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Heroes Community > Heroes 4 - Lands of Axeoth > Thread: some various contradictions
Thread: some various contradictions
Gerdash
Gerdash


Responsible
Famous Hero
from the Animated Peace
posted September 15, 2001 09:51 PM

some various contradictions

1: CREATURE ABILITIES

TITAN'S HELM AND GIANTSLAYER
the titan looks nice imho, except the helm that looks bit out of place compared to his other armour (well, i don't really like the look of the helm also). also, he is supposed to be a shooter, so i wonder how he can shoot well with his helm covering his eyes almost completely (the homm3 titan was much better from that point of view). now, the question is: is the titan immune to the hobbit's gantslayer ability? if he is immune, this helm would make sense, but on the other hand, the titan looks like the most perfect giant, so being immune to giantslayer would sound really weird.

FIRST STRIKE
now.. when a creature with first strike ability attacks another creature with first strike ability, who will hit first? or is it like attacking and defending with normal monsters? the only creature that is free of that contradiction seems to be the dragon golem that has first strike negation on the opponent. will the first strike ability be effective against multiple attacks in the same round? imho the first strike ability might give too large advantage when the stack is large, and might be difficult to balance the way it is announced. also, i don't like the first strike ability too much, and would be happyer if it was removed.

2: CREATURE APPEARANCE

well, imho the style of the graphics is of major importance (is this a personal problem with me?). imho the heroes4 screenshots that i have seen so far are better than i expected, but the creatures that don't fit the style stick the eye the more unpleasantly. like in homm3 the wolves may be one of the most useful creatures in inferno, but for me they are just meat requred for the demons, just because their graphics does not go with the style (they look like clumsy teddy bears, sorry if i am offending the artist).

MINOTAUR
yeah, here is another monster that has the head of a horned bear (instead of a head of a bull this time).

VAMPIRE
i like the attitude of the vampire (the impression on his face), but his clothing does not seem to suit anything close to 15-th century at all (like the appearance of most of the other creatures does). this hurts. is it impossible to have a vampire who is not a few hundred years ahead of his time experimenting with fashion?

WOLVES AND DOGS
i havn't seen a larger picture of a wolf yet, but i have some reasons to suspect that the wolves will be too realistic. i personally prefer style over realism anytime. as far as i have seen some medieval paintings, the animals look bit difefrent there (well, could not find the best examples at such a short notice, but those should make the point:
http://www.abcgallery.com/B/bosch/bosch42.html
for a small dog and
http://www.abcgallery.com/B/bosch/bosch43.html
for a few pigs.
i.e. animals, especially the dogs and the pigs, seem to have their head, neck, front part of the body, and slenderness of their legs out of proportion. also applies to humans in some form, but that part of the game graphics is already usually very nice as far as i have seen the screenshots)

BUILDINGS THAT LOOK LIKE A HEAD
well.. would you build a house that would look like a head of a human? i can understand that this makes the purpose of the building easier to understand, but on the other hand, the buildings do not look very nice that way imho.

WALLS
i cannot remember any paintings where they would have drawn buildings with the help of a ruler (sticks in the eye when everything else looks as if it has been drawn by hand), also i don't remember many paintings of that style where they would have drawn each brick in the building invidually (at least not in such detail). maybe the fortifications would look better if they didn't look so perfect.

DRAGON GOLEM
there has been a debate about the infamous dragon golem (i wonder how many ppl would be seriously unhappy if the creature was remade).. well, at the gui (graphical user interface) lectures they say that the appearance of a good gui should enable the user to intuitively guess what button he should click. the appearance of the dragon golem, i.e. all the shiny mech-like parts, etc, and the dr watson (with glasses) sitting inside makes me intuitively guess that this is a tech and mech monster. or at least a hybride of a medieval monster and some modern tech thing the medieval ppl could not even have dreamed about.

3: MISCELLANIOUS

ANGEL AND CRUSADER
an angel would beat the crusader anytime. i have heard that warriors fell flat on the face when they saw an angel (should be in some story in the bible).

NATURAL ENEMIES
what if the natural enemies were berserk against each other, the probablility of them attacking each other would depend on distance on the battlefield.. now that the morale does not look so important anymore..

*******
assuming that if i don't like one creature, i can pick the other.. but this decision often has nothing to do with strategy, but graphics instead. also, it seems that i will be avoiding the academy town, because i like neither of the top level creatures too much.. oh, well.. but that's why i play the game - the style and the small details.
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LordPaul
LordPaul


Promising
Famous Hero
Crazy Bat Guy.
posted September 15, 2001 11:11 PM

.......


Just for the record, the Minotuar does have a bull head.  The boar head is an Orc, probably.  

Pikemen also have first strike negation ability.  Golem Dragons have it, but also have First Strike.  This won't make them too strong, it will just like being the first to strike in Heroes 3.  No different.

If both creatures have first strike, they will strike at the same time.

Devils have Life Ward, and Angels have Death Ward.  So it would be very unlikely to have them in the same army.

The wolves look cool.  And the Cerebri, from the Inferno, are now in the Necro.


