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| Thread: Heroes in Combat |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 · NEXT» |
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ThE_HyDrA
Admirable
Famous Hero
The Leader of all Hydras
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posted September 29, 2001 04:03 AM |
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Heroes in Combat
We have all been anxiuosly awaiting the arrival of Heroes of Might and Magic 4.
There have been many good points, and we at Hroes community have discussed just about all of the topics in Heroes 4.
In has many new features, some good, some bad, like the controversial Dragon Golem, or only 4 levels and 6 towns.
But i feel the 'Heroes' aspect has been left out or HEROES of Might and Magic IV.
The game is just not about the creatures, it is also about the Heroes.
So with all the new features added to Heroes IV, I beleive that Heroes in Combat is really important and pivotal.
The Heroes in combat situations i think have been a plus. In Heroes 3, the Heroes would just stand on the sidelines, atop there horse, and pump a fist in the air once the opponents creature died, or cast spells by moving their hands. Back then, you may aswell have called in Monsters of Might and Magic.
But now the Heroes are involved in Heroes of Might and Magic IV, it has added extra gameplay.
FACTS ABOUT HEROES IN BATTLE SO FAR
All Heroes gain 20 Hp when they raise a level.
Barbarian and Barbarianess gain 65Hp, but cannot cast any spells.
Heroes are able to move freely around the battlefields, and attack creatures with spells or their weapons.
The Heroes in H4, i beleive will start of not being a match for a level 4, instead a level 1.
But luckily, as they gain experience, therefore levels and Hit Points, they could probably beat a Level 4, once they reach level 40 or something around there.
It would also be an added bonus if the heroes could cast spells AND do another physical attack on the same turn. This would make the heroes more useful at their lower levels, when they haven't had time to develop useful spells and effective attacks.
I think 3DO and NWC have made an excellent choice, making heroes stand about and actually do something more constuctive and helpful to the army. It is added gameplay, and would be more like a strategy game. We can finally now call it Heroes of Might and Magic.
What are your thoughts and feelings about this drastic change, probably the most drastic, with the five. magic alignments. Personally, i think Heroes in combat is and excellent idea!
I can't wait for Heroes IV to come out. 
Hopefully sometime soon! 
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"Dragons may breathe fire, but Hydras have many heads." - The Creed of Hydras
"As the Dragon drew its breath, the Hydra pounced, swiftly but powerfully, and the Dragon was defeated.”
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Lith-Maethor
Honorable
Legendary Hero
paid in Coin and Cleavage
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posted September 29, 2001 04:58 AM |
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I just can't wait for HoMM4 too
...um, I have the impression that heroes will be equal to a level two creature not a level one... propably after a few levels a hero will be able to slay a few level fours by himself...
...won't the barbarians be able to learn all magic schools? they just start with none...
BTW: the whole "Heroes in Combat" feature is perhaps the most signifficant change in HoMM4, along with the five schools of magic and the town aligned to each...
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You are suffering from delusions of adequacy.
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ThE_HyDrA
Admirable
Famous Hero
The Leader of all Hydras
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posted September 29, 2001 08:01 AM |
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Quote:
...won't the barbarians be able to learn all magic schools? they just start with none...
I'm pretty sure they'll be able to learn them from other castles, because the heroes will probably be able to purchase spell books from other castles like the Asylum and Preserve.
I think the Stronghold castle is unable to build a Mage Guild, but the doesn't matter. Wicked creatures.
It still may matter, though, it depends if the spells are really powerful and effective, or if they're all weak creature enhancing spells, like bless and bloodlust.
I don't think heroes will be powerful enough to conquer a level 4 after a few levels, since they gain 65 of 20 Hp per level, and they start with about 40 Hp anyway.
Although it is not finalised, a hero with about 200 HP could not beat a Black Dargon with 1100 Hp. (But i think it is extremely unlikely for the Black Dragon to have that many and be separated so much from another l4, like an Archangel, which has about 500.
