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Lady_Milena
Honorable
Known Hero
Grannie Sweet Cheeks
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posted August 09, 2006 04:35 PM |
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Meaningful life
Some time ago I was adding thoughts in my online diary that I went through today because I've been reflecting on the issue of meaningful life. This is the extract from the diary that got me thinking:
What is the criteria?
Is being badly sick leading a half life? How about being stuck in a marriage with a spouse that you disdain? What is it to starve yourself with diets just to look pretty so that your BF wouldn't abandon you? Or to work 12 hours a day 7 days in a week to pay off student loans until the end of your life?
Are those men and women over a hundred years old with health issues and deceased family having a doubled life or is half nonetheless? And how about those promiment people like Jesus and the saints who died before their reached their middle age? Their natural life was halved but was because of their deeds actually doubled?
So after a conversation today I got back to these words and starting thinking about my own life. It consists of what? I work 9 hours a day, 6 days in a week and commute for 2 more, which makes it 66 hours of work/work-related time off my life. I sleep for 9 hours a day too, I'm usually tired. In other words I have approximately 40 hours a week for myself, to have food, shower, use the computer at home, see my mother, go out with friends.
I don't have children, I'm not planning on having any if I'm in my right mind. I'm single without a prospect of changing this state, once because I've never been in a normal relationship and second because with one day off a week I can hardly meet anyone (work place is not an option either). I have future plans - mostly hopes - but they seem far away and none of them is even 50% guaranteed to happen. I'm sitting here right now in my office contemplating, wondering if my life is meaningful and if yes, in what way. Is there any meaning of this mechanic to wake up, go to work that pays OK but you don't really love, go back home to eat and sleep and get up to work again, provided you have no spouse/lover/BF/GF, no children and only a few friends.
Don't get me wrong here, I'm not at all looking for someone to pat my shoulder and say my life has a meaning. We know that we exist as we breathe, sleep, eat. But existing doesn't really mean living, no? What I want to know is, what makes your life meaningful? What is it that makes it worth living?
I'm looking forward to your stories. I'm also interested to hear what you think is a 'meaningless' life.
Thank you.
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God does not need exist to save us...
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Nidhgrin
Honorable
Famous Hero
baking cookies from stardust
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posted August 09, 2006 05:20 PM |
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I believe everyone gives meaning to their life differently. For some people it's living by the rules of their religion, which gives them comfort and the feeling they belong to a bigger whole. For others it's trying to reach a certain status, and through material wealth, job status or titel, they gain the respect from others and often themselves to be able to feel succesful. Others tend to seek power, and control over systems, companies or a part of society in order to feel valued and meaningful. Some people dedicate their lives in service of others, and feel that by contributing to society and cyphering theirselves away they will make the world a better place, and find meaning in that. Biologically speaking you could say having and raising children should give one's life meaning.
So what I'm trying to say is how you can make your life more meaningful depends mostly on who you are, and which things in life are most important to you. Play a role in those areas and your life should naturally become more meaningful.
Through my work I help people get employed, and help employers find the right person for the right job. Approximately once a month I work to try and resolve problematic individual situations in Israel, Colombia and the great lake region in Afrika, in a local Amnesty group. I try to always be there for friends and family when they need me, and go far to help them when they are in trouble somehow. I'm generally positive, chat away and smile at people, help people cross the road and stuff like that, ... Just trying to be open most of the time. I believe that if I can make a few people smile or feel better each day, there's a chance that they will be more positive to others in turn. And if you continue to put so much positive energy in other people a life long, then some parts of it will light fire in a few of those people and continue on burning, hopefully even long after I'm gone. This probably sounds rather naive but hey, isn't that the case with most beliefs?
To continue on that thought, I believe that if everyone dedicated just a tiny bit of their time to reduce the suffering of other people (including your own), then wouldn't the world slowly start becoming a better place? That thought is what gives my life meaning.