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Gerdash
Gerdash


Responsible
Famous Hero
from the Animated Peace
posted September 15, 2001 11:22 PM

hmm.. yeah, i said it a bit vaguely: minotaur's head on the the homm4 picture looks like the head of a bear with horns to me rather than a head of a bull as it should be.
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Shadow_Phoenix
Shadow_Phoenix


Known Hero
Shadow Ruler
posted September 15, 2001 11:31 PM

I don't understand why a lot of ppl complain about the Dragon Golem. Just think, in a world where magic exist, why couldn't it be a magic animated creature that looks like a machine? And another thing, mech apears often in fantasy worlds, they apear so much that Gnomes are known to be great inventors, just like Dwarfs are known to be good smiths. And great fantasy games use some mechs (warcraft, fantasy general, Baldur's gate, Magic the Gathering and even in D&D). If mechs are made currectly that can really had a lot to a fantasy world and I think Dragon Golems are really cool.

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Gerdash
Gerdash


Responsible
Famous Hero
from the Animated Peace
posted September 16, 2001 09:15 AM

well.. the dragon golem discussion has been going on for quite a while, and i am not really expecting to be the chosen one who now explains it to everybody.. but i havn't posted much on this subject, so i will gladly say out my opinion to make me feel better.

e.g. if i created a web browser where the 'back' button  worked like the scrollbar up arrow and the scrollbar up arrow worked like a back button, and said that you just have to think when you use the browser..
1) would you use the browser and think every time you use the 'back' button or scroll arrow?
2) or would you not use the browser and think that i should change this button and the arrow back to normal?

same problem here.. i would have to think each time i see the dragon golem. sth like: 'this is all magical, despite the springs, and that the dr watson is there just for decoration,' and i would still know that this is a lie and the dragon is a mech monster because there doesn't seem to be anything that would make me think that it is not (except that mech monsters don't fit the medieval style).

on the other hand, the shape of the legs of the dragon golem may indicate that the homm4 artists think that spider like creatures are ok :-9, maybe there will be an arachne or sth in the preserve, the dendroids really worked fine combined with elves sometimes in homm3..
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Shadow_Phoenix
Shadow_Phoenix


Known Hero
Shadow Ruler
posted September 16, 2001 03:47 PM

Ok, Dragon Golems might have a robot look, but I think their look does really fits the fantasy world. Hmm2 golems were also very mechanic looking but ppl didn't complain about them, I think they were the coolest looking golems of the hmm series. I'm against of mechanical units that doesn't fit the world their in (like that crazy Forge Town with goblins with machine guns, zombies with chainsaws, minotaurs with jetpacks) but I think a creature like Dragom Golems really fit the world. I know that I will not convince anyone that are against them, but  this is my opinion.

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hydro1234
hydro1234

Tavern Dweller
posted September 16, 2001 08:44 PM

0629

Where did you get all the creature abilities from? Is there a list somewhere?
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Gerdash
Gerdash


Responsible
Famous Hero
from the Animated Peace
posted September 17, 2001 05:39 AM

well.. actually i do not believe that starting another dragon golem thread would add anything new. but it would be interesting to read what other ppl think about:

titan's helm and the giantslayer ability of the halfling (well.. also arrow damage against some monsters that don't bleed or cosist of bones, maybe)

the first strike overpowering potential in large stacks, i.e. has anyone calculated a large stack (25..50) of black dragons vs a large stack of dragon golems? i know the black dragon is stronger 1 vs 1, but i am afraid it may be quite different with large stacks. i know first stike is like in homm3, but wasn't a stack of e.g. 1000 demons (e.g. in month 4) overpowered in homm3?

realistic graphics vs medieval style (can a creature or building that has poor style graphics be disliked although it may be a useful one?)

perfectly straight lines of the fortification walls in an otherways hand-drawn style picture

buildings that look like a head of a monster (e.g. a head of a wolf or a skeleton)

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BlueGreen
BlueGreen


Adventuring Hero
Master Of Swords
posted September 17, 2001 07:52 AM

I think the Dragon Golem goes really well for the castle that it is located in, because of the fact that the town has gnomes and things in it. It is generally a town of wisdom and knowledge so thy are able to structure these mechanical machines. They are not futuristic, just mechanical and i think they will work well in the game
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Gerdash
Gerdash


Responsible
Famous Hero
from the Animated Peace
posted September 18, 2001 07:06 PM

hmm.. cavalry has always been considered stronger than infantry.. why would a hero dismount when he goes to battle? in homm3 they didn't dismount, i wonder why the game developers suddenly changed their mind and created another small contradiction here?

btw i liked the homm3 imps a lot, they were so nice with their running nose, baby-like body and tiny flapping wings.. i had a plan to suggest returning the homm3 style imps (sth like make them teleport after they have moved the distance they could normally move, but you have ordered them to move further, or teleport over an obstacle in a battlefield, while the total number of hexes they can teleport in a battle would be limited. so they would be sth between flyers and spellcasers). but well.. the beavis and butthead style homm4 imp looks nice either.. imho it's not necessary to have dragon golems to make the game less serious.. imho the medieval-style creatures may be funny enough sometimes.
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