 09, 2007 06:33 PM
Edited by doom3d at 18:34, 09 Apr 2007.

Quote:
I don't understand your numbers. Solmyr's damage bonus is a percentage value, not a damage value.


If the bonus is divided by creature level, and You divide actual value for lvl1 by value for lvl7, then it will be 7:1=7, is it right?
Regardless that You count actual % values, or actual damage.
I have copied out those numbers from the colored table above.
Bonus for a given situation is full damage with spec. - full damage w/o spec. (Solmyr's damage - Halon's damage, same lvl, same power, same skill lvl in this case) I used damage on main target (=targeted creature).
And get 9.8333.. instead of 7.0. => formulae is not ok, or numbers are not correct. (Or I misunderstood something.)

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Ecoris
Ecoris


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted April 09, 2007 06:39 PM

And what about Sorcery? While I am not sure how the sorcery bonus and the specilality bonus for Solmyr add up sorcery is clearly present on both Halon and Solmyr in your tests.
What where their common spell power?

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doom3d
doom3d


Known Hero
Avatar of general Z
posted April 10, 2007 09:06 PM

Quote:
And what about Sorcery? While I am not sure how the sorcery bonus and the specilality bonus for Solmyr add up sorcery is clearly present on both Halon and Solmyr in your tests.
What where their common spell power?


These tests are not mine.
I have seen this table in LegendMaker's post. If I understood correctly, it was tested by him. I guess that the numbers are correct.
About sorcery level and common spell power: it was in the table!

Best Regards,

Doom3d

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Ecoris
Ecoris


Promising
Supreme Hero
posted April 11, 2007 10:41 AM

Ok I see now. This is how it works:

With spell power = 8 the base damage is 8*40+25 = 345 (without air magic).
Expert sorcery gives a 15% bonus: 345*1.15 = 396.75 which is rounded down to 396.
Halon always deals this amount of damage to the first troop struck.
Solmyr gives an additional 3% * (his level)/(target's level). If the level 20 Solmyr targets a level 1 troop he gets a 3% * 20 / 1 = 60% bonus for a total of 396*1.6 = 633.6 which is rounded down to 633.
I got this value in my test. Perhaps Legend made a typo in his table that says 632.

When the target is a level 7 troop the calculations goes like this:
Base damage is still 345. Sorcery increases this to 396 just like before. Now Solmyr gives a 6% bonus (because 20/7 = 2; integer division) which gives 396*1.06 = 419.76. Ok, it should be 420.

Now there are a lot of integer roundoffs in such calculations (always down). Exactly in which order the various bonuses are added and when roundoffs take place is a bit unclear; I couldn't come up with one formula that gave the correct value in every single case.

But that's not really that important; I mean, how many play H3 with their calculator right next to them?
The important thing to notice is how the bonuses are calculated and how multiple bonuses affect each other.
As you may know, when a unit attacks if it has mukltiple damage bonuses (offense, high attack skill, etc.) they all refer to the base damage; they're additive so to speak.

With spells the bonuses affect each other. If you have expert sorcery you get 15% bonus. The Orb gives 50% for a total of 72.5% NOT 65% as would be the case with combat damage bonuses.

So the formula for spells is: Total damage = (Base damage) * (1 + Sorcery bonus) * (1 + speciality bonus) * (1 + Orb bonus)
where Sorcery bonus is 0.05, 0.10 or 0.15 depending on skill level. The speciality bonus is as descibed above and the orb bonus is 0,50 (i.e. 50%).
So in the example with a level 20 Solmyr casting chain lightning on a level 7 troop the calculation would be done like this:
base damage = 40*8+25 = 345
sorcery bonus = 0.15 (expert sorcery)
speciality bonus = 3% * 20/7 = 6% or 0.06
orb bonus: none

So the troop takes 345 * 1.15 * 1.06 = 420 points of damage.

Finally notice that the damage chain lightning deals to the second, third, fourth (and possibly fifth) stack is calculated seperately. The speciality bonus is calculated using each stack's level; it's not just 50% of the damage dealt to the stack before that.
So if the chain lightning strikes a level 2 stack after the first one it deals 345 * 1.15 * 1.30 / 2 = 257 points of damage. The speciality bonus is 30% in this calculation.

I hope this clears things up.

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doom3d
doom3d


Known Hero
Avatar of general Z
posted April 11, 2007 08:43 PM
Edited by doom3d at 19:06, 21 Apr 2007.

Hi,

OK. So the trick in the calculation was integer division for bonus %.
(20/7)*3=6, and not 20*3:7=8 or floating point.
-> ratio not 7:1. Thanks.

Doom3d

UPDATE: I have ran some tests. After some rounds with hero lvl, I ended up with a hero around 87-85-99-99. Now I levelup'd again, and counted actual knowledge based on numbers of +1 knowledge bonuses.
Results:
100,103,111, 116 interpreted as "99".
137, 138, 147,152 displayed as "1".

After that I leveup'd to lvl 868 (+228 Knowledge), and get "99" displayed as knowledge.

Interpretation: Internal primary skill values are stored as signed 8bit integers. So all calculations are done modulo256 on range -128;+127. Displayed values are also used to calculate max. mana, spell damage, dmg, and minimum displayed is 0-0-1-1, max. 99-99-99-99.

So now 116+21=137 ~ -119. Displayed "1".
-119, -118, -109, -104. -> "1".
-104+228= +114, displayed "99".

Check out my hero here: http://www.kepfeltolto.hu/?img=het

During these tests are also recognised, that would be easier to test this question by using revisitable events that give +1 and +10 to skill.



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