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| Thread: Hero's Attack On Units |  This thread is pages long: 1 2 · NEXT» |
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dfortae
Known Hero
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posted December 03, 2006 12:32 AM |
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Hero's Attack On Units
What does everyone think about a hero's attack on units? I personally think it works poorly. The fact that they do so much more damage to the higher tier units is weird. One whack on a treant does 188 damage vs like 50 against tier 1 or tier 2 units.
It really makes high tier units less important because the hero can easily take them out toward the end of the battle... What does everyone think?
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Eldgiffen
Adventuring Hero
NobleGriffen Master Of Birds
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posted December 03, 2006 01:40 AM |
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I dont really like it...the heroes hit kinda low and its useless to do it only for spell casting i guess
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted December 03, 2006 11:20 AM |
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yeah, heroes are level7 killers. Especially demonlords with their improved marks. But don't be so quick, hero attack is an "action of last resort" because casing spells and using skills is a better option. Perfectly ok for me. Perhaps if there will be an orc town, their heroes will have racial and skills tied to melee hero attack. That would be interesting.
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted December 03, 2006 04:06 PM |
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Quote:
yeah, heroes are level7 killers. Especially demonlords with their improved marks. But don't be so quick, hero attack is an "action of last resort" because casing spells and using skills is a better option. Perfectly ok for me. Perhaps if there will be an orc town, their heroes will have racial and skills tied to melee hero attack. That would be interesting.
I think that would be walking the Heroes 4 path (think Combat skill + subs), and we would want to avoid that. I agree that it doesn't make much sense to have a Hero do more damage to a Treant than to a group of Sprites ... A fixed Damage range depending on level + Attack skill + Defence skill of defender might be more intuitive. But I think the current system is not too bad, because it as you say, works as a last resort when you have no more Mana for spells.
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What will happen now?
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted December 03, 2006 05:50 PM |
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Augmenting the damage only has nothing to do with h4(where combat was used mainly to make the patheticaly weak hero more tough to survive more than 1 turn ~~), and it would make just a nice racial for purely-might orientated faction. The barbarians fill in naturally..
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted December 03, 2006 08:02 PM |
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True. I just fear we'll have a solution like in Heroes 4, where a high-level Hero could become a killing machine. Of course, a high-level Warlock already is, and since heroes can't excist without an army, maybe that will not become a real problem.
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What will happen now?
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emilsn
Legendary Hero
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posted December 04, 2006 09:14 AM |
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As you guys says: Last resort thing. i agree, i cast spell and if i run out i hit. But that doesnt happen to often because: they are dead before im out of mana! And they don't do that much dmg? Or maybe i just dont choose Attack that often?
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Doomforge
Admirable
Undefeatable Hero
Retired Hero
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posted December 04, 2006 08:14 PM |
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attack has nothing to do with hero's melee attack.. it depends on stack's tier and hero's level.
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emilsn
Legendary Hero
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posted December 04, 2006 09:44 PM |
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Quote:
attack has nothing to do with hero's melee attack.. it depends on stack's tier and hero's level.
Oh okay... I really havn't put that much though and time into all those little tacticle things...
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feluniozbunio
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted May 12, 2007 11:51 AM |
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In current situation lvl 7's are horribly expensive creatures and each hero has very easy way to kill them with his hero attack which means a lot of wasted money.
Killing only few low lvl creatures only its not good thing either. I had stalled games during siege when my opponent didn't want to leave his castle and i was not able to kill his creatures and had catapult destroyed. we both didn't have any mana and still was having huge armies. Hero attack war was the only way to solve this.
I don't see any good points of current system of hero attack. Ok, it can be used while creeping sometimes. I think it should deal a fixed amount of damage per lvl or be somehow connected to stats of hero and not dependant on hp of target.
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GenieLord
Honorable
Legendary Hero
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posted May 12, 2007 12:16 PM |
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Well, the hero's regular attack is quite weak, comparing to the hero's spells.
It helps mostly in the creeping, when you don't have that stong spells or special abilities, and the creatures are quite weak.
In the latest part of the game, it's quite unuseful; spells' effects are much stonger, and if you want to do damage, you'll probably use a destructive spell.
When to use it?
-When your mana is done, and the special hero's effects can't help you.
-When you need to do a damage, but you have no destructive spells, or weak ones.
-When you have to kill a stack with very low amount of creatures (that blocks your shooters range, for example) and you don't want to waste mana
-When you need to do damage, and you have very low Spell Power (destructive spells will be weak).
-When you need to do damage, but the enemy has immunity to the destructive spells that you have.