If you add it all up, it's not much. I know... But it's enough for me, and it keeps me going.
Good luck 
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ruby
Promising
Known Hero
crazed swede
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posted August 09, 2006 06:37 PM |
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Even though I am quite young and haven't experienced things like getting married, choosing to have kids or not, and things as such, there are still things in my life that make it meaningless or meaningful.
For me personally, I think of it as meaningless to do what society tells me is correct. I follow my own path, not in an illegal sense, but in the sense that I didn't start dressing like I was 20 when I was 13. I follow my own path in the means that I draw even though my parents don't allow me to (a long story,) I tell people what they need to hear not to make them happy but to be honest, I say things that need to be said, I think more about things that make less sense and things that need to be thought about, I take time to help not only myself but other people that can't take care of themselves. What's a life when it is selfish?
I never really understood why I was put on this earth, and really, why any of us were put on this earth. We read and watch about how horrible people are treating each other everywhere around us, all around the world, and I personally feel like this whole existance is meaningless. Here we are, survival of the fittest, all searching for a high that will take us to new heights, a high that will find us happiness. But we never find that height until we die.
What I find meaningless is the fact that we are naturally attention seekers. I find it meaningless to try to impress people in order to become the popular attraction, especially by doing stupid stuff. I have a few examples of attention craving-
1. Young girls that dress up in revealing outfits. It is obviously done to catch the attention and to arouse older men.
2. Smoking pot, underage drinking, all sorts of braindead drugs..etc. Yeah some people do it for an emotional release and a temporary high, but it all starts out as fitting in and doing what everyone else is. That's where it starts. Regret is where it ends.
3. The whole "MTV look" at the world. We are constantly taught that real life is like Real World. Thus kids my age and younger are starving to get attention from being the sexiest, the strongest, the toughest, the cutest, the skinniest, the buffest, the funniest...etc. You don't see any good, solid people with brains on the Real World. All those reality shows are about is gossip, sex, partying..etc. And You know what...it's not all bad until we let our teens watch that and soak it in. What are they going to want to do after watching the Real World? People on shows like that are role models, so where are the good role models?
It's such a sad fate to see someone my age or younger, or older for that matter, fall into such a meaningless lifestyle, just craving for that next mental, physical, emotional high that everyone seems to be looking for. But living a full, total lifestyle that isn't so destructive will actually keep that high on a medium scale.
Because there isn't such a thing as a total high.
So to wrap it up.
I think a meaningless life is based on the person living it. Happiness in a healthy way, caring for people in order to create happiness in other lives, generosity both physically and mentally, freedom in spirit, a clean conscience, just being happy in a nice, secure way and to be able to help people as you complete the steps in your life.
That's meaningful.
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The Darker the Sky--
The Brighter the Stars-
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russ
Promising
Supreme Hero
blah, blah, blah
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posted August 09, 2006 06:56 PM |
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I think I am in a similar situation, Milena. Work + commuting takes 10-11 hours. I don't sleep much, but I think it is very unhealthy to sleep 1-7 hours per night, so I am planning to up it to 9. After that I won't have much time for myself either (but at least I won't be a walking zombie during the day due to the lack of sleep). If you count in Thai Boxing and running that I do to keep myself in shape and also as means of personal development, I'll end up with even less time than you have.
I see very few people who are truly happy in their marriage. In many marriages people don't even like each other any more and stay together because of kids or because they are too used to being married and/or don't expect to find someone else. I am very scared of that, I don't want this for myself, so I am not planning to jump into a serious relationship without much thought.
What is it to starve yourself with diets just to look pretty so that your BF wouldn't abandon you?
Actually, this is one point where I partially disagree with you. I think it is important to keep yourself together, especially once you are married. I have no idea why people think that it is ok to gain 50kg of weight only a few years through the marriage. Of course, you can't stay perfect and expect other people to do the same, but IMHO you definitely should look after yourself and to... how should I put it? "to keep going forward"? (as opposed to limiting yourself to say, looking after kids and watching TV 24/7).