But i do agree heroes will be the strongest in the game when they reach higher levels. It will be a mix, from my understandings.
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"Dragons may breathe fire, but Hydras have many heads." - The Creed of Hydras
"As the Dragon drew its breath, the Hydra pounced, swiftly but powerfully, and the Dragon was defeated.”
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Jenova
Famous Hero
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posted September 29, 2001 08:40 AM |
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I think the Barbs will be able to cast spells because otherwise, with 5 primary skill slots, they would have one slot free, unable to learn an alignment of magic..
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Djive
Honorable
Supreme Hero
Zapper of Toads
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posted September 29, 2001 09:59 PM |
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Heroes will be important in Heroes 4...
Quote:
FACTS ABOUT HEROES IN BATTLE SO FAR
All Heroes gain 20 Hp when they raise a level.
Barbarian and Barbarianess gain 65Hp, but cannot cast any spells.
Heroes are able to move freely around the battlefields, and attack creatures with spells or their weapons.
I haven't seen any numbers on this. From where did you get them?
I'd say that very few conclusion can be drawn from just having numbers from a level-up, because we often know nothing about the Hero's Toughness level, and any artifacts they may curry that boosts Health. Fiona's upgrade screenshot, she had 600 hp and she was level 10 Reaver. I believe Hero start values and upgrade values are on of the things that are being tuned, and they may very well change before the game is released.
Quote:
The Heroes in H4, i beleive will start of not being a match for a level 4, instead a level 1.
A level 1 hero would be equal if not slightly better than a level 2 monster.
Quote:
But luckily, as they gain experience, therefore levels and Hit Points, they could probably beat a Level 4, once they reach level 40 or something around there.
If the Fiona upgrade shot is anything to go by they will reach this point long before level 40. More like level 20 or thereabouts. And also depending on which skills the Hero has.
Quote:
It would also be an added bonus if the heroes could cast spells AND do another physical attack on the same turn.
No thanks, that would make them overpowered. If implemented then creatures should have the same possibility too.
Overall, I feel that including Heroes on the battlefield is a good idea.
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"A brilliant light can either illuminate or blind. How will you know which until you open your eyes?"
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Dajek
Known Hero
Psychedelic Knight
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posted September 29, 2001 11:10 PM |
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Hey wher can You look how many hit points the creatures have?
PS. Is it equal to cast magic or have 45 more hit points per level?
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ThE_HyDrA
Admirable
Famous Hero
The Leader of all Hydras
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posted September 30, 2001 02:09 AM |
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Quote:
PS. Is it equal to cast magic or have 45 more hit points per level?
Hmm..... Yes very good thought there, Dajek.
It really depends on how much damage or how effective the spells are going to be.
If they are similar to H3, the Barbarians will have a massive advantage, they could have 450 more HP by level ten!!
I hope the spells are more powerful than in H3, so it becomes more balanced and even. Hopefully it doesn't turn out like H2, in terms of strength. 
In Answer to Djive's question:
I can't remember exactly, but i'm pretty sure i got it from www.hmm4.com It is quite a good site.
To Djive:
I do not beleive that the heroes will be too powerful if they cast a spell and inflict physical damage on the same turn. Remember, in H3, They were able to cast a spell, and the creature was able to attack. This will also make them a match for the Barbarians, who gain 45 more HP evry level than other heroes.
I hope more information about this topic is released soon.
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"Dragons may breathe fire, but Hydras have many heads." - The Creed of Hydras
"As the Dragon drew its breath, the Hydra pounced, swiftly but powerfully, and the Dragon was defeated.”
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titan
Known Hero
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posted September 30, 2001 02:17 AM |
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Nice info The_Hydra
do u also have info about creatures in HoMM IV such as HP/Attack etc.
and i heard creatures can cast magic
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 If we ever will time travel in the future . Why haven't people from the future visited us yet
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ThE_HyDrA
Admirable
Famous Hero
The Leader of all Hydras
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posted September 30, 2001 03:37 AM |
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Quote:
Nice info The_Hydra
do u also have info about creatures in HoMM IV such as HP/Attack etc.
and i heard creatures can cast magic
For the first question, not any more than Wyvern has given except.....