-When you need to do damage, but the creature has magic proff.
-In a easy battle, when you just want to keep your mana to the next one.
-In the creeping.
-On a high level stack, that small damage is needed to kill another unit.
-When fight against Undead troops, and you have only Dark spells that most of them don't effect the undeads.
-When you fight against Dwarves that use Rune of Immunity.
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executor
Famous Hero
Otherworldly Ambassador
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posted May 12, 2007 01:20 PM |
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Edited by executor at 15:56, 12 May 2007.
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Well it should be an action of rast resort, but not as imbalanced as it is.
Not only it is a tier7 ultra killer, but also kills tha same amount of units in one tier regardless of their growth. F.eg, at lvl 1 your hero kills 2 assasins and 2 gremlins. This in fact (in my expierience) means assasins/scouts being uber-easy to kill (your hero will masacrate them) in the beginning, while gremlins can be much trouble.
IMO a system of constant damage that ignores defense would be much better.
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Understanding is a three-edged sword.
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dfortae
Known Hero
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posted May 12, 2007 01:32 PM |
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Quote:
Well it should be an action of rast resort, but not as imbalanced as it is.
Not only it is a tier7 ultra killer, but also kills tha same amount of units in one tier regardless of their growth. F.eg, at lvl 1 your hero kills 2 assasins and 2 gremlins. This in fact (in my expierience) means assasins/scouts being uber-easy to kill (your here will masacrate them) in the beginning, while gremlins can be much trouble.
IMO a system of constant damage that ignores defense would be much better.
I agree, constant damage is the best way.
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alcibiades
Honorable
Undefeatable Hero
of Gold Dragons
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posted May 12, 2007 02:24 PM |
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Constant damage is also my best bet, but I'm not sure about the trespassing defence thing - I think it would be only fair that Might Heroes would do more melee damage than Magic Heroes, because Magic Heroes generally will be able to do more spell damage. On the other hand, there is the problem with which property to apply to calculate Hero "Attack" rating, because it not necessarily makes sense to have Heroes with high Attack growth (Demon Lord) do more melee damage than Heroes with high Defence growth (Knight).
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What will happen now?
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TemjinGold
Known Hero
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posted May 12, 2007 02:59 PM |
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We could do like the Ballista and add up Attack and Defense to determine damage.
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Daystar
Honorable
Legendary Hero
Back from the Dead
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posted May 12, 2007 03:23 PM |
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I think it makes sense. Think about it: The one hero does more damage to 100+ units, or to 5 or so. The hero is basically a monster slayer, not an army crusher, both in the reall world and in the game one.
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How exactly is luck a skill?
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PhoenixReborn
Promising
Legendary Hero
Unicorn
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posted May 12, 2007 03:35 PM |
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You can argue implemetation but I like the fact that hero attack is in the game. When I was playing heroes II the other day and ran out of mana I tried to do a hero attack...it gives the hero something to do to be involved instead of sitting there uselessly (I know stats and all that, but this is more fun).
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Bask in the light of my glorious shining unicorn.
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dfortae
Known Hero
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posted May 12, 2007 03:53 PM |
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Quote:
I think it makes sense. Think about it: The one hero does more damage to 100+ units, or to 5 or so. The hero is basically a monster slayer, not an army crusher, both in the reall world and in the game one.
So why does a hero's attack slay a handful of lower level creatures then? If it was intended to be a monster slayer, only 1 would die. It DOESN'T make sense...
Plus, some creatures don't get killed by 1 hit from the hero (Angel), but some do (Treant).
It does not make sense no matter how you look at it.
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feluniozbunio
Promising
Supreme Hero
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posted May 12, 2007 03:54 PM |
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Hero attack is not a bad idea, its just that it kills precious lvl 7's too easily and kills too few low lvl creatures.
On high lvls you can get like 300 dmg to lvl7 and this is Even more than the same hero would pull of with expert destructive magic. Thats definitely too much.
Quote:
Plus, some creatures don't get killed by 1 hit from the hero (Angel), but some do (Treant).
At certail lvl they all get killed. You need to check in manual exact lvl.
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dfortae
Known Hero
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posted May 12, 2007 03:56 PM |
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Quote:
You can argue implemetation but I like the fact that hero attack is in the game. When I was playing heroes II the other day and ran out of mana I tried to do a hero attack...it gives the hero something to do to be involved instead of sitting there uselessly (I know stats and all that, but this is more fun).
No one is arguing that they shouldn't be able to attack. We're saying the damage should be different.
I do like the idea about attack affecting it. But if you treat it like a Ballista, the enemy's defense should also affect it...
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