Are those men and women over a hundred years old with health issues and deceased family having a doubled life or is half nonetheless? And how about those promiment people like Jesus and the saints who died before their reached their middle age? Their natural life was halved but was because of their deeds actually doubled?
If I am 100 years and I can't take a dump by myself, I'd rather die while I am still healthy at 80 I don't think that carrying along as a useless vegetable adds anything to your "life".
So, as you may have guessed, I don't consider existing same as living I am still looking for the answers myself. If you find them - let me know 
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friendofgunnar
Honorable
Legendary Hero
able to speed up time
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posted August 09, 2006 07:30 PM |
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Humans need to feel like they are making progress in their life. Even if our lot is better than 95 percent of the people on earth if we don't feel our life is improving some way then we begin to feel listless and unanchored. Usually the "getting better" is attached to the ideas like having a nicer place to live, getting a better car, advancing to a new job position with more prestige, or even starting your own business.
One thing I can endorse heartily though is living near to your job. I'm only about seven or eight minutes away from mine and I love all the extra time in the day that gives me 
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Celfious
Promising
Legendary Hero
From earth
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posted August 09, 2006 07:34 PM |
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Edited by Celfious at 19:38, 09 Aug 2006.
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having high level rich characters in several mmorpgs, where having such a character in one of them makes you followed by noobs everywhere.
Why? Can you kill dragons in real life? Giants? goblins?
Can you cook lobsters, fish them, and even cook 1000s a day? Is there such a material on this so called great world, called Dragon???
Can you jump above buildings, and hack health for yourself and friends, and hurt those against you? no
and the list goes on.
(im only half way serious, atleast halfway.)
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What are you up to
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russ
Promising
Supreme Hero
blah, blah, blah
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posted August 09, 2006 07:48 PM |
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Quote:
One thing I can endorse heartily though is living near to your job. I'm only about seven or eight minutes away from mine and I love all the extra time in the day that gives me
Oh, man! I remember living in downtown 5 mins away from my job. I used my spare time to get drunk almost every day at the nearby bars without having to get up early for work the next day 
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Lady_Milena
Honorable
Known Hero
Grannie Sweet Cheeks
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posted August 09, 2006 09:30 PM |
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Interesting replies, thank you Ruby, FOG, Russ, Nidhgrin (and everyone else I missed).
My own line of thought was more centered not around lifestyle issues but around the dilemma of living vs not living (ie being dead). Like... for example atm I make enough money to support me and have a decent life, financially. But what do I spend my money on? Food to take to work and medicine basically. Because I have only one day off and when it comes I want to crash in bed and sleep I don't even have the time to spend that money on the clothes I desperately need. So when I go back home, I talk to people online and just fancy we could be out together having a drink. I'm celibate too :-P I'd be thinking about this, inevitably.
This pretty much what machines are made to be: having a set schedule, performing tasks with perfection; they need to be powered to perform and then at some point they're too old to function, so they're discarded, replaced with new ones. Machines are mindless and mechanical. It seems to me machines and people have a lot in common.
There is no one home to greet me at the door, be happy I'm home and when I go to bed, I go in an empty bed.
So what do you guys think - does not having children making someone's life meaningless? Or if you're unhappy all your life, does that make it meaningless too?
____________
God does not need exist to save us...
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kookastar
Honorable
Legendary Hero
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posted August 09, 2006 10:01 PM |
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Is your life meaningful?
I think that we need to feel that there is some purpose in our lives, for it to be 'meaningful'. For me this purpose is bound by our interactions with others, or through our own struggles acting as an inspiration/ motivation to others. Let me explain...
I believe that everyone mets and interacts because they have a lesson to learn or to teach each other - or they have something to give them at the time - support, challenge, love. This can be as simple as someone smiling at you at the bus stop, or as complex as a relationship.
Our lives are a web of these moments, our own choices - the life we build is a response to all the intrinsic and extrinsic factors - is the purpose. GAH I just woke up  Let me get this straight.
I believe everyone's life is meaningful no matter what they do or do not do because of the way it affects others - no matter how small. We are like the cells of a body - each has a purpose to serve. Man blahblah. {I think I will edit this later...}
I do not have children, and most likely never will have the opportunity because of choices made by me and other factors. Does this make my life meaningless - no, of course not. Would having children allow me to make a greater impact on someone's life - many other lives - probably. Would the child impact on my life - definately But there are other ways to give and love and share, and LIVE.
I am coming back when I have my wits about me
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friendofgunnar
Honorable
Legendary Hero
able to speed up time
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posted August 10, 2006 01:29 AM |
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Binabik
Responsible
Legendary Hero
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posted August 10, 2006 02:30 AM |
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Milena, have you ever heard of the "tough love" approach? Well, I'm not going to go that far, but I'm not going to attempt to be gentle either. I don't believe sympathy and positive thinking does any good, especially in the long run. Positive thinking might work for people who are already positive people. For the rest of us, positive thinking is not reality. Truthful thinking and harsh honesty about yourself and the world around you is reality. The real world and the real self comes with thorns. Accept that.
Reading your posts, my opinion is that you set your expectations too high. You want to make that giant leap from depression to happiness. You know what? That's not going to happen, it's just not reality. I'm sorry if that's harsh, but it's the truth. Yes, SOME people might make that leap in their lives, but they are far from typical.
So what's in between depression and happiness? I would call it contentment. So what is contentment? More than anything else it's the acceptance of reality, the acceptance of your life and the world around you. It's saying the world and yourself are not perfect, they aren't the way they "should be". But it's admitting that's just the way it is.
It's common, probably normal for young adults to look at the world and realize, "Hey, that's not right. It's not the way it should be. Why can't people just get along? Why does there have to be wars? Why do I have to spend all my time working just to survive, when I'd rather [insert youthful dreams here]?" There's not a person alive who knows the answers to those questions. Maybe the only half way valid answer is "that's just the way it is". That's called accepting reality.
But, but, but, it's wrong! I don't want it to be that way! I don't want to live in "that" world! Why can't it be the way it "should be"?
But nothing. Thinking like that leads to depression.
"Doctor, it hurts when I do this."
"So stop doing it."
Milena, stop looking at what is not, and start looking at what is. I'm not going to tell you to look at what's good in the world, or what's good about your life. Other's have done that. Does it do you any good when people tell you that? Do you actually look at those good things? Does it help? Maybe, but for how long? How long does it distract you before you start seeing what's wrong in your life again? Distraction is all it is. Distraction is a short term treatment of the symptoms, but does nothing about the underlying problem.
So if thinking about the bad in your life is painful. And thinking about the good is only a short term distraction. What's left? The answer is acceptance of reality.
When you are in a depression cycle, what are you depressed about? Is it one thing? Or is it everything combined? Is it like a painful bruise that keeps getting hit again and again so it never heals? Are the individual bumps on your bruise really that painful? Or is the real pain because the bruise never goes away, because you just want some relief, just for a little while?
It's not really the bumps that cause the pain. It's the way you react to them that causes pain. You don't accept them. It's the non-acceptance that causes the pain. You always want better. You are always comparing what is, to what should be, or what you want it to be. You don't want to put in 66 hour weeks just for survival. 66 hour weeks doesn't cause depression by itself. It's your non-acceptance of things that causes the depression.
But working 66 hour weeks doesn't give enough time for yourself to heal the bruises? Maybe that's true, but you don't want the working hours to add to the bruises either. Not accepting it adds to the bruises.
Life seems like a machine? Yes, it is like a machine. We are animals, and like animals, we spend much of our lives dedicated to survival. We go to work, buy groceries, take showers and brush our teeth. We sleep a lot, we eat, we clean the house. But a lot of people have time to relax and do things they want? That’s true, but it's not true for you. Maybe that's not a very nice thing to say. It might not be nice, but it's the truth, right? I repeat again, accept it. That's the first step toward contentment.