If you go to the screenshots page of Hmm4.com, you will find a page of Asylum creatures, showing their HP, attack, defense, everything. The only thing is, you can't make it out!!!! You can look at the numbers though, to see how many digits there are. Here's the exact page: http://www.hmm4.com/screens/main.htm
The screenshot i'm talking about is under no category. Just as you enter you can see it.
Second Question: Yes!!!!!!!!! That's right, Titan. I' got this information from Celestial Heavens unleashed.
It says that one of the 2 level 3 creatures can cast a spell. In the Asylum, my guess is that it would be the efreet. In Academy, the Genie. (These are the logical choices made by me)
Onto Heroes: The heroes seem to be very well balanced to me. They start off rather weakly, then when they start to gain levels, become more menacing for higher level creatures like the Black Dragon, Hydra, Phoenix, etc.
The Heroes are now a very important part of Heroes of Might and Magic IV, which they should be.
Not only will we be talking about our favourtie creatre, now our favourite Hero too. Also custom heroes sounds like a good idea too.
Glad to be of service!
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"Dragons may breathe fire, but Hydras have many heads." - The Creed of Hydras
"As the Dragon drew its breath, the Hydra pounced, swiftly but powerfully, and the Dragon was defeated.”
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Jenova
Famous Hero
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posted September 30, 2001 08:31 AM |
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You should probably have two heroes in each army, a strong spellcaster and a barbarian. That is unless EXP get shared evenly amongst them..
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ThE_HyDrA
Admirable
Famous Hero
The Leader of all Hydras
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posted October 01, 2001 06:14 AM |
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Quote:
You should probably have two heroes in each army, a strong spellcaster and a barbarian. That is unless EXP get shared evenly amongst them..
I think you can have more than 2 heroes per army, they will be classified like a creature, i think!
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"Dragons may breathe fire, but Hydras have many heads." - The Creed of Hydras
"As the Dragon drew its breath, the Hydra pounced, swiftly but powerfully, and the Dragon was defeated.”
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StormWarning
Promising
Famous Hero
Archmage of Thunder
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posted October 01, 2001 10:22 PM |
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Actually, Nightmares can cast Fear (make opponent lose turn?). I don't think Efreet will be spellcasters, but I hope they keep Fire Shield as a special ability. That's the one best thing about Inferno in H3. Stronghold's T-Bird might be able to call lightning instead of an attack, but for other towns I don't know who the spellcasters would be.
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The calm before the storm is about to end.
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LordTitan
Famous Hero
Hit Dice: 76d12+608 HP
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posted October 02, 2001 02:04 AM |
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Yes you can have more than one hero in one army.
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Spaek the Titan
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ThE_HyDrA
Admirable
Famous Hero
The Leader of all Hydras
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posted October 02, 2001 10:54 AM |
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Quote:
Actually, Nightmares can cast Fear (make opponent lose turn?). I don't think Efreet will be spellcasters, but I hope they keep Fire Shield as a special ability. That's the one best thing about Inferno in H3. Stronghold's T-Bird might be able to call lightning instead of an attack, but for other towns I don't know who the spellcasters would be.
I actually do think that the efreet will cast a spell.If you remember in H3, the efreets were sworn enemies of the genie, a regular and certain spellcaster. So the efreet must be a kind of evil genie, which suggests it casts a spell. And yes, the Nightmares can cast fear, but from what i've heard, it is called terror ability, but anyway; i don't think it is a spell. In HOMM4, all creatures have a special ability, and this is the nightmare's. I think the Nightmare will be more powerful than the Efreet, so you have to give them some privelages, don't you think????
Here's my list of spellcasters: (Again chosen by logical deciesions)
ASYLUM: Efreet
ACADEMY: Genie
HAVEN: Zealot
PRESERVE: Not sure, but I presume Satyr
STRONGHOLD: Obviously Ogre Magi
NECROPOLIS: Again, not sure, but i think Venom Spawn.
Wasn't this thread about 'Heroes in Combat' anyway?? Well i'll get onto that then.
Heroes being classified as monsters is a good point for me. The Heroes always seemed a bit left out in the previous series, and never played a real major role.
But heroes as creatures means they can also get killed on the battlefield, and you won't be able to hire them again. But you still can surrender, so that is OK.
I now wonder what moves, and how powerful the moves will be. I hope, that they will be corresponding with the hit points it has. Like the creatures. If a hero has high HP, but low damage, something is wrong.
But in the case of spellcaster heroes like the Warlocks and Sorcerers, this may have to be the case. But i doubt that because they would have low HP, and most of their damage will be inflicted by spells.
Probably the most likely to have that sort of deformaty is the Barbarian. The Barbarians may have no armour, but wield massive weapons. (That is the other way around, but still it is the same message) It is OK, because that is how they appear. But if a Hero has much armour, and massive weapons, and have a defense of 50 and an attack of 20, i would start asking questions.
There are also other possibilites for the heroes. Will spells be more effective when used by a different type of hero. For example: A Warlock uses and Armageddon spell, and it does 300 Damage to all creatures on the battlefield. A Barbarian then uses the same spell, and it still does 300 damage. If 3DO released a game with stats like that, i'd start to worry. Everyone knows that Warlocks are more proficient spell casters than Barbarians.
3DO should divise a method like this one.
Warlocks, Wizards, and all other spellcasters do maximum damage with their order of spells. (Life, Death Chaos etc.)
Spellcasters of different orders, do 3/4 damage.
Same Hero of that group, say a ranger from Preserve, may do 1/2 damage of of their order (in this case, life)
The might hero, if performing a different order, will do only 1/3 damage.
This, or something like this method would make might and Magic heroes even, provided the same method is used against Magic heroes for inflicting physical damage with their limbs or a weapon.
If Heroes of Might and Magic IV is something like this, it will be a bestseller for sure. 3DO said they were trying to implement an element of truth, well, they can prove it by doing something like this, which i'm sure they will.
____________
"Dragons may breathe fire, but Hydras have many heads." - The Creed of Hydras
"As the Dragon drew its breath, the Hydra pounced, swiftly but powerfully, and the Dragon was defeated.”
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StillShady
Adventuring Hero
Your Ultimate Slayer
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posted October 03, 2001 01:24 AM |
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NECROPOLIS: Again, not sure, but i think Venom Spawn.
I think venom spawn is a ranged attacker!
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Slayin' all evil for good!
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titan
Known Hero
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posted October 03, 2001 04:36 AM |
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Edited By: titan on 2 Oct 2001
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here r 3 Heroes on the battlefield
And u c the dragon golem ( i think it looks pretty cool on the battlefield but i still dont like golems )
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If we ever will time travel in the future . Why haven't people from the future visited us yet
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StillShady
Adventuring Hero
Your Ultimate Slayer
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posted October 03, 2001 04:41 AM |
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The dragon golem looks really dumb! It looks like a robot! 
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Slayin' all evil for good!
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titan
Known Hero
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posted October 03, 2001 04:46 AM |
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noo it in the battlefield it looks like a spider
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If we ever will time travel in the future . Why haven't people from the future visited us yet
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StillShady
Adventuring Hero
Your Ultimate Slayer
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posted October 03, 2001 04:50 AM |
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Yeah! It looks like a spider with only 4 legs!
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Slayin' all evil for good!
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Jenova
Famous Hero
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posted October 03, 2001 07:40 AM |
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I for one, protest the existence of this machine, and will never build one in the game. I don't expect it to be removed from the game, but I will always take the alternative level 4 creature over it, no matter what.
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