Quote:
My own line of thought was more centered not around lifestyle issues but around the dilemma of living vs not living (ie being dead)
I'm not going to say something stupid like "don't do it" or "you're being selfish, think about others." I will tell you it's not the best option though, but you already know that.
I'm in a cave. It's dark in here. It's oh so dark. Why can't there be light? Why can't I find my way out? I've tried, but I can't find the way out. It's so dark. Please let there be some light, just a little, just so I know it's there. Oh, the pain. I can't stand the pain. Oh dear god it hurts. I can't do it, I just can't do it. I've tried and I can't.....NO NO NO NO NOOOOOOO! Please let me find the light! Please stop the pain! I've tried that passage, it was a dead end. I've tried them all...all dead ends. I don't know which way to turn. Oh the pain, make it stop, just make the pain stop. PLEEEEASE MAKE IT STOP!!! Panic. This direction, that direction, all dead ends. Oh, it's so dark. Please just a little light. Just a tiny pinprick of light. I want it. I need it. I can't live without it. I know it has to be there, but I just can't find it.....or maybe it's not really there.....maybe it doesn't really exist. I can't do it, I can't keep going. I just want the pain to end. SCREAMS!!!! The agony, the torture, the pure fires of hell. Why me? Why me? What did I do wrong to deserve this? NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!! What's this? A knife. I can end it now. I can get rid of the pain. It's SOOOOOO bad, it hurts so much. But I don't want it to end this way! I want to live! I want to be normal. I want to be happy. But oh the pain. I can't stand the pain. I can stop it now. But I don't want to. Yes I do. I just want the pain to end. Oh Please Please Please just a tiny bit of light. The light is life, it's MY life. I don't want to die. There must be another way!!!!! THERE HAS TO BE ANOTHER WAY!!!!! I have no tears left. I've used them all. The fight, the struggle, it takes so much out of me. I just don't have the energy to keep going. Please let it be easy! Please let it be calm. Please let it be painless! NOOOOOOOOOO!!!! NOT THAT WAY!!!!! NO NO NO NO NOOOOOOOO!!!!!
That was my cave Milena. Is it yours too? That was thirty years ago. I'm still alive. I found my way out of the cave of darkness. The direction out isn't actions you take, it isn't changes in your life. You've already tried that haven't you? The direction out is time. You might not see the light, but it's there. Milena, IT IS THERE. The answer is time. I won't lie to you and say it could be next week, or next month, or even next year. But it's there.
You've made it this far, so I know you are strong. You have to be strong a little longer. One day at a time. And in the meantime, accept what you have, who you are, and the world around you. That will go a long way toward finding your way out.
Failures hurt. Don't set yourself up for failure by setting your expectations too high. When people give you all kinds of advice, I understand the meaning of "I can't do it, that might work for you, but it doesn't work for me." Maybe it's the "I can't do it" that's the hardest part of all. Accept that you can't do it, it's OK. You are who you are. You have your own strengths and weaknesses. You're strong or you wouldn't be here. Don't set lofty goals like happiness. That's too big a step from where you are right now. Aim for contentment and acceptance of your life and who you are. That's the first step.
Just hang in there and let time do it's thing. Maybe you can't see it, but the light is there. OK?
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russ
Promising
Supreme Hero
blah, blah, blah
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posted August 10, 2006 05:27 PM |
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Wow! That post was just plain depressing.
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Celfious
Promising
Legendary Hero
From earth
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posted August 11, 2006 05:37 PM |
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Quote:
having high level rich characters in several mmorpgs, where having such a character in one of them makes you followed by noobs everywhere.
and or being a musician of some sort being a bad guy
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What are you up to
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Lady_Milena
Honorable
Known Hero
Grannie Sweet Cheeks
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posted August 11, 2006 11:33 PM |
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Binabik,
I think you and a few other members completely missed the point of my post. I am not asking anyone if my life is meaningful or not. That's really not up to anybody in this community to judge, no? I am also not stating that I'm about to commit suicide!!! If I had a remote idea to make a point about it in HC, I would have posted in Suicides, another thread actually started by moi.
I thought it's obvious why I touched the topic. I tend to be very emotional in general which makes it hard for me to make an unbiased judgement at times. I am perfectly aware of this, so instead of drawing immediate conclusions, I actually ask other people about their opinions. I usually tend to listen to them, especially because I ask with the intention to listen.
My personal experience is actually of little importance. The point is, we all have difficulties and we deal with crap on a daily basis but people want to live despite that. The question here is, what makes life so precious to be worth living? The work-sleep-eat pattern is so... primitive. It must be something above physical survival that gives life a meaning. I'm curious to see which aspect of it others would point out. Many say the biggest achievement in the lives is having children. What if you don't? Does dying without leaving progeny make your existence quite like wiped writing on a chalk board?
I don't like the idea of being a machine at all. This to me implies perfection but it makes up for lack of brain and emotions. You can toss creativity in the same pile too. Machines have no dreams. They are made to serve, then be discarded. I don't want to be a machine because without a heart and a mind, there would be no life in me at all.
Actually I do feel something's grossly missing from my life and I guess it leaked in my first post... I don't want the whole story coming down to me and having others pat my shoulder. This belongs to Downhill too. I'm looking for opinions. The rest is to be sorted out on PM. :-P
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God does not need exist to save us...
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Seitzembolus
Tavern Dweller
Writer
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posted August 14, 2006 05:44 AM |
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I spent 2 years of my life wandering aimlessly battling schizophrenia, and spent the 3rd year getting treatments. Now I’ve reached a neutral zone where I can cope with the negative symptoms but still can’t cope with people. It’s been 5 years now, and I can still remember playing Heroes before the **** hit the fan. That's my life story, not meaningful whatsoever. I’m just a figure that will someday die, and I’ve come to except it.
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Celfious
Promising
Legendary Hero
From earth
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posted August 14, 2006 04:56 PM |
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Edited by Celfious at 15:11, 15 Aug 2006.
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ill be honest, they dont know what to call me, Seitzembolus but i was considered borderline schizo but anyways i would serve god to the end of the earth in any and all fasions if he would just tell me grr... she maybe, it whatever.
(ps I wrote this post in my last minute at a library
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What are you up to
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russ
Promising
Supreme Hero
blah, blah, blah
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posted August 14, 2006 05:35 PM |
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Ok, those aren't exactly MY thoughts, but I think they are related to this topic.
Quote:
Many say the biggest achievement in the lives is having children.
Ok, this kind of reminded me of Hinduism (FYI: I am not very religious and I am not trying to convert you to a religion, but I find learning about different religions and philosophies very interesting).
If I remember correctly, Hinduism claims that there are 3 major paths a human can take to make their lives fulfilling. I forgot the 1-st one . The second one is to dedicate yourself to yoga (which I would assume should lead you to spiritual enlightenment ). The third one is... you've guessed it! To marry and to raise kids without concerning yourself too much with the meaning of life. Even though it may sound too simplistic, the third path is considered just as important as the first two.
Quote:
They are made to serve, then be discarded. I don't want to be a machine because without a heart and a mind, there would be no life in me at all.
I am not sure if I, or someone else have already mentioned this... according to Buddism, pretty much everything we see around us is not permanent. Our health, our posessions, our loved ones, our own lives will eventually go. So, if we "live as a machine" and then "get discarded", our work will eventually get discarded as well and there won't be anything left. So, Buddism is centered around trying to find something that is permanent. Something that will always be there, no matter if you are young or old, rich or poor, famous or not famous.
Anyways, that's just some "food for thought", I guess